and they didn't do anything it is hard to understand why they're making concessions rather than consequences. but you're right, like kill the zionists threatening their other classmates. this is not just dangerous for jewish students, although it is, it's also dangerous for all of us like this isn't normal. this isn't what college is supposed to be. and we need to finally get to diminish to remember a small fringe shouldn't ruin the experience for everyone even as we do that, i'll just say, let's keep in mind, we've gotta have fears, hope for these hostages were still being held in gaza, as well as deep compassion for the palestinian civilians who are suffering. >> jonathan greenblatt appreciate you being with us. thank thank you. the news continues. >> the source with kaitlan collins starts now saban, the source tonight. no holds barred. the aftershocks from our extraordinary interview

with trump's attorney general, both vilifying his former boss and also voting for him. and he's far from alone. what are revealing conversation tells us about the state of the race and the. state of the republican party. also a new front and the flash point on college campuses. as protesters are being told tonight, the time is up columbia beginning to suspend students and police in riot gear making hundreds of arrest across the country are source on this movement tonight is michael moore and did a potential trump vice presidential pick just shoot ourselves in the foot. there's who fall out tonight for south dakota governor kristi no matter her story about shooting her puppy on purpose, we're digging into what's bazai behind her latest bizarre defense? i'm kaitlan collins. and this is the source tonight an exclusive window directly

into the disconnect at the heart of our current national politics. a window that was thrown wide open by former attorney general bill barr right here on the source i, think that i've said this all along. if faced with a choice between two people, neither of which i think should be president. i feel it's my duty to pick the person who i think would do the least damage to the contrary and i think trump would do less damage than biden that's the rationale from a former cabinet member who had a front row seat to the turbulent final weeks of the trump administration is donald trump was seeking to overturn the 2020 election results an act the bar himself has described and pretty frank terms before should a noisy aid and it is a horror show. he didn't really appear to care about the facts. someone who engaged in that kind of bullying about a process that is fundamental to our system and to our

self-government it shouldn't be anywhere near the oval office bars justification of his support for trump. >> now, despite what you've just listened to, their can kind of feel like a dizzying about face. but keep in mind that came after this moment when i asked him about trump flat out mocking bar after he said he'd support him in november i have to ask you about something that trump posted about you this week because he responded in response to you saying you vote for the republican ticket wow, former ag bill barr who led a lot of great people down by not investigating voter fraud in our country has just endorsed me for president, despite the fact that i call him, called him week slope so moving, lethargic, got less and lazy based on the fact that i greatly appreciate his wholehearted endorsement i am removing the word lethargic from my statement. thank you. >> bill yeah. >> classic trump funny bars,

personal humiliation, as well as his embrace of trump's autocratic wishes. even the revelation that talk of executions were not rare occurrences inside the trump white house. >> barr told. us all that explains the barrage of headlines you see here launched by that barrier but what also makes it different is from the others that he's done, the one that he did here with us on the source friday night is that we had the opportunity to dig beyond the soundbite, the talking point, and really press mr. bar, whom i should note is one of the few who individuals to ever serve as the nation's chief law enforcement officer twice on how he could vote for trump, given his previous blistering criticism of him. >> and we challenged him on his argument that the biden administration's policies are worse than his former bosses attempts to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power parents are losing the freedom to control their children's education and people can't

speak their mind, but that losing their jobs and things like that this is worse than the mccarthy era. where's that coming from? it's coming from the right. >> those two things that you just noted there you believe are worse than a president of the united states trying to subvert the will of the people by overturning the results don't know. i think i think a country all the things together like we're not enforcing our borders, so we have open borders. we have lawlessness in our cities. we have regulations coming fast and furious. so telling people what kind of stoves they can use and what kinds of cars they have to drive and eliminating cars and so and so forth yeah, those are those are the threats to democracy president biden is not in control of what some school boards across the country, using the administrator argument that the same major changes are being made in our country without without the democratic process and they're being made by bureaucrats in these agencies.

>> yeah. okay. pause. you can not argue that republicans across the country, and i'm doing that as well. my own hometown, there's a huge fight at the library forever, which books kids can read. this is not something that is always fight. do you think there are? >> i don't you think there should be some limits on what people are able to read very young age. >> i just think people look at what you're saying and they don't maybe, maybe even republicans who have concerns about what's happening with school boards or the culture and don't make abortion even don't equate that with, with january 6 and trump's efforts when you told him the election was not stolen and he's still went out there and said it was stolen and let a lot of people to believe that they don't those things aren't equal. it feels like a false equivalency well, i disagree, i think and i think the country is much more susceptible to losing freedoms by the excesses of the left and they have been steadily and that, that's clear people lose their jobs.

>> kids can't speak out in the classroom. they have to go along with what the professor says in order to get good grades and so forth. it's become like nation being directed by progressive elise of course mccarthyism was one of the darkest chapters in american history. >> it's also republican governors who have led the nationwide effort to ban certain topics from classrooms what you agree or disagree with what they're saying at this very moment, students on college campuses across this country are certainly speaking out. we'll talk more about that in a moment. but six months out from a presidential election, mr. bars position is far from the only one in his party. look at this, a new cnn poll shows that 92% republicans believed that trump's first term in office was a success. four criminal indictments later that is actually higher than it was when he left the white house in 2021. look no further than what trump himself is saying tonight touting what he says that the fool and

enthusiastic support of governor ron desantis trump met with desantis and florida yesterday to talk about how he can help with trump's campaign this is the first time they've spoken since desantis dropped out of that ugly primary race. >> but we see this paradox echoed by republican, after republican, the donald trump is to blame for january 6 and everything that entailed in that period. >> if they are still going on to vote to put him back in the oval office. and most certainly they aren't casting their ballots for president joe biden president trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the event of the day that would support the nominee of the party. >> whoever that was and i do. >> you said it is clear the president trump's rhetoric and add actions contributed to the insurrection. the domestic terrorists who attack united states capital must be held accountable and prosecuted. do you stand by that statement

100%. >> i'm going to split the ticket. i'm going to support donald trump. trump is not fit to be president if i could start a nationwide write-in campaign for dick cheney? maybe i should do that we begin with a source tonight, who served in the trump administration alongside bill barr, alyssa farah griffin was the white house communications director, and is now a cnn political commentator. >> and i just wonder what you made of what bill barr had to say i could spend the whole hour unpacking that historic stunning, and bizarre interview with the former attorney general. i want to say one thing. he made this point that in fact the left and joe biden are more dangerous than the right because a talker seas don't emerge from the right. i would point to viktor orban, who donald trump regularly praises bolsonaro and brazil also came from the right. it's an absurd historically inaccurate claim that he's making. but i don't know bill barr. well, i served alongside him. i was in high level meetings with him in the west wing. he matter-of-factly admitted to you that donald trump talked regularly about

executing people? i knew of the one instance i personally witnessed, i had heard of other examples secondhand but he seemed to dismiss it and then goes into this line of like, oh, don't take him literally well, we didn't take them literally when he wanted to steal the election or one hand cited a mob to go to the capital and it turned violent. it's time that people start taking donald trump much more literally at his word i would just also add donald trump has an a masterful job and with i would say, his friends and the right-wing media of painting america as being in this hellscape right now, we can't survive another four years of joe biden. we've survived nine, 11 world war ii economic downturns. i don't like joe biden's policies. that is demonstrably true? the board whether it's the border crime is down republicans were blocking a border bill right now. we can survive bad policies. you cannot necessarily as democracy survive and anti-constitutional president, again, like donald trump. but when he brought up gas stove regulations and truly was legitimately saying that

that is as dangerous as what he personally witnessed and spoke out against an angered trump when he spoke to the associated press and december and said there was no widespread voter fraud here in the honestly, the interview felt like a hostage video i noticed that he was not regularly making eye contact with you, especially when he was making some of the more bizarre claims like gas stoves, it felt like he was kinda clinging to some right-wing talking points that nobody is turning out this election because of electric vehicles or gas stoves, rather than talking about issues that he knows are fundamental. >> donald trump was to fire him, his attorney general had he not step down, you wanted a loyalist in that role who is going to lie about the election and what's going to help them try to carry out overturning it. bill barr knows that. i mean, it's it's frankly disgraceful that he's doing this about face now what you just mentioned there, you posted this last week and said that on an occasion where bill barr was present, you heard donald trump talk about suggesting executing a leaker,

who from the white house we i brought that up with bar and this is what he said. but alyssa farah griffin, who was occasions stricter, posted yesterday and said that you are present at a moment when trump suggested executing the person who leaked information that he went to the white house bunker when those george floyd protests were happening outside the white house do you remember that i remember and being very mad about that, i actually don't remember him saying executing, but i wouldn't dispute it i mean, it doesn't sound the president would lose his temper and say things like that. >> taotie would have actually carried it out. i don't you know, but he would say that on other occasions you said the president had a i think people sometimes took them to literally and he would say things like similar to that in occasions to blow off steam. but i wouldn't take them

literally every time he did it. >> why not? >> because at the end of the de it wouldn't be carried out and you could talk sense just because it's not carried out and you could talk since sen. tim doesn't that still mean that the threat is there? >> no. i mean, i think i don't think the threat is there. i can i the thing that i worry about, president trump is not that he's going to become an autocrat and do those kinds of why not? >> because i don't think he would vote the end of the day. what's the basis for that? that that understanding that you have well i? just your own hunch that's my feeling having worked for him, seen him in action. >> i don't think he would actually go and kill political rivals and things like that. >> i mean, are people that desensitized and the trump administration that he was like, oh, it's just blowing off steam i mean, maybe in the moment, but with the hindsight of history, i mean, and the moment by the way, he was sitting to the left of the resolute desk. >> bill barr was in the

conversation was about invoking the insurrection act to try to quell domestic let's take protests. bill barr having been attorney general during rodney king, was talking the former president out of it, and he then launched into a tirade saying we needed to execute somebody who leaked this. it's treason. i don't know how he couldn't remember that moment. i think that that's lawyer speak for i don't want to answer it, but that's even more shocking if it was something that he didn't even see a significant and didn't file away history. >> i remember that day because that was when trump was upset that someone had leaked that. that's why trump did that walk across the white house grounds where they cleared the protesters. he held the bible upside down. i remember all of that i mean, we were told by sources. i think kevin liptak reported trump did that because he was embarrassed that it had been reported. he went to the bunker very much so when there were two at least a dozen other people in that meeting who witnessed that same statement by the former president let's farah griffin. >> thank you for your perspective on that also here tonight, as we were talking about this bill barr, at one point in that interview said that the biden administration he believes is a real threat to

democracy. my next source is republican, who might disagree with that. adam kinzinger investigated that threat to democracy around january 6, as a member of the house select committee and is now also a cnn senior political commentator. congressman just i want you to listen to how bar tried to equate the threat that was posed by that a period of leading up to january 6 with the policies that are being implemented by president biden how can you equate the border is a real issue. i've been to the border. no one's denying that. but is that the same thing? is what you said recently, which was that? the conduct that was involved with donald trump, you said trying to subvert and prevent the progress, the execution of probably the most important process we have, which is the peaceful transfer of power after an election. name one thing that biden has done that's worse than that i think he's hello, administration is a disaster for the company is worse than subverting the peaceful transfer of power in did he succeed? only because

vice president mike pence and now the people who are lining up the vichy again say that they will not do what mike pence did. >> look, i was very loud and saying i thought it was a whole episode was shameful. and i'm very troubled by and that's why it's not an easy decision. but i think when you have a hobson's choice, you have to pick the lesser of two evils. >> you don't see this is the definition of putting party over country no no, not because unfortunately, we're having we're in a situation where the policy differences between the two parties are very, very vast. >> there's a huge gulf. and so in that trump can achieve the policies i think he's gonna have a harder time shaving them, but you're voting for so just to be clear, you're voting for someone who you believe tried to subvert the peaceful transfer of power that can even achieve his own policies that lied about the election even after his attorney general told him that the election wasn't stolen. and as the former chief law

enforcement in this country, you're going to vote for for someone who is facing 88 criminal counts look, the ada criminal counts, a lot of those are ten of them are accurate he answered the question is yes. >> i'm supporting i'm supporting the republican ticket congressman i mean i just the only person happy about that interview was probably kris and new knew because he actually looked worse than him because sununu was doing the same thing. i just i cannot. when you ask him, isn't that the definition of putting party over country? it absolutely is the definition of putting party over country, not because he got to come back and said, well, look, if i was going to vote on the economy, like i agree with republican economics more than democratic, i can economic. >> but he was talking talking about who was a bigger threat to democracy to democracy. look, you can have an

out-of-control border, an out-of-control border does not threaten the peaceful transfer of power. because what we saw on january 6, what we saw, frankly in the intervening period before that, including when the person that succeeded mr. bill barr was told by the president at the time, just say the election was corrupt, just say it was corrupt. you don't even don't prove it. just say it, and then leave the rest to me and the republican congressman implying that he will put enough doubt in people's minds overthrow it. this is the definition of a threat to democracy and bill barr to go through his litany of things, stoves, they're trying to get rid of cars, which is the most insane thing i've ever heard. nobody's trying to get rid of cars. but he is trying to convince himself and you can see it in real time. because he's struggling there he didn't want donald trump to be the republican nominee. >> i mean, he made that pretty clear when we spoke to him eight months ago and this show

he was scathing, downright scathing, and his criticism of donald trump. i mean, without asking you to kinda i mean, only bill barr can explain his position now on this, but what do you think is behind the change it's easy, it's easy to just go with the republican nominee. >> i mean, trust me as somebody that's kinda been kicked out of a tribe. if you want us try to stay in your tribe and your whole identity is based on the fact that you're a republican or he's a former republican and that's how he's going to go make money now that's everybody knows him. it's much easier just to say, i'm just going to default to supporting the republican nominee because they're both bad people. it is hard to turn around and say, i'm gonna vote democratic even if i don't agree with the policies because of the threat. and that's what you're watching in real-time him wrestling with that and he made the wrong decision and he's frankly ought to be embarrassed that interview was a great interview. you did, but he ought to be embarrassed for his answers. >> he certainly was not. he stood by them. adam kinzinger. thank you for your perspective

on this tonight. >> you bet up next the other big story that we are following here tonight on the source, students have been suspended. >> hundreds of people have been arrested across the city. you were saying this pro-palestinian in protest, define deadlines and continuing to rally against israel's war in gaza. my next guest is no stranger to protesters. the filmmaker michael moore is here. also. the first part of the criminal trial of a former president is going to continue tomorrow will break down who we are expecting to see on the witness stand th someone who used to work at the manhattan district attorney's office news night with abby tonight at eastern on cnn arthritis pain. >> we say not today. tylenol, eight hour arthritis pain has two layers of relief. the first is past, the second is long-lasting. we give you your day bag so you can give it everything. tylenol. number one, doctor recommended for arthritis pain, switched to

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the pro-palestinian protests that we have been seeing playing out on college campuses across america, texas state police in riot gear not only arresting several people at the university of texas, but also deployed pepper spray on those who attempted to push them off campus. school officials say that the majority of protesters there were not affiliated with the school. i should note, virginia tech or rusting over 90 people, including 54 students who have all been charged with trespassing. cornell and columbia, suspending students students who refuse to leave in that have been put on their campus. columbia gave protesters until a 2:00 p.m. deadline today to vacate an encampment on their school grounds. this is how a student leaders responded we demand divestment. we will not be moved on left by force. >> this is a movement, an anti-war movement i source tonight, academy award winning

filmmaker michael moore, who is documented nationwide protests and has also been a part of them himself and michael. >> it's great to have you back on the show. i just wonder, you know, is we've been covering this and you really saw it hit a high point today at universities all across the united states from coast-to-coast how do you think that these schools should be approaching these protest in the opposite way that most of doing it. i mean, this what's great about democracy and free speech freedom of assembly freedom of not having a state religion. >> this is what every, those who came here, the white people came here wanting to escape that and so the lesson teaching the children of today in this case, gen z that we will, we will teach you. he will be, you we will call you if you want. >> none of them are committing any acts of violence. none of

them are destroying the university worst, maybe in some people's minds are doing is holding signs let's say, free palestine or from the river to the sea. this is the one that is constantly being thrown out there. oh, look at this, this, the sign is frightening all the students from the river to the sea and it's like, well, why don't you talk to them? >> because actually, first ball large numbers of these seats are jewish students who are with the palestinian students who together are forming these encampments. i don't know if that's been covered very much. how much i saw this one instance where the palestinian students inviting the jewish students into the encampment and then the next day they had a little nighttime entertainment in the encampment and the palestinian students decided to do a jewish folk dance for their fellow a

protesters who are jewish students yeah. can i ask you that because there are some people definitely sitting at home right now watching this who say, okay, but i've also heard jewish students on air here at cnn and another interview saying, well, i'm hearing anti-semitic rhetoric at this, and it's not all just a cauda kumbaya thing that it is. there are moments where do as students have said, they felt harassed, they felt on safe on campus going to going to class. i mean, i think that's the question of where is the line in? yes, at some schools like yale where we've seen a jewish student who wrote for cnn. today's saying he was sitting in with a pro-palestinian protests are but where's the line between protesting and free speech, but also jewish students feeling safe coined a class right? >> well, first of all, the protesters who were there supporting the palestinian people and their right to be free i would guess probably 98% of them are not saying anything that's anti-semitic because they don't believe in

anti-semitism in part because the palestinian people are semites so to be antisymmetric would be if you speak against jewish people and yes, md anderson anti-semitism is i think one of the most horrific things that the way people would be able, jews have been suffering as victims of this for 5,000 plus years. and everybody needs to stand up against that and fight it and speak against it. but what's going on? and i noticed that there was a report thing. i read the la times today and also on abc news, where there were interviewing students and they were being harassed and the hamas flags are flying. and abc and the la times did their own investigation trying to find at these college demonstrations one hamas flag that the protesters were carrying and the word none. this is all a made-up thing, just like like i said, the river to the sea. i just i wanted to just read this is from the charter of the likud party. that's the right-wing party that netanyahu is the

head of 1977 getting direct quote from the charter of the likud right-wing israeli party. and it says the following. >> the right of the jewish people to the land of israel is eternal and indisputable. >> between the sea and the jordan. there will only be israeli sovereignty that's their own charter. the likud party. that's where this river to the sea, because the real victims in these last decades have been the palestinian people not being able to have their freedom, not being able to live in a democracy, not having their rights and why so many jewish students are joining with palestinian students because they know what's wrong. two, that's why the majority, i think of israelis certainly want netanyahu out of their your own polls have shown that, well, i would and i think i'm glad you

brought it pulls one i should say that it is happening on some campuses. we saw the one student who was barred from campus after he said in a video in january that all zionists should be killed, or that scientists should be killed. that was something that was spread around and i understand, obviously, it's complicated in schools clearly are grappling with how to handle this knucklehead. and he's now apologize for it. i've been to giant stadium where i can't tell you how many times i've had to listen to white people shouting negative using negative words about black players using those epithets. does that mean all players are one thing or another or white people are? well, we know there's enough of them bad stuff is set in this country constantly because we have had a historic problem with bigotry, with racism, with all kinds of bad things said about minority groups and putting and especially jews. and that is not allowed and all the

organizers of all these demonstrations, i've talked to a lot of them. they've been in touch with me and i have to tell you they are the salt of the earth. they are kind and generous. they want to work with who's they want to live in peace. yeah, they do not or my toolbar seventh exactly capturing the nuance here at a complex nature of this is one thing that you brought up a poll about israel's leadership, but you're wearing a michigan hat right now, one, i won't hold you against that because i'm when alabama fan, as you know, but but to there there's a cnn poll that showed today 81% of voters who are under the age of 35 disapprove of help president biden has been handling this war. >> i mean, we're seeing it on campuses. there is a question of what we're going to see in november. i wonder what you think he should be doing differently to change those numbers thank you for asking that question. kaitlan, this is why i was so when i got the call asking if i'd like to come

on tonight, i really was coming on. i know we're speaking to millions of people, but i'd like to speak to one particular individual that is president biden i wanted to say this on your show tonight that his chance of not being reelected, i think at this point is so great because of those numbers. because the he's losing the youth vote. he's lost the arab american vote in michigan so even michelle goldberg and a column in the new york times last month said that you lose michigan, you lose the election i am fighting to make sure that doesn't happen. i'm trying to save joe biden because as soon as he does the right thing, as soon as they and if you're listening, watching mr. biden, fellow catholic although some will say recovering in my case, but still we are we are catholics and the pulp is right on this. we need an immediate ceasefire. it is wang, a mass slaughter of innocence of children, of women, of the

elderly is a sin it is absolutely against what we believe in. i know, you know, that too. i know that's why you're not really happy with what netanyahu has done here. and you can stop the killing tonight. you pull the plug, it closed the bank is shut it down, doesn't mean we're not going to support israel. israel absolutely. >> all but, but it's not what's going on here is a smashed slaughter. it is a it's so it's madness. president biden and you know, this, and i speak to you as a fellow saman ariane, to the catholic priesthood. that's me that this is wrong. this is not what we believe in and i think after the world war ii, we're all, we're all in the shadow of the holocaust. we are all sons and daughters of that era. >> and what did we want to do? we wanted to make sure that no jew would ever have to suffer again or be killed again. and so everybody that behind the

idea that they should have this home. but the home, the land wasn't taken from the nazis. the germans, we didn't give them bavaria we took land from people, people who want a single palestinian built and oven at auschwitz, not a single palestinian historically ran the spanish inquisition a single palestinian turned away. boatloads of german jewish refugees that tried to dock in boston new york miami prohibited, tried to escape before they were all exterminated and we turn them away. we, the united states and it's, it's i'm just saying it's your right to be as you say, your hair and you love the jewish people. obviously, yes. but not this. this is, this is massive extermination when you carpet bomb a civilian poppy by that's our tax dollars and my tax dollars. that means we

funding this way, are responsible this and we have to but i'm sorry, kayla, i just want to make this because people democrats are going to don't be sad. >> we got to win the election but we're going to lose the election. >> we're going to lose michigan if we don't turn this around and president biden doesn't turn this around. that is going to do more to put trump back in the white house and i refuse so have donald trump back in the white house. so what do we all going to do how are we going to fix this? >> there's a simple way right now to try to bring back some of the young people i know we're out of time. >> thank you for letting me say that and speak directly to the president you know, what i hope is watching. >> you know, we love, we love having you on. we'll have you back. michael moore. thank you for that. >> thank you so much meanwhile, tomorrow here in new york on the witness stand and inside that courtroom, as we have been

watching this so closely, porn stars, hush money, election interference you'd be forgiven for thinking that is what the trial is all about. >> but actually i'm next we're going to hear from a former men had prosecutor on what it's really about as we are set to see trump back in court just fefew hours assignment with hottie cornish, listen wherever you get your podcasts lactate is 100% real melt just without the lactose delicious to just ask my old friend kevin. now than like enjoying the coal one while watching the game who's winning we are my friend we are water would help with this dry spots. >> that's long as he's but scott's healthy plus will cure its lung disease going around. >> so like other people have it and it's not pick up a bag of the newscaster field are healthy plus lomb through today victims of mesothelioma and their families may be entitled

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progress sex, lives, and an audio tape. >> we heard a lot about all three of those in the first week of donald trump's hush money trial here in manhattan. >> but that was just the starters so easley tabloids slamming political opponents, say porn star, a playboy playmate, and david pecker all took center stage. >> but it's easy to lose sight of what the alleged crime is here. >> it's all about documents, legal fees, business records that will really be what determines donald trump's fate. my next source tackled this topic today in a new york times

op-ed piece, writing, it's not surprising that the lawyers on both sides are trying to make this about something sexier but she goes on to write the case as up preventing wealthy people from using their businesses to commit crimes and hide from accountability. joining me now is the author of that piece? former assistant district attorney in the manhattan da's office, rebecca roy phi, along with jennifer rodgers, former federal prosecutor, and cnn legal analysts, and also arthur aidala, a veteran new york trial attorney. rebecca, let me start with you because we often just say this is the hush money case. alvin bragg, the da says is the election interference case. you're saying it's neither of those, right? >> it's the boring old documents but i think it's important to focus on that in part because it just simplifies the case a huge amount and there are these promises with all of these stories that things that don't need to be proved are going to be proved. and that has the potential of confusing the jurors once you boil it down to the case, it

looks a whole lot, lot more simple, a lot more like things that are normally done in the da's office, and therefore more legitimate and other you've kind of argued about what the crime alleged here is. i mean, you pointed out that this is pretty fairly common, actually in new york. i think it was 10,000 cases that have been prosecuted for falsifying business records. i mean, what does that say to you about what you what this is actually going to get to when we hear jury instructions they use simple difference that everyone can understand those cases does that what they were within the statute of limitations. they weren't outside the statute of limitations, which is what's going on here. and now they've got to figure out a way to get around this whole statute of limitations issue on top of than the second prong, which is he violated some sort of election law. is it new york state election law? is it federal election law? that's still isn't very clear. they may not legally have to make it clear what a juror, a common sense juror wants to know what the former president and possibly future president in the united states actually did.

that was a cron. >> jen, i mean, how do you see that? >> well, you know, i've been talking to people who were atas, which i was not, but it's analogous to burglary when you charge burglary, you can make it a felony by proving that they went into do another crime, but you don't have to specify what the crime was. if you prove the breaking and entering was to commit another crime, you don't have to be any more specific than that and that's exactly what's happening here. you prove the falsified business records as rebecca is talking about, and then you prove that there was an intent to commit another crime. you don't have to say it was this federal crime, but it was this state or the legend let's use your example because i've used that example as well, but let's talk about new york city jurors. >> they want to know what the burglar is four, is he going to commit larceny? probably. why are you going in some sense, you're probably go in in there to steal something. juries want, even though you don't have to prove motive i don't approve what that thing is. they know the pressure on them. they're going to say donald, guilty. they want to know what does he guilty of and did not having them. >> but the point is they don't have to answer.

>> my view is it's just not all that hard to prove intent and they are suggesting what his intent is the problem in my mind thank is too much emphasis on that because yeah, it looks like they're using the state election law as the crime that he was intending to commit. the state election law makes it unlawful to try to suppress an election when you're doing so and unlock with unlawful means, the unlawful means are all sorts of the tax problem the contribution differently. i think they just need to scale back a little bit on the emphasis and focus a little bit more on what this case is really about, which is simple old falsification of business records, lying in your business records. and why would you go to so much trouble as to falsify what was at 34 different records i mean, it's pretty easy to use just circumstantial evidence to show your intent wasn't to just do that for fun obviously, you are trying to do something unlawful and there's all sorts of

theories and there's all sorts of evidence of what those other unlawful things are. i don't think the statute of limitations the issue is so hard because the state law has a kind of conspiracy element that would bring those in to the state election law problem. but none of that has to be proved with the kind of detail as if that were the actual crime we'll see what happens when gary farro, michael cohen's banker gets back on the stand tomorrow. >> thank you, everyone for being here. we'll have special coverage tomorrow night. of that next day in court. so be sure to tune in next year tonight, we're going to go inside donald trump's private meeting. but this former rival, ron desantis, notice he's not calling him his nickname anymor we think we know why how we'd really having with jesse l. martin. >> sunday's at nine on cnn, you're calling some people find there's in early age. others later in life no matter when you find it. consider yourself lucky because it becomes your everything are

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race, or trump labeled habit times as meatball ron and often called him the sanctimonious yesterday, though they have breakfast as trump is seeking to shore up donors with desantis, we are told promising to help the trump campaign, but the one thing that he desperately needs cash here tonight, former deputy assistant to president biden jamal simmons and cnn political commentator, s. e. cupp, sea, i just wonder first off, i mean, i guess it's just mutually beneficial. for the two of them. ron desantis clearly wants to still be in republican politics. and he can help donald trump with fundraising and connecting you with donors yeah, i actually think trump needs desantis more than the other way around right now, ron desantis is a gunner. >> he's a pretty popular one. he could sort of silo in his own state and do his own thing. but i think trump needs ron desantis. he needs fundraising, needs money, he needs a florida operation. i think he can lean on ron desantis for that, but it's real funny how quickly everybody forgets all their insults and how much they hate each other when political

expediency is on the line. >> yeah, trump posted today? no nicknames. were spotted are jokes about his is clothing, but jamal, there is this new cnn polling that came out over the weekend that i was looking into it and basically trump is farai is ahead of biden in this. and obviously a poll is a snapshot. it is not a predictor of what's going to happen make that clear for telling me talk about a poll. but i wouldn't or the white house is looking at this that donald trump is polling ahead of joe biden. >> i think it's frustrating to people to see that donald trump is still ahead of biden. but i think they also feel very confident that the fundamentals of the biden campaign are in far better shape than the fundamentals of the biden funding was the biden campaign the trump campaign the biden campaign is putting people on the ground and key states, they are raising money at an incredible clip. they are they figured out some social media tactics over the last year-and-a-half while people were complaining about what's the biden campaign doing, they were actually testing a lot of things. so he figured out how to talk the voters. they need to sway and so if, you look at

the voters, they're trying to get those voters do care about democracy. they do care about abortion. they do care about the economy and inflation in housing. absolutely. but they care about these other issues. i think they're focused on trying to target those voters and get to them. and say something they are worried about. and i think all democrats are, it's what's happening on these campuses what's happening around gaza? this is something that is kind of a free flowing thing because they're worried is spelling trouble for november. yeah. look at the numbers and we look at where donald trump is with republicans hizon, the 90s, joe biden's in the 70s when it comes to democrats and when it comes to young democrats, he's nowhere near who is these five or six points blow where he should be at this particular point. so he has got to find a way to get those democrats back home. and that will close the gap. >> i mean, we were all in washington this weekend. i've never seen protests outside the correspondents dinner, certainly not enlarged numbers and there were over these protests over what's happening in gaza exactly the antisemitism and that's not to characterize all the protests, but the antisemitism on the

left is a big problem for the left, it's a bad luck and you've got a large amount of democrats who are dissatisfied with joe biden and the white house stance on israel. >> he's going to have to contend with that for sure. my dad was the anti-war protester in the 60s around vietnam. i asked him about this. he said at the same time, they had people who showed up at those protests who would try to hijack the protests, but extremist messages. and they had to confront those people, shut them down and get them out of the way. that's what these young people need to do. and they find people who are having that kind of extremist rhetoric, get them out of the way because not doing anybody any favors separately also asked you about democrats because what the concern that i heard also was watching rfk jr. and what ballots he's getting on. >> he just qualified if hours ago, his campaign says for access in california we're seeing both trump and biden go after him, trump saying he's a democratic plant and a wasted protest vote. but clearly you are seeing concern in both campaigns yeah, he is he's a problem. the name of a man is a

problem on the left, right, if if his name was like robert f condyle, like, i don't know if anybody would care, but his name is kennedy and that's the thing people are focused on. >> robert f. klondike, jamal so i'm going to keep that one in my head up next it's why we are seeing a bunch of democratic governors pushing pictures with their dogs. it's a dig to south dakota governor. >> and was considered to be trump's running mate, krisisti noem news night with abby next on cnn. what's the greatest invention of all time, new hands-free sketcher slip ends. you just slip in and they're neuron. it's like they have an invisible built-in shoe horn. so your foot slides into place so that bending down or touching your shoes, then the heel pillow technology keeps your foot coffee and secure hands-free skechers it's lipids. >> did you know sling has your favorite news progress. we're just $40 a month? >> my favorite news for just $40 a month my favorite for

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democratic governors have been sharing pictures of their dogs and response. >> but this caption post a picture of your dog that doesn't involve shooting them and throwing them in a gravel pit but that introduction joining me now is new york magazines washington correspondent, olivia newsy, and olivia i don't even know what to say about this story mean either. >> it will thanks for having me. it's pretty dark. it was not that long ago that mitt romney arguably part of the narrative about mitt romney he that prevented him from winning the 2012 election was that he had put his dog seamless, whose name i still remember on the roof of his car for several hours while driving on a family vacation in 1983. this is a lot worse than that. i think animal rights activists would agree. >> i think what's what about is she's defending it today. it's saying and if she believes it shows that she's like a quality of grid, but this wasn't investigative reporting. this didn't come from a political opponent. she wrote about this in her own

book. that's coming out next month. i can't figure out what the strategy was. i guess there's one school of thought that she was getting out ahead of the story that perhaps people knew about this. and if she is truly a vp contender, as people think that maybe she wanted to try and tell the story on her own terms people do do that with all sorts of negative information that they they assume will come to light or she's sort of pitching herself. i mean, trump doesn't like dogs. famously, maybe she was trying to pitch yourself as a sort of sarah pale and ask country woman who's capable of committing acts of horror against animals. i don't know. it doesn't really make a lot of political sense. animals are the kind of one thing that are a unifying idea most people, regardless of party, in favor of this, i talked to newt gingrich earlier tonight who won he's fascinating guy, but he made a 2012 attack in that primary against mitt romney over the dog story. and so i was just curious, he's a famous animal lover, even if they don't always love him back, he

to get bit by a penguin ones and he said it was terrible and horrible. i thought it was interesting things haven't changed that much, at least as it relates to animals in republican politics. that's injured you're saying he was critical of it. i mean, because we've heard yes or even conservative media has been questioning why she did this. one guy is saying on fox news that you basically his like eliminated her, her any consideration is being vp, even some people didn't take that seriously. i mean, what's your sense of what trump world, how they're viewing this? >> daily beast reporting that there was some freak out and that they felt among the trump advisers that said disqualified her. i think trump is maybe write that he could shoot someone on fifth avenue and get away with it, but he could not have shot a dog and gotten away with it. people feel very strongly about animal protection in this country. >> did they do? and so do i. and instead of y, definitely blessed anyone think differently olivia newsy. thank you for always. jordan on the most bizarre of headlines. and thank you all so muc