symbolic from good here we are just blocked in yosemite demonstration of how competent is and the many he has around him. >> his play, they show of force flexing of strength in a lawless nation where today at least gangs hold the power. david culver, cnn port-au-prince, haiti cnn breaking news we begin with breaking news this morning from columbia university. >> we're live outside of the university where the protest movement has made a change that has ratcheted up tensions here on this campus. we are going into what will be the end of the second week? of pro-palestinian protest here on campus. now they have moved up from an area outside to inside

of this building just behind see that is hamilton hall protesters broke in and are now occupying that building. they have the same demands that they have had since the beginning. university and students tried to come to some agreement yesterday, but they were told students by the university that they must leave by 2:00 p.m. or face consequences, which includes so things like suspension if they were still on campus after 2:00 p.m. monday? well, the student protesters decided to stay and so now the university has to side what they are going to do with a huge police presence that's outside of columbia university but not yet inside of columbia university, you are seeing now two pronged protest. one inside of hamilton hall and the occupation there, one outside, where you have all of the tense still set up should many so there are some very visible signs of this protests, and i will let you see to my right there are photographer

will show you what you are seeing there out of the window from hamilton hall. it says free palestine in english and in arabic. and then on the other side, on the back of hamilton haul, that shows into so the campus, there is another sign that is getting a lot of attention. another banner, and that banner reads into fatah that banner upsetting things. some of the residents who live around here, we just heard from one of the neighbors of columbia university a jewish woman. her name is shira sticker she said, seeing that makes her think of a bloody revolution, intifada, meaning in arabic the shaking off or uprising, but for her admin, something very different. she was very, very concerned about where this is headed. as for the students who were taking part in this they have several demands. they are one asking the university to divest among

other things, from israel at any money's going in their investments, israel, they want that stopped and they also want a ceasefire. i was able earlier to speak with a student who is jewish, who was part of the pro-palestinian protest, who has been on campus for a very long time. he came out to speak to us. and here's what he says. his name is jared and he wanted to make clear that they were able to have their passover is the last day of passover. they were able to have their seder inside of the pro-palestinian encampment. what we're saying is that there's a genocide going on in gaza being funded by our government that our university is profiting office. >> and i think that if they can use some tactics to portray us all as some sort of hateful mob. then they can go on with ignoring our message all right now i want to go to our polo sandoval. he is standing with students this morning again, the university has changed

course students who are on campus and live on campus. and the faculty are the only ones that can get in at this point. what are you seeing there? is there confusion polo for students who are lining up outside the gates wondering what is happening? >> hey sarah, we've actually cross the street from your location where you can not only see, but you may be able to hear sure. that increase in security measures that we saw put in place by columbia officials overnight because of what you just showed our viewers. we're standing right next to what has become the only public access point, or at least for those who are are allowed on campus. and the system that the columbia university has right now is you have members of the columbia community. they want welcome to this card readers with their columbia it they scan them you hear the beep, you see the red light. you have to move aside your denied access because this system automatically recognizes that you are either not essential at this point or you

are not a student who resides on campus have been here already for quite some time. there are very few green lights that have gone out now, if there is anybody who feels that the system may be incorrect, there are supervisors here that will actually run people's names. i can actually contact some of the department heads, but just to give you a sense of the disruption, sarah, what we've seen are mourning aside from other journalists, is a long line of people that have gathered. again, it what is the main entrance right now? what is the only entrance? for those people who are looking to access columbia university? and the reality is most of the people that you're seeing here in line will likely be denied access once they make their way to the front of the line. this is certainly going to speak to the disruptive factor what we've seen. and it's also surreal to stand here and the shadow of the building that was occupied last night by protesters. so what you have are members of the columbia university they are walking right underneath the banner that was unfurled during the overnight hours, right by the building that was occupied. and then basically trying their

luck with their car to see if they will be allowed access. >> now, this is just a second. this is just one of two security measures that were implemented by officials overnight. the other, they also issued a statement. they also sent out a letter to all the members of the community saying, if you do not have to be on campus today please stay away because there's quite a bit uncertainty right now says we send things back to you. the question here is, will columbia reach out to external law enforcement for any potential? persistence that is a good point. >> polo we have seen a large presence. the nypd out five at the university and for awhile there the university was saying that after police did come onto campus, taking people off after that happened, that they were not going to have police coming back onto campus, but now the situation has changed. you have students who are occupying hamilton hall. i know that's going to get really loud. i'm going to push for one minute typical new york scene there

that has nothing to do with the protest, but i do want to mention some of the history of hamilton hall here quickly 68. there were protesters who occupied this building over the vietnam war. you had another occupation that 72 by students. you had an occupation that 85 by students? biden's here who took over hamilton hall to try and get the university to divest from south africa, from apartheid, south africa and their efforts worked. and the students here for the pro-palestinian movement are hoping that their efforts will work. now they are occupying this building, this big, large building that you see behind me, hamilton hall, there is a history of this. we will also retaking you at some point to the university of texas in austin. were there have been some serious protests going on and some clashes with police there and arrests. but for now the senate back to you, kate, these protests, happening all over college campuses across the country from california to write here the epicenter in new york yep and obviously entering

a new phase, if you want to call it that with now the seizing of this academic building at columbia the big question is what happens today, sarah, you're right they're hearing from the university and we're going to continue to follow this throughout the trigger out the morning and the de also happening right now, we're going to show you a live look at the courthouse hallway behind over there the courthouse hallway in lower manhattan where soon you will see and possibly hear from donald trump before testimony resumes in his first criminal trial. >> and for for the first time, one of those family members is joining him at least on the way to court, has son eric was seen getting into the motorcade with him outside of trump tower just a few moments ago also, there is new reporting today, the donald trump is mad, mad at his lead attorney. and once his lead attorney to do more to be more aggressive against the witnesses, the jury, and the judge, seen as verjee and grasses live outside the courthouse for us, britain, what are you learning about

donald trump now complaining about at all really behind the scenes? >> yeah, listen, the lead attorney, you're talking about kate, their todd blanche. listen when i was in the courtroom, he did speak mostly to todd blanche while he's seated at that defendants table, and what the new york times is reporting is that he wants them like you said, kate to be more aggressive in this first criminal trial? hi, all the quote is mr. trump wants him to attack witnesses, attack with a former president sees as a hostile jury pool and attack the judge. now listen our own paula reid also spoke to sources within trump's camp who says, this is a stressful time. the president is certainly can get pretty mad at his attorneys. that's nothing new but this is a currently a stressful time, certainly as we're at just the beginning of this first criminal trial, which could have a huge impact on his political career and himself as we no so we'll see how that all plays out and what we are expecting now for the returning back to court for the

third week, we will see the witness take the stand. that is gary fair he is the banker that worked with michael cohen to open those shell companies in order to facilitate the reimbursement to stormy daniels, the center of this hush-money trial. we're going to see lot of paperwork sort of entered into evidence. so jurors could sort of see the paper trail about that lead really the reason for these charges, according to the prosecution's so we're not really sure who's gonna be after this witness or how much longer this witness will be on the stand. of course, we don't get a heads-up on the order of the prosecution rather not giving the defense a heads up either because they don't want trump to go on social media and say anything negative about members of the jury or the witnesses. and so that's why we are not getting that heads up, but listen, you mentioned eric trump in court. that is a first. we have not seen any family member supporting the former president inside the courtroom we're actually seeing a little bit more support outside the courtroom as well. there's actually a motorcade of trump's

supporters, about three or four cars that have been circling this courthouse there's quite a bit more trump's supporters outside in the penned area for where protestors are allowed to be. >> so certainly going into this third week, it does appear that the former present has a little bit more supportive on his side. >> know that was something that the former president was complaining about, that there weren't more supporters out there in previous weeks. it's good to see you bren, we're getting back to you all the action about to be starting back up in court. there. also, this will the federal reserve finally make the move to start cutting interest rates or we look at rates holding steady for a sixth time in a row as the fed kicks off, its key policy meeting today, we'll be every piece of evidence tells a story now we really haven't. jesse. oh, martin sunday's at nine on cnn no application fee. >> if you apply by may 31st at

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players, what it on the line gone away. we keep playing as everyone is an excellent 76, there's next pacers box coverage begins tonight at 6:30. >> nba playoffs presented by google pixel with around one coverage presented by nerdwallet on tnt bring into savings this moving season with pod. save up to 25%. now i'm moving and storage and cy pods. it's been trusted with over 6 million move with oh, wait, save up to 25%. now, visit pod.com today cnn business update is brought to you by pods trusted with more than 6 million moves save up to 25%. >> now at pods.com big economic moment today, the federal reserve kicks off a highly anticipated to de, meetings cnn's matt egan is with us telling you it's interesting. i don't really think anyone's asking, oh, is the fed good to cut interest? great this time, that's where i'm john. i mean, if you're in the market for a mortgage or a car loan, you're going to be disappointed because the fed is widely expected to keep interest rates

on hold for the six meeting in a row. look at this just a 3% chance of a rate cut tomorrow. so it would be shocking if they did anything tomorrow, very low chances at the next meeting in june even if you go up to timber, the last meeting before the election, it's just 60, 40 in favor of a rate cut. the problem of course, is inflation. remember, the fed spiked interest rates the highest levels in more than two decades to try to get inflation under control. they, the good news is that because of all of this tough medicine from the fed, you can see all of these rate cuts starting two years ago and now on hold because of this tough medicine inflation has calmed down. prices are no longer skyrocketing, but they're going up faster than they're supposed to. and so the fed really can't lower interest rates right now because they could actually make the problem worse. now hopefully, inflation cools off and the fed can start to lower interest rates that would be good news for consumers. rate cuts whenever they come will help people when it comes to car loans trying to pay off credit card debt, student debt. >> and of course, mortgages.

>> that's the big one we've seen. mortgage rates move above 7%. that's just exacerbate hitting the affordability problem for homebuyers, right? because they're dealing with high home prices and very high mortgage rates powell tomorrow is going to face a lot of tough questions about when the fed can start to lower interest rates. of course, a lot of that is up to stubborn inflation. so we've got to pay attention really carefully because there's big implications here for the economy. the market, and even the election. john yes, i think people have paid be paying attention to what he says about the future? yes. more than the right now, that seems fairly certain. madigan, thanks so much. john okay. >> all right. so you are looking at live pictures once again inside the new york city courthouse where donald trump trump is about to start another week on trial. will the judge rule on trump's alleged gag order violations today? that's one of many big questions about what's about to play. play out as this week in court kicks off, stay with us. >> we have seen in special lab coverage about to begin hey

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donald trump's criminal hush money trial is set to resume, and there's also new reporting of the former president is mad at his legal team. >> trump has reportedly been venting about the manny hired to defend him in this trial. i'll map that he's not being aggressive enough against the judge. the jury even and the witnesses. cnn's kristen holmes, has much more on this. she's joining us and kristen, donald trump is also going to be holding his first day off trial duty campaign events, starting wisconsin tomorrow. what are you hearing about this? >> yeah, so quickly first, just to talk about todd blanche, and this kind of quote, unquote rift between them. i have heard from senior advisers who talk about the fact that yes, donald trump is routinely complaining about his lawyers. but no one around him that i've spoken to believes this is more serious than just that the fact that he is frustrated, that he is in court court, and obviously going to take it out on the people who are fighting this battle for him. that is how

donald trump works. not an easy task being his lawyer now, coming to the campaign part of this with just saw donald trump go to the cameras. this is the first time on wednesday that he will actually be on the campaign trail. he didn't try to go to north carolina last saturday. it was canceled because of weather but other than that he has done almost nothing in his off days, played golf one wednesday tomorrow will be the first time he is hitting these battleground states. now, they are saying they being his advisers, his team, that this is an opportunity for him to really test the water there to see how this trial is playing out in the middle of the country and can't we really need to stress here, these are two states that are going to be critical in the fall both biden and trump are going to be doubling down in michigan and wisconsin states that donald trump carried in 2016 and then lost in 2020. now, one thing i do want to point attention to because this is something that is circulating in trump's orbit right now, is this length the interview with time magazine that trump did that was

released today. now he talks about a number of issues, things we've heard them talk about before, talks about israel. he talks about abortion being left to the states. but there's one noted passage that i want to bring up, and that was about political violence. this interview was done in two separate sittings. in the first one, he was asked about political violence in relation to the november election. he said he wasn't worried about it in the second phone conversation, he was asked about it. again, this is what he said. he essentially saidid e wasn't worried about it because they were going to win. >> but then he adds this if we don't win, you know, it depends. >> it always depends on the fairness of the election and i can tell you right now that people close to donald trump are not going to like that answer because they want him to say there is not going to be any political violence instead of this kind of vague answer here, where he is alluding to potential vice helens, if he doesn't win the election, k wow christian grid, sue. >> thank you so much. more details of that interview coming out as we're also waiting for donald trump to

head back into court. thank you. >> all right. >> with us now, cnn legal analyst, joey jackson and jennifer rodgers, donald trump, just enter the courtroom and it is notable. his attorney, todd blanche we're standing right next to him when trump did his daily rant before heading in to court today, maybe trying to show that there is unity between trump and his attorney, even as this new york times report says, he's angry at how the lawyer has been conducted himself, kristen and cnn reporting. well, it's just a normal course of business. trump gets angry, is venting. i don't know but how reassuring that is. the todd blanche, his defense attorney, he was putting his career on the line to defend him. yeah john problematic to be sure. good morning. the reality is is he seemingly an impossible client. clients get upset, right? it's a high pressure situation, none more high pressure than this as attorneys though, right? you hired a person who is awake air of the court structure who can make arguments that would carry the de and it's very difficult from a defense perspective when you're defending someone not that client shouldn't be involved i'll then strategy.

they should be, but this is sort of our domain. and so i think that mr. trump may have a very difficult time, not controlling the essence of what happens in court and i do think, you know, todd blanche say what you want to think. he's a skilled practitioner? not everyone does things the same. you should allow him to do his job and allow the jury to decide whatever they do ultimately, when the case is over. but not unusual for our client to have some misgivings about how things are proceeding jennifer, some of the reporting is is that trump wants todd blanche to attack witnesses attack with the former president sees as a hostile jury pool and attack the judge. >> if you're sitting in the prosecutor, prosecutors table, how are you feeling about all this? >> yeah. well, i think they would love that actually, because that's where you lose credibility. i mean, defense lawyers is joey knows you often pick small things that don't really matter to give bob, right? you say, listen, we'll give you this one because you're fighting the bigger battles and someone who's a

scorched earth type of litigant like trump has always been, refuses to concede or admit anything his entire life. that doesn't play very well in the courtroom as we have seen through these civil cases. and now in this criminal case, is interesting. >> eric trump showed today, this is the first time trump has had a family member. i believe this entire case from jury selection. now we're three weeks and i'm curious, joey, if you think this is deleted the brit what the defense team gets out of it because we know to trump walked into court on friday noting that it was melania trump's birthday, and he wishes he could be with her. and we noted, i think correctly, that no family member has been with trump during his trial. any of them could be there this whole time. yeah. i think look, everything matters in a courtroom right now. >> there's the legal and practical from a legal perspective, the judge tells the jury and instructions you evaluate the case predicated upon the evidence you here and that's it. i don't care about your emotional state or anything else. what did the evidence show at the same time when you're speaking to your client, right? not that he needs to know how to dress and

what to do, but the family support is very important, having people there who will vouch for you, who are family members closest to you, very important fortinet. so that's an optic and a detail that i too thank the defense. not lost upon them potentially said, hey, get over here, sit into in this courtroom. >> one thing that's been lingering for over a week now is when is the when when is the president, when is the judge going to rule on former president's alleged violations? multiple at near dozen violations of the gag order do you think that we've stopped guessing when he's going to do it, but what happens if the judge doesn't rule on the first batch before he has a hearing on the second batch. >> well, nothing. i mean, the he needs to have a hearing before he rules so he can just stack them up. i mean, i'm starting to wonder whether the judge thinks it's more effective to have them hanging out there than it is to go ahead and rule on him, slap him on the wrist with a $1,000 per violation and move on. he may think it's better been he has been quiet or trump then he was

at the outset of this. so maybe the judge thinks this is the way to keep him quiet, to just have them keep racking them up, holding the hearings, and i haven't hanging over his head so document de that's where we are right now to get some documents on the record if you are the prosecution, how many days how long can you stick with this? >> i don't want to say boring, but i want to see in the weeds stuff before you see another dramatic witness. >> so what happens? john kay, does you have to prove your case, right? the prosecutors have to go through these so monotonous tasks sometimes right. before you get while you got some juicy in the beginning, primacy, they call it at the beginning right recency and so the reality is, is that you have to introduce documents. this is a document laden case. there's a home equity line of credit when was that establish how was it established? who established it? what are the documents leading up to it? what are the bank records? what did the bank records say? what are the dates on them? where the email? that's where the text message you have to tell your story. and so i think it's important with this witness to get all

that information. >> i don't know why you don't think that's juicy. i like seriously joey is great. see you guys is all going to start by gov is great to zhuge ever. thank you. this is cnn news central. cnn special live coverage of donald trump's criminal hush money trial continues. >> right now. >> you are looking live at pictures of downtown manhattan, the scene for the next chapter in an american first the country. now sitting just minutes away from week three of donald trump's criminal trial, moments ago, cameras capture donald trump as he walked down that hallway inside 100 centre street on his way into court. we may also get a major ruling at any moment from the judge who was inside that courtroom on gag order violations, allegedly committed by trump in the early weeks of a truly historic trial good morning. >> i'm kaitlan collins in new

york, and i'd like tapper in washington. you're watching cnn special live coverage donald trump's hush money cover up trial. the case against donald trump will be won or lost on the details and how or if the prosecution fills in the blanks for the during week three of the former president's criminal trial starts where we left off. at week two with gary farro on the stand, pharaoh is the former banker that trump lawyer and fixer michael cohen used to create a shell company. cohen then allegedly used to disguise the purpose of payments to adult film actress director stormy daniels. ones that donald trump ultimately reimbursed cohen four, says the prosecution, pharaoh is the government's third witness, who they call next and how they they build on this story. the prosecution is telling right now is unclear, but already the prosecutor in his means, it's witnesses to support what they've told the jury. they will hear from michael cohen. cohen is something of a centerpiece for the case. the man who played point guard for trump's alleged attempt to

silent stormy daniels and to make sure her story of an alleged tryst with the candidate states secret. cnn reporters are covering every angle of this trial were also closely monitoring another different breaking story. this our protests consuming campuses across the united states, columbia university in new york, the latest flashpoint where protesters at the school have now barricaded themselves inside a building on campus. >> but first let's get right to kaitlan collins, who was outside the manhattan criminal courthouse. >> kaitlan, another big week for the defendant, mr. trump certainly jake and i should note that we just saw him go inside the courtroom. he was complaining about those protests that have been happening across the country talking about them, even likening them to what happened on january 6, as we have seen, the former president continued to speak to the cameras before he goes inside that courtroom. i'm here as we are covering these proceedings, getting underway with cnn's keith legal affairs correspondent, paul read and also former manhattan district attorney prosecutor karen agnifilo

friedman, who is of counsel. i should note for a firm that represents michael cohen, but has no contact with cohen, doesn't work on his case. and there are no restrictions about what you can say about that. we'll talk about that in a moment as we are wondering if there will be further restrictions placed on mr. trump. but paul, i should note we're seeing these proceedings to start right now. donald trump has just entered the courtroom and we are seeing that donald trump and eric trump are standing there speaking there's pretty good, but it wooden barrier that distinguishes the gallery from the well of the courtroom. and if you're sitting at home, you may wonder, why do i care that eric trump is there? it is notable. he's the first trump family member to ever attend this trial. in support of his father? >> absolutely. that is significant because anyone who's ever been a criminal defendant knows this is one of the most stressful things anyone can go through. so to have this port of your family is significant, i'm sure that most of the people in that jury box now who eric trump is, they're going to take what of that? i don't think it's going to impact our ultimate decision, but it is significant to see that he has at least one family member. here's supporting him today. i think that's really notable. we'll also it goes back to they've

been arguing that he did this to protect his family. from testimony third, last week, they argued it was to protect the campaign. but let's talk about who's going to be on the witness stand. today's gary farro, this banker who helped michael cohen and last week he was talking about karen mcdougal and her payment that they tried to facilitate. do we expect it to get to stormy daniels this morning? >> yeah, that's what i would expect. now, of course, this banker talking about sex think up an llc for consulting exactly as exciting as tabloid king david pecker talking about hush money payments to former playboy models. but this is significant because at the core, this is a paperwork case. and here he's walking through how michael cohen set up this shell we'll company and also the intention that he at least put forward behind it, and i expect over the next hour or so he's going to walk us through likely those 34 documents at the heart of this case, because remember, trump is charged with falsifying documents, 34 counts. so that's why he could be a really significant witness today. >> and karen standby because i want to ask you about the gag

order and why we haven't heard from the judge on this yet, but we also have elie honig here with us cnn's legal analyst, and also a former assistant us attorney. and elliot, you were here on week three, but can you just bring us up to speed so far on what we've heard of this trial because we've obviously been tracking this minute by minute as we are seeing this updates, the judge just now greeting mr. trump as he does every morning. coming with good morning. mr. trump. but can you just walk us through what has set us up to get to this moment today. >> yeah. okay. let's go through some key takeaways from the first two weeks of this trial. now, to this point, the government, the de, has called three witnesses. they started off with david pecker, pecker, of course is a longtime friend of donald trump's. he was the chair of ami, the company that published the national enquirer. pecker took the jury inside the cd world of the national enquirer of what he called checkbook journalism of pudding stories out designed to help or hurt certain prominent people. and he went into detail on this practice of catch and kill, paying to silence stories three specific examples. one involving the doorman who had a story that turned out to be

untrue about donald trump and to involving women, karen mcdougal and stormy daniels, who alleged that they had sexual affairs with donald trump and he, david pecker told the jury the reason we did this in 2016 was because of the campaign. now on cross-examination, donald trump's team scored a few points relating to david pecker. they got him to say that checkbook journalism, this was common, this wasn't something that was just invented for the first time for donald trump. they'd been doing it for a long time, for a lot of different people. they also pointed out certain minor inconsistencies in his testimony. nothing that would worry me too much as a prosecutor and trump's team used david pecker to score point against yes. go ahead. >> i know you've got elliana gonna you've got a, bunch of grade slides for us but aged to stand by for a moment because we are getting an important update and that is that the judge has found donald trump in contempt of violating his gag order, and he is handing down his written decision to the parties so far, this is a notable moment. but in this trial, this judge had heard a hearing on this. first verse, ten violations that prosecutor

said they still have another hearing that's expected to happen this week on thursday on for more violations and we are hearing from the judge that he is fine. donald trump, $1,000 for each violation of this gag order. karen agnifilo friedman, this is incredibly significant because we were wondering where the judge's decision was. a what do you make? of what he's decided, how he's decided to carry this out. >> so it's not surprising that he held donald trump in contempt and violating the gag order because it was very clear that he he did violate the gag order multiple times and continued to the judge however, was taking his time to write a written decision, which i look forward to reading and talking about when i see it. and that's what he has decided to how to handle this. and i'm sure he's warning donald trump what he can and cannot do in the future. notably, he did start the morning saying, you can go to your son's graduation before he held him in contempt, which if you recall, kaitlan prior to this,

he never said he couldn't go. he just said i'll let you know whether or not you can go in today. he's disliked trump's claiming publicly correct. had barton for rats exactly i mean, what do you make of that in the timing because he did he started with the good news and then he got too well. i have also found that you have violated this gag order, and i'm going to find you, obviously $1,000 colors for each violation. we'll see how many of its all ten of them. and we're told by jeremy of that trump did not visibly react as the judge was reading this decision, paula but i think the question is always been but we'll actually deter him for violating one of the things that could deter him are conservative voices suggesting that he should stop violating the gag order and use that time at the microphones to camp and it's something we have seen over the past few days, is just that. now it doesn't mean that the targets of his ire, like michael cohen and others, one of the prosecutors used to work in the biden justice department are not going to base any criticism when we saw last week, they were getting sort of creative and their way to work around instead, relying on gop allies on the hill, two who

amplify some of these complaints that trump and his lawyers have about one of the prosecutors, about the judge. that is one. again, what are their creative attempts to get around the gag order. >> yeah. and jake, obviously a note couple moment here is the trump team was also waiting to see how the judge was going to handle this, and he started off the first morning of this trial this week by saying yes, the prosecutors did meet the burden of proof fear yeah, that's right. >> kaelyn. and then let's dive into all of that and laura coates, as we await the hearing beginning today if gary pharaoh is back on the witness stand right now, and the judge has called for the jury to be brought into the courtroom. and when that testimony begins, we will bring you that those updates one after the other. >> but laura looking at what donald trump posted on truth social, his comments where he was either retweeting, recoding, talking about the jury, talking about out the quote, unquote two sleazebags

who were witnesses. >> they're really wasn't any factual matter about whether or not he had violated the gag order. it was just a question i suppose. here's the michael avenatti poets. michael avenatti, of course, a famously one of trump's nemesis. but here he is he's in prison, may possibly be angling for a pardon should show donald trump be reelected and donald trump on april 10. so thank you to michael avenue, avenatti for revealing the truth about two sleaze bags who have with their lies in misrepresentations cost our country dearly. >> i'm not going to go through all ten of the alleged violations of the gag order, but nine, i'm told, but it's not really a question as to whether or not he violated it. >> he was told he was not allowed to talk about witnesses and there he is talking about witnesses, which poses the question, why would it have taken so long then for the judge to come to this conclusion, we knew that the writing was on the wall was inevitable conclusion based on what you're saying and beyond. and by the way, the words thank you, michael avenatti coming out of the mouth of donald trump is just really as we

think about it for a lot of reasons, mr. remind people, michael avenatti representatives for me, daniel. >> he didn't he famously take a bigger have a huge poster board. i think of michael cohen or donald trump's face. and bring it on air to say where's your client? i want to talk to this person about these issues. >> but by the way, just i'm sorry to interrupt, but i'm gonna be doing i'm not throughout the show because the newest got kids, they do the same thing news coming in from the courtroom again, if anybody in new york who has control over the judicial system wants to let cameras into the courtroom please do. i don't like interrupting people. the judge just hold mr. trump to take down all of the offending posts. wow. and significant, especially now, it's been ten minutes and the court has resumed. he's made these decisions already. he knows he has other hearing coming on thursday. there are four additional violations. this is going to be a stark warning. the question it will be of course, whether thousand dollars per find is going to be him saying, okay, thank you. put it on my tab. i can do that or will jail time being actual incentive for him not to do something about it. it works two ways. the right of course,

you have a judge's order saying that he must remove them from truth social, and two offending posts from his campaign website by two p.m. today, before court is out of session, which i note the judge wants to be able to look and see if he in fact is complying before he leaves his sight, i would suspect you would have worse consequences if it does not. but again, the graduated risk of having jail time over your head would be the ultimate penalty. this is the former president united states. will that happen? it's unlikely again, this was an obvious call. >> these were straight down the middle violations. there was no gray area or well, you can see it either way. the only question for me is, why did it take this long? but now the judges ruled and i think the bigger question is, what happens next time? what happens if trump posts more of these? attacks on witnesses and jurors and other people who are off limits. i mean, the judge in his defense, i guess, has very limited tools. i agree with you, laura, there's no realistic way the judge is going to imprison donald trump our team in the courtroom, kara scannell is sending this in he says defendants here by warned.

>> the court will not tolerate continued willful violations of its lawful orders, and that if necessary and appropriate under the circumstances, it will impose an incarceration yeah. yeah. so he's laying down the law. he's literally saying, that i will draw a line somewhere there we go. >> built do you disagreeing with the judge's move here? i don't know. and i think judge, were china's unfairly taking heat for the delay, having spent some time in that room with him he's a contemplative man. he's very deliberate, but he's, also want a tough spot, jake. he has a unique defendant here, a former president first time in history, and the idea of jail could have an amazing ripple effects. so what he may be doing is he's probably balancing, let's get this trial close to a verdict. let me dribble out the thousand dollars per count let me see if that works and it's a sliding and ascending scale. >> what he could do though jake, because judge merchan suffers no fools. >> he could have this continues

to happen, say, well, here's how we're going to do it. we're going to finish the trial. and when the trial is over, regardless of the verdict, you're going to spend a couple of days in jail. i mean, he could do it. >> so but if he does it during the trial, it's entered somebody i don't know if it was you or a different person who had previously served as an attorney for trump, but somebody said a different way that judge merchan could do it is not tell the defense who the witnesses are. >> any any the next day or the day after that as another punitive measure, saying we don't know, you can't get your client under control. therefore, we're no longer going to tell you who the witnesses are ahead of time, which would put them litigiousness in a disadvantage. >> well, as elie, will back me up anytime you're in a trial, elie was a former prosecutor. >> you'd like to get a complete list of witnesses and it's a subjective thing. it's sometimes it's case specific or prosecutors specific we're some prosecutors will just say

here here's here's they one day, two, day three, day four, that didn't happen in this case from what i understand, there was some concern about these tweets and the statements. so i think they were giving the next day's witness but it's important that the defense know who's coming up because you have to fair for that particular witness and night before. >> yeah. just another tool in judge merchan's limited arsenal. and jamie gan go right now prosecutor, attorney prosecuting attorney rebecca mangold is showing emails from first republic bank about the opening of the essential consultants bank account that's the llc that michael cohen set up with his banker gary farro. this is all about establishing that there was this shell corporation which michael cohen gave a purposely boring name to essential consultants. so that they could then allegedly you hide hush money payments to stormy

daniels. >> so as we say previously on homeland, just go right back we this banker is laying out what happened. there was another shelves he didn't fund that shell company. then i think it's a couple of weeks go by, maybe a week and he changes the name of the shell company and sets this up to me and the lawyers can dress his, but this is the underpinnings of the case. it's the black and white. it's the facts. it's laying the groundwork. >> can i just go back to judge marsha? let me just interrupt for one second because the type of business listed on the account document was, quote, unquote consulting and gary farro says that's consistent with what michael cole cohen told them. the purpose of the business was in a call. i think one of the things going on here, jamie and then casey, is that gary farro is explaining that he had no idea what this was four he was just setting this up for his client, michael

cohen he knows nothing about the purpose of this other than he was asked to set up an llc and he did so just the just to go back to judge goes to underscore what bill said about having something hanging over your head? >> i'm sure none of you ever got in trouble as a child. but for me, the worst part, were the hours when my mother said to me, we'll talk when i get home. and that's what two 15 in the afternoon is, but it really is. i think according to people i've talked to, who know the judge very well. that was part of this. he was taking his time and i think the three lawyers will also agree. the judge always wants the lawyers to control their client. there was pressure on them too. >> well on this. one of the most interesting things about the story in the new york times detailing some of the reported

tension between the lead lawyer for donald trump here, todd blanche and hint his client you guys up to speed on that because maybe some people don't always read the short useful pros. maggie as we do jonathan swan. yeah. well, so it's another classic and for anyone who's covered donald trump, you know, he's always attacking his lawyers privately, like the government councils that worked from the white house, donegan pat simple one came in for some of the toughest, most aggressive criticism from him and he has cycled through lawyers behind this behind the scenes, and he has cycled through lawyers publicly as we know, he found a bunch to try to defend him after january 6, rudy giuliani, jenna ellis, others, todd blanche, and i'm sure elie, i think he worked with them at the southern district of new york very respected veteran guy who surprised many of his friends when he went to work for donald trump and now the times is reporting that trump is upset that it blanche is not being sufficiently aggressive in his defense. he's not attacking the jury and the judge prosecution right now showing documents that michael

cohen provided to the bank, showing that the llc was created in delaware. and let me just take a quick pause. i'll come right back to you i'll go to either one of my 50 boys here. well, you're you're actually technically from jersey bag or why account again, just to remind people why delaware, why when you're setting up the shell corporations, why either one jump all to the delaware favorable tax rate? well, where's made a cottage industry? >> of being a favorable place to incorporate that's why a lot of the major credit card companies, banks, only companies are down there. >> so it's a very lender friendly state that's why i think it per capita, it's the number one state in the union for corporations and companies to be based in and to casey's point about the tension that's reportedly happening between donald trump and his lawyer, todd blanche. this happens all the time. i mean, bill can talk to this as well. there is always a tension between the defendant who usually wants his lawyer on the attack, go after everybody. this is my liberty at stake, and the lawyer who sometimes will say, well, hang on. we need to be strategic

here. it doesn't make sense to go after rhona graff, for example, they administrative assistant who testified last week, we're saving our fire. the defense lawyer will often say, for the most important moment in this case, from michael cohen and it does seem that is trump's attorneys approach. >> all right. let's go back to kaitlan collins outside the courtroom in beautiful manhattan yeah. >> and jake, i should note, we are now seeing the first image of trump in court today. obviously, as you noted, there are no cameras inside at the courtroom, something that is a much frustration to us as broadcasters, but we are seeing images of trump in the courtroom with his attorneys. as you can see here, he is seated at the defense table well, and that is where, you know, just moments after that, the judge said that he had in fact violated his gag order nine times, to the tune of $9,000 as a fine. and also the judge said and then he must remove the offending posts by 2:15 p.m. eastern. this afternoon. so obviously didn't give, you know, has to get to work and paula and karen is we're reading through this the judges using trump's own words

against him and saying that trump himself has bragged about the audience reach that truth social has and where those posts go. and he said that the idea that re-posting something is not a statement of donald trump's is just belies common sense and he's saying that the issue of re-posting appears to be a question first impression, and lacking the legal authority to guide this decision, this court must, as a defense counsel rely on legal rely on common sense. it gay anything he reposts is considered a violation of the gag order right here. yeah. even trying to quote people, for example, one of those concerning posts was what appeared to be a quote from a fox news host about the jury being filtrate about liberal activists. >> that was incredibly concerning because there were worries that, that could prompt threats against the jury. but here the judge completely knock that down, saying, look, you're trying to quote someone, but it's clearly your own words. they uttered a statement. you place it in quotes. the purpose was to call into question the legitimacy of the jury selection process. in this case, is this constitutes a

clear violation and requires no further analysis. those so the judge clearly not having any of it with trump and his team's attempts to work around this gag order in i should note the hearing is underway. the witnesses back on the stand it as gary farro, the banker from michael cohen, and he said it's about five or six hours to open the account for essential consultants. that's the one that was ultimately used to facilitate facilitate the payment to stormy daniels. he said it was everything was urgent for michael cohen says are monitoring this and looking as trump, trump is whispering with todd. blanche has attorney here that they were just talking about the new york times reporting on the tension between them. todd blanche is the one who was arguing to the judge that trump had not i've violated the gag order that reposts weren't necessarily an endorsement of trump, and the judge is emphatically disagree with that yeah, it's really interesting that this morning, it was reported that trump wants his lawyers to be more aggressive and attack witnesses more, but this particular order makes clear for of the gag order that not only trump

can't do it, he can't cause others to do it if he wants to do it in court, that's one thing when you're cross-examining a witness, but outside of court let's get this gag order actually applies not only to trump, but to anybody else. >> he cannot he cannot go after witnesses. >> well, and it doesn't seem to bode well for thursday's hearing, were there there are four more violations that the judge is going to take under review. >> that's correct. and people were saying, why did it take the judge so long to rule? but he didn't get when you read the decision, you see why he actually took his time and considered each of the ten posts individually and he owns only found him in contempt of nine of the ten. so he was really considering all of the arguments that todd blanche made on behalf of donald trump, and really parse stout. >> what what it was in terms of what was going to be in violation of it. >> and really what he says was there can be no doubt whatsoever for the defendant's intent and purpose. when

re-posting is to communicate to his audience that he endorses and adopts the posted statement as his own. i think that's pretty powerful. powerful i should note that as we're monitoring these updates are inside the courtroom. the banker is testifying that he did not know that what michael cohen was trying to do was on behalf of a political campaign today opening up this account to pay that six-figure sum to stormy daniels here, that could be incredibly important as they are getting into the heart of this case is paula noted it's a documents case and he is saying there would be additional scrutiny if they had no it was related to a political candidate and i'm glad that that's what's happening inside the courtroom polo, because the judges also noting here that trump is a political good candidate and they want to take efforts to make sure that his speech isn't curtailed while he's out on the campaign trail. and they say, for that reason, they exercise discretion when expanding the gag order didn't issue it until the eve of the trial because of that, i should know that ties directly to what we're hearing from the witness right now saying eight years ago, we didn't know that donald trump is candidate for president. that was who this

was going to benefit. essentially, yeah, it's an important point and it's gonna be interesting to see how todd blanche handles this argument on thursday but if an update from inside the court, they're saying it is an industry that we do not work with. i believe that's referring to the adult film industry. i have the bank are there from michael cohen talking about the purpose? for this llc being set up, but todd blanche in the last year and it was a disaster. they were trying to focus on their broad strokes arguments about hiv political speech, the unfairness of the process does and the judge wanted to focus on each individual each individual posts, so going forward, it appears on thursday, todd blanche may have to adjust his approach if you want some more successful for his client. yeah. and we'll see what that looks like and i should know the prosecution is now showing emails to and from michael cohen confirming that bank account transfer of $131,000 from a home 40 line of credit, as we know that he used to disguise it from his wife also because he believed it was an easier method. >> he made the transfer within 23 minutes of opening that accountants peaks so that urgency, the trump's attorney was working with in the final days before the 2016 election.

also, of course, we're talking about the judge, finding donald trump for violating the gag order, we have much more for a cnn's special live coverage, right after a quick break so story one of the world's most diverse ecosystems, eigen watson confronts the stark reality of climate change are to fight for us the. >> whole story with anderson cooper sunday at eight on cnn bring into savings this moving season with pod. save up to 25%. now i'm moving in storage in selye pods. it's been trying it did with over 6 million moves, but don't wait, save up to 25%. now, visit pot.com today. >> we're coming together for our yearly service project and running a t-shirt fundraiser through custom ink to help the cause. plus their design services team helped us get a design we love come together for a cause, get started today, accustoming.com this is the one

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donald trump is also running up a tab with the court judge juan merchan, find a trump $1,000 each four, nine different violations of a gag order. he also ordered trump to delete the offending posts from his campaign website and from his social media. truth social by 2:15 p.m. today hey, if mr. trump disregards the order again, the judge said he may impose an incarcerated lori punishment that would suggest prison or rather jail time right now. >> just to bring you some updates from what's going on inside the court. >> records show that cohen's wife is also listed on the home equity line of credit connected to their personal property this has to do with gary farro saying that cohen got the home equity line of credit transfer to pay this settlement. this alleged hush money to stormy daniels and laura coates, first of all, kind of interesting that the judge has actually talking about incarcerate tori

punishment saying if this keeps happening, you could go to jail. >> we did know that there had been some reporting of coordination or at least prospectively discussing what would that look like? he's a secret service agent in-person, write the former president, united states, how would that work in terms of a holding cell and beyond? >> but the average defendant, if they violate a court order and only is the punishment normally swift, it normally wouldn't take so long to make a decision on this. >> and where's the reason why the gag order is in place to protect a fair trial. and of course, to protect the safety of the witnesses. the jurors, and the personnel that nobody feels intimidated or less able and capable of going forward. remember, we already had a juror who initially said i was in that i got to be off this case because i think my anonymity has been compromised. that seemed to be around the time, but the jesse watters statement, although those who are says he was not fully quoted by trump in his post, was there and then you had another person on day one of the opening statements, he living similar. and so the

judge did take his time nonetheless, so judge, certainly hasn't is in his purview to do so in his wheelhouse. but the fact that he hasn't done it. so now i wonder how deterred he will be knowing that thursday there's another hearing on for more things is getting oppose incarceration then when those have been before this initial sentence, i doubt it right now. kasie hunt, what the jury is being shown is information russian records relating to michael cohen setting up this llc. the shell corporation in delaware, in order to make what cohen says was hush money payments to stormy daniels, the jury is emails right now labeled high importance as they seek to make the transfer from cohen's line of credit to the essential consultants account in this has to do with michael cohen getting a home equity loan, right apparently, i believe unbent unbeknownst to michael collins, wife about this loan so that he can make this $130,000 payment to stormy daniels that he is according to cohen later, repaid by donald

trump. >> i have a lot of questions about how hey, you can take out a loan on your house without your spouse's knowledge, might be i might have that detail wrong. i might have that detail wrong either way, if you're taking out a loan on your own home it shows the level of importance of the task at hand, right? it's putting, it's a significant a risk and decision to do something like this for michael cohen to do this. and i think we're also getting some details around the urgency in terms of the timing. it says they made this transfer from the home equity line into the checking account within 23 minutes of the checking account openings so that he can then cut this check. i mean, it really does kind of give you if what they're trying to do here for is connect the campaign and the way they felt about that and the time pressure and deadlines as they approached the election. i think this helps in a certain way helps you understand that part of the case. in addition to obviously jamie, as you've been pointing out, just laying out the facts, right? >> i go cohen wrote to the bank at 4:11 p.m. october 26, 2016.

can you please send me confirmation that the funds were deposited into the other account? important. and this is important that his home equity loan was transferred to the shell corporations so that stormy daniels could be paid. so she would not then tell her story four minutes later, cohen's told the funds have been deposited and this is about jame again, gale, the urgency that michael cohen took this issue allegedly at behalf of donald trump, fully funded and live for business. gary farro michael cohen's banker tells him of the account fully funding funded live for business, meaning, go ahead and this paint and we have no idea of gary farro knows probably had no idea. and michael cohen then makes this payment to stormy daniels, allegedly buying her silence, right before the 2016 presidential election. >> so the date is very important. there. october 26. and just to remind everybody, the access hollywood tape had

come out on october 7. that was a bombshell for the campaign. they were worried about it. now, there are two weeks before election day and there was a quote from ferris or earlier, everything was urgent with michael cohen then you see 23 minutes later he's funding the account by four 11 he he's doing the next step. it sets the speed, urgency, and speaks to the underlying argument here by the prosecution that this was not because he was worried about his family. he was worried about the election and contrast this with what we learned from david pecker's testimony about the pacing of the payment to karen of the pacing for others, why this was little bit different than this. the other cases, the other catch-and-kill schemes, so to speak. remember at the prosecutors have to prove not that this is something that is normally done in business or that this was just for personal reasons. they have to show it

was connected for the fallout as well. and what happened and access hollywood. why remember they cannot actually show the access hollywood tape? the judge is already said it'd be prejudicial and not probative enough but they can talk about the fallout from it. and as to your point, the fallout includes the urgency the y now the timing of all these aspects of it, the fact that it was always urgent, but particularly urgent now, particularly given these were allegations that had come before you know, from rhona, the right-hand what donald trump that she had seen stormy daniels in trump tower in the past, that there was some conversation about her possibly being cast in the appraised her book talks about that as well, and just the timing and the so-called to the layout the mundane details of opening an account, but also the win and so people understand at home, this is a two-step transaction. the payoff to stormy daniels, and this is the crux of the crime. >> okay. so we're hearing rebecca mangle, the da is showing the wire transfer

authorization form that cohen filled out, but more top are 27 more to that urgency theme. the first step and name it was michael collins getting this money off his own oregon $230,000. he pays stormy daniels directly. part two of the transaction happens later where donald trump and his organization, they reimburse michael cohen for 400 something thousand dollars, which covers the one 30 plus more over a series of checks over the following weeks and the allegation is that this entire payment structure was falsified to make it look like well, this is just a person paying his attorneys fees rather than the hush money that's when you hear falsification of business records. that's the crux of the crime, and that's that second part of the transaction that's what gary pharaohs testimony. i'm with you guys until the bottom of the ninth. >> i agree that it was an urgent transaction. i agree the colon was very pushy with pharaoh, but an argument could be made by the defense that there's no opportune time for a married man with children to

be added. about an alleged affair, especially with somebody in the adult industry. so october 26 may have been the access hollywood tape day. it's also another de in that marriage and that family. and you have to remember that the prosecution has the burden and must tie these events to the motive of another crime that being either campaign finance or politics. >> and cohen was a sick of fan to trump at this point. >> he was like a dog looking for a pat on the head and i find it interesting that he had to go out and get his own home equity loan and i find it very curious that the wife apparently didn't no, but she's on it, so i think a strong argument can be made that went rogue. cohen did what he did to get a pat on the head from trump and it had nothing to do a pilot. so collateral effect. and that is without question, one of the arguments that the defense for mr. trump

is going to make in front of a jury and just to remind our viewers, all he needs to do is convinced one juror that that is the truth. >> and there goes the case and just to settle this before i throw back to caitlin, i was correct michael cohen said he he used the home. this is a quote from his testimony before congress in 2019. i use the home equity line of credit as opposed to cash i had in the exact same bank that i didn't want to because i didn't want my wife to know about it she handles all the banking and i didn't want her coming to me and asking what's the $130,000 for? so apparently this home equity loan was done around the back of his wife, so she would not know caitlin yeah. >> jake, michael cohen has made clear he he had the money to technically pay this six-figure sum, but he was trying to also hide it from his wife as they were trying to negotiate this in the final days before the election. and i should note, we're getting an update from inside the courtroom as this banker and help facilitate this payment unwittingly, he says to

michael cohen i'd said that it wasn't unusual that there could be a number of reasons why an attorney would be transferring this money and would pay a retainer to another attorney in a real estate transaction as he is saying that they did not know that it was to benefit a political candidate, that there would've been additional scrutiny if so, paula reid, we have been hearing from david pecker and trump's former assistant, and we're going to have a lot of other salacious witnesses coming before us. but this is important because this is the way they are getting this evidence into the record here. >> yeah, the prosecutors had just a few hours late on friday and they chose to bring in a couple of short witnesses, certainly not household names, to help them get it's important evidence in and get it verified and the fact that this quote that we have up here explaining why an attorney would pay retainer to another attorney in a real estate transaction? that's significant. she does at this point in the story, pharaoh thinks this is all for real estate transaction. he has no idea that this money is going to be used to pay stormy daniels to suppress her story in the days leading up to the election. again, not a

household name, not the most sensational testimony, but really crucial for the prosecutors to build the blocks of this case because yes, it's about sex, it's about politics and a campaign. but at the core, it's about paperwork yeah, and we also have dairy goals that over here. who's an election and campaign finance attorney and jerry, it's great to have you because as you're hearing what this banker is testified, why is it important for him to say, you know, i did believe this was for real estate transaction that i didn't know that this was on behalf of any political purpose well, it shows that cohen was lying to the banker. >> look at is about a narrative telling a story we've heard a riveting testimony from pecker about the catch-and-kill scheme. >> and he laid at the feet of trump that the intent was all about the election and we're going to hear some colorful testimony from cohen but we also have to drill down on the facts and we see these bogus banking transaction and we're going to hear about the phony

invoices and the checks all these little details are what the prosecution is weaving into their main story. and the jury needs to put all that together and the prosecution jim, is calling witnesses and putting in documents. >> so that they can understand this story. as pecker testified to the, other thing that sticks out is michael cohen is very clearly acting with urgency. i mean, he transferred the funds within 23 minutes of the account being opened there was a 3:00 p.m. deadline that he met. i believe it was three minutes before, according to what this banker testified, what does that say to you about how quickly he was moving here i think that there were crazed after the access hollywood tape, the election was approaching quickly they wanted to pay off stormy daniels. >> they wanted to cover it up. they wanted to make sure that the american electorate had no

idea of what was going on. >> they were very much concerned because the election was approaching. >> i think that's what the cones acting so quickly shows all right. >> in jareh gold better stay with us because that's important perspective on what was driving all of this. and i should know we are being told that trump is whispering in his attorneys ear, also passing him handwritten notes as we are hearing this testimony from the banker who helped facilitate what clearly wasn't very urgent transaction by michael cohen and karen you were just reading through the gag order and found this really significant line where the judges basically lamenting that it thousand dollars is not enough, that maybe it works in some instances, but not when someone i can easily afford it. and he says that they don't have the authority to make it a higher fine, maybe $2,500, even floats $150,000. and he says because the court doesn't have that discretion, if the violations keep happening, jail may be necessary punishment here yeah.

>> a gag order or holding someone in contempt is really designed to do two things. number one, to punish. but number two to get the behavior to stop. and really that's what the judge is focusing on. is this is not going to get you to stop $1,000 because you're very wealthy. and so i will be left with no choice because the statute doesn't allow me to find you more. that will make an impression to get you to stop. and so if i'm left with no choice, i will put you in jail. if i have to. i mean, that's essentially what the judge is saying. his gag order. so it was very interesting. the other thing he says in there also is he talks about michael cohen and stormy daniels that look, although they're not gagged, he does say he does acknowledge that trump can respond if required. and so he almost sending a message in here as well saying, look, if it turns out that other people are using this gag order as a way to attack you if you can't attack back, then it's not going to, then this gag order

is not going to apply to those witnesses who clearly aren't afraid to provoke you. so he really was drilled down on what is allowed and what's not allowed. >> yeah. >> and we'll continue to see what he handles this. i mean, there is another hearing on this on thursday. i should note inside the courtroom might now we're here on the testimony from the banker who helped trump's fixer allegedly silent, stormy daniels, about 50 minutes after michael cohen walked into the bank to initiate the wire transfer, he received email confirmation that the wire was sent to davidson, that as keith davidson stormy daniels is attorney who helped to facilitate this matter much more. in all of this as we are continuing live coverage of trump's criminal trial back in a moment there piece of evidence tells a story. how was really haven't. jesse l. martin sunday's at nine on cnn i brought in a juror max protein with 30 grams of

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lives. >> cnn's special coverage, cross-examine in cross-examination just started inside cord, michael cohen's banker gary farro, is now being questioned by attorneys for donald trump, but namely lead attorney todd blanche, the former president, and to sitting back in his chair as he listens, joining our panel now as cnn senior political commentator, david urban, a republican strategist and former adviser to the trump campaign and david, the first-order of business four, judge merchan, this morning was acknowledging that donald trump had in fact violated the gag order nine times out of ten times. the prosecution had complained about it and finding him $1,000 for each one and warning him that possibly if he keeps violating the gag order, he could go to jail. do you think that that might have any impact the thousand bucket is i

can have an impact i heard you mentioned it earlier the threat the threat of jail. >> i think is credible and series but are they really are they really going to put donald trump in prison? it really going to make them even bigger martyr by putting them in jail. i think that's the question. right? and so how do you there's a challenge to the judge. how do you enforce that without further making him a martyr in this case? in this instance, right. and i it's going to continue the back-and-forth as long as i'm the lead witness here is on social media every night streaming live for six or seven hours. chumps get a feel that he has a right to kinda push back referring to michael cohen, michael collins on every night streaming for six, seven hours, right? i think trump's get a feel like he has the right to push back on that and they're going to be this continual conflict the expanded order of get gag order does permit donald trump to respond to political attacks and the judgment is whether what's a political attack that he's responding to, that he's allowed to. and what is not

laura coates right now inside the courtroom trump attorney todd blanche is during cross-examination of gary farro, who is michael cohen's banker, who helped set up these shell corporations in delaware through which michael cohen allegedly made these hush money payments to stormy daniels and pharaoh is basically being asked questions by trump's attorney, todd blanche to depict pharaoh as carrying out the orders of the prosecutors, which is also what todd blanche did when it came to the testimony of david pecker, kind of establishing you talk to these guys, these prosecution officials in 2018. what happened? many times, have you met with him? met with them? what is that? that's pretty standard stuff. >> does having inherently wrong with questioning where are your allegiance is fall? you want to have a witness in front of this jury that's going to be objective and we're the information without are the

sort of damocles hanging over their head that if i don't say what the prosecution wants me to say, i'm in trouble. but often club where you have an immunity witness, though, who is essentially going to be currying favor with the government for that reason does not truthful, but it's part of the consideration. you also know that we were talking about what they're trying to do. they're trying to establish that you've met with their prosecution enough times. that's that perhaps your narrative is far in line with what they'd like you to say. but nothing wrong with talking to the prosecutors in ahead of time before you get to a trial, you actually often have either grand jury testimony or otherwise, what they're trying to suggest here though, is here you are unlike where my client is. i'm not a defendant in this case, david pecker, similarly, not a defendant in this case, has immunity. you are saying you have a ten foot pole, things sending i didn't know about this. and had you known perhaps would have been more due diligence about the nature of payment if it was not known to you that it really was a real estate transaction, maybe you would have been very different so trying to paint really michael cohen as a nefarious actor who cannot be believed more than attacking this witnesses credibility.

>> yeah. well, i mean, that's the whole that's the whole thing. right. i mean, even as you you are reading well, here's what we know about the thing from michael cohen's congressional testimony, or you just got google michael cohen, congress to find that he pled guilty to lying to congress. right. so there are all sorts of issues around michael cohen's credibility that seemed to be the heart of the as we were talking about the todd blanche situation where he's trying to urge blanche to be aggressive all the time. >> and i think you were basically saying, well, he's going to reserve that for the whole crux of the matter, which is michael cohen's credibility. and i think what todd blanche is doing is using the other witnesses to attack michael cohen's credibility for example, todd blanche, scott, david pecker, the first witness to say that michael cohen tends to exaggerate or prone to exaggeration. >> that's really valuable. and i think what todd blanche is going to do with the cross-examination of gary farro. that's happening right now that we're following along with is established that the person who came in in this mad rush to get this money and deceived his wife in the process was michael cohen. and

you, gary farro, i presume, never had any direct contact with donald trump. that's another theme that you're going to see that the real actor here, the real person driving all of this was michael cohen. and that michael cohen, to an extent kept donald trump in the dark. >> and i think there is one of these far right networks like beyond fox, far-right. that had to apologize. oh, an oan was it for for some nonsensical speculation that it was michael cohen actually that the rendezvous with stormy daniels and i think they had to issue a full apology because there are these all theories out there in the fever swamps of maxilla and this one made its way onto whatever that channel is. and i suspect michael cohen's attorney had something to say about it. if they were apologizing. >> well, one american is we are now in a world where there are all these channels to the right of fox, we are also in a world where fox is really had to pay for what they did with the dominion. and that has everybody, you know, you cannot, you cannot make things

up and broadcast them widely. you just can't well, you can use you just have to be more clever about how you do it, which i think is their standard today. blanche is asking pharaoh, so todd blanche, trump's attorney is asking gary pharaoh, who's on the witness stand about his initial meeting with michael cohen at trump tower when he took on cohen as a client. and how pharaoh spoke to cohen a few times a year again, todd blanche trying to undermine the significance of gary pharaohs testimony and they we can note too that our team is reporting that the jurors have been taking notes as his cross-examination is going to. >> they also are saying that trump is sitting next to his lawyer, apparently with his eyes closed as which doesn't necessarily mean that he's sleeping, but he has been known to fall asleep in this in this trial, i was going to ask we have federal prosecutors who have done this for a living this is a long trial or this is going to go on for how many more weeks? at least six more here for three more, four more weeks. >> and so these jurors are

hearing from you know, todd gary farro. they're gonna hear from all the different witnesses. i mean, it's some point there's the prosecution up. this is a question for you guys. >> did they lose what are they going? >> and present like the fiery who's that? who's the big witness if michael cohen's it is that trump winning? let me just let me just interject for one second because some of what trump's attorney todd blanche is able to get from gary farro, the witnesses, first of all, when michael cohen says something's urgent, what does that mean? >> well, ferro said of dealing with cohen 90% of the time. it wasn't an urgent marape matter suggesting that just because michael cohen said something was urgent, didn't mean that that was actually urgent. is michael cohen always thought everything was urgent, fair. also saying that he was assigned cohen from his position at the bank because his firm with clients which suggests i'm i'm i'm intuiting here suggests that michael cohen was something of a handful to deal with. >> i mean, i've you've spent time dealing with michael any of this i am i have. and then

in case gary farro testifying his firm with clients and that's why he got the cohen account, jamie game, right? >> the other day he also said he typically was assigned find more challenging clients to deal with. this was part of his portfolio, but just go back to the quote about that. cohen was one moment, sorry, todd blanche saying colin, you believe he's an aggressive guy, fast speaker not easy if you're not firm with him, that's what todd blanche says and pharaoh says yes, that's correct. aggressive guy, fast speaker. it's, he's not easy to deal with if you're not firm with him, eric trump, by the way, the former president's second son of three is in the courtroom and continuously looking at the screen. go ahead, jami, i'm sorry. do you know what the screen i don't look it's not evidence. >> evidence in front of a jury when they're able to look at the documents okay, i think much more than anything else in cross this notion that cohen is

aggressive, that everything was urgent is much more effective or playing the juror than that he spoke to prosecutors that doesn't go anywhere for me. >> this speaks to okay. >> right side court right now. jurors are taking notes as attorneys for the former president tried to poke holes and the credibility of michael cohen's former banker, gary farro. much more. cnn's special coverage next squeezing quick break cnn this morning with kasie hunt. >> tomorrow at five easter when it comes. to family, i always do what's best. my parents taught me that. that's why i called a place for mom. there personalized guidance was just what i needed to find senior living for mom and their advice is free to families i'm not just free and valuable. >> are adviser gave us options based on our needs and budget, guiding us to the best decision. >> i never expected a free

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to cnn's special live coverage. >> donald trump, we are told has been slumping back in his chair, his eyes shot at times is the jury's been listening closely to his attorneys cross-examining gary farro. that is the banker facilitated the hush money payment unwittingly, i should note just troy daniels, according to his testimony, paula reid and karatay agnifilo freeman are back here with me and karen as todd blanche is out cross-examining gary i was told us it's probably going to go about an hour or so. i mean, what do you make it the the strategy of what he's doing? >> he's asking you about how many times he's not with prosecutors. he's now turning to focus back to october 26, gene, where we know the key date that we heard from this banker was october 26. that was when there was all of this kind of rush of movement from michael cohen yeah. >> well, it's also right before the election, right. so that's exactly it. themes what was motivating this and why it was such a rush. i think it's a very effective to use witness like this who is about putting records into evidence to also

try and discredit michael cohen, which is what gary farro is doing right now. distinction reading this pharaoh is saying he has no idea why the other 11, which was initially resolution llc before the one that paid stormy daniels, which we believe is going to be about karen mcdougal, why it was never opened essentially, no money was ever put into it he said that it was not a red flag, that that didn't happen. >> clearly, they were trying to draw distinction between an effort to get this one done, which the national enquirer paid her. and then the stormy daniels on which michael cohen did he followed through on what's happening now is after we have david pecker set the stage of what was going on now the prosecutors have to go through the painstaking task of proving their case beyond a reasonable doubt. and i think this week we are going to see multiple witnesses like gary farro, who are who are basically putting the pieces of the puzzle together. >> some of them are going to be very boring and just custodians

of records people from the bank saying a check clear that kind of thing who aren't going to be able to testify to things like an urgency of michael cohen or or anything that could be helpful and it's interesting because in a white-collar case, defense attorneys and prosecutors normally stipulate to a lot of this evidence because it can be boring and it can take a long time. and it just struck me this morning when donald trump was saying how he wants to be out on the campaign trail certainly if they wanted to be out on the campaign trail, they could shorten let's trial by at least a week if they were to stipulate to many of these records, custodian, that's a great point. >> they won't stipulate to anything. and so we will see some witnesses likely that are there just to get that evidence in the record, paula, i'm kind of having a bit of trouble following where todd blanche is going with this cross-examination. and what do you make? >> i think you wanna make three key points. the first is that pharaoh was assigned to cohen because he's a pain in the neck. he's a really difficult client he is shown to have been

dishonest in terms of his need to open this llc and then that this had nothing to do. this client, there's no mention of then candidate trump, now-former president trump. now, we're learning seeing that blanche has confirming that cohen indicated on the paperwork for essential consultants, llc that he was not acting as an agent of anyone when he opened the account. so there you go. blanche, making it clear that this particular witness, what he has testified to, there is no connection to his climate. the defendant, but what do you necessarily if you're michael cohen and the situation and you're opening up an llc to pay a porn star hush money. i mean, would you necessarily say oh yeah, by the way, this is on behalf of the guy who's the republican nominee for president that millions of americans will be voting for potentially next tuesday, i think we can all be very sympathetic for why they may have tried to opt you skate what they were doing here with a problem is you're lying here to a bank and as we will see going forward in the timeline, allegedly lying on more business documents, which is why there's now a criminal trial. so i completely understand why he did what he did, but that's also why we're here in court.

>> and paula, we've been talking about the new york times reporting about the tension between todd blanche to donald trump. obviously, we've covered trump and his attorneys for a long time. it is basically a known quantity that is going to happen. yeah, trump yells. everybody in his orbit, not just his attorney but i wonder what you've been hearing about that relationship in that dynamic yeah, tension on the trump legal team. >> it's like sand at the beach. it's part of the environment and for a lot of different reasons, i wanted to take one break really quickly or to say verse says do not have opened the account had he known essential consultants was a shell company and not an operating business? there's a lot of reasons that there is tension behind the scenes. first of all, being a criminal defendant is inherently stressful for everyone involved we also know on the trump legal team, there are a lot of cooks in the kitchen there. the lawyers you see in the court, there are the lord's behind the scenes. there are the lawyers calling trump from universities. there's a lot of people are yours on tv. laura exactly horizontal tv. the results sitting to there are a lot of folks and he is also a

difficult prior admittedly, client. so there's always tension behind the scenes. i'm told right now though, if things are fine, our colleagues are in there observing them interacting and look at the idea that he hasn't been aggressive for his client. i don't think that's accurate. if you look his zealous advocacy all the filings he did leading up to this trial he has been an aggressive lawyer, just because he's not throwing a fit in court throwing toys out of his pram doesn't mean that he's not aggressively representing his client. well, we've seen in other instances where attorneys like alina habba have done that and trump lost and had adly while he's appealing it, we'll see what happens there. >> and jake, i should note that this banker to michael cohen is testifying. he is saying that if he had known it was a shell corporation, that it would not have been opened. he said it would have given him pause. basically testifying about how he was misled about ultimately what this was going to do and saying that the only type of shell corporation he would open before a mortgage to term anonymous. this was certainly not that jake, though. they did want to be anonymous. i would say, yeah, absolutely. kaitlan

collins. thanks so much bill brennan, former attorney for trump it seems to me that what trump attorney todd blanche is doing right now in his cross-examination of the witness gary farrow, who is michael cohen's banker is getting gary karam to disparage with facts and his opinion that michael cohen set this up in a way that he did not think that he has come to learn was not honest. he would not have set up a shell corporation just to hide a payment other than to do so two to 200 a mortgage. in other words, if somebody doesn't want their address public but almost did well, maybe not almost specifically that michael cohen was almost deceiving him too. >> well, jake good goes back to that narrative that we discussed earlier, that if kaelyn is going rogue and he's lying to the wife and lying to the banker and he has convictions we know for lying to congress. that's the witness. that's the time that

you'll see aggression. you can't just be a rabid dog with every witness and certainly was no reason to attack ms graph. she spoke glowingly over 34 years working for mr. trump pecker was kind of middle of the road when ms clifford testifies, i think it would be very foolish. when taxonomy daniels for but i think when colon gets on that stand, it will be a bloodbath and i heard somebody say tension in the trump legal team was like sand on the beach i represented mr. trump was one of a team of lawyers representing them in a second impeachment. we represented his corporation for seven weeks in front of judge moore. i found them an easy client to deal with and i have no political agenda. i found judge merchan to be an easy judge to appear in front of. i thought the prosecutors were professional, so the clients only make a couple of decisions. they decide whether to take a jury or waive that right and try before a judge. they decide whether to plead

guilty, and they decide whether to testify after that is a grand leave the driving dusk. i mean, i don't i don't engage clients in any other decision, but those three that's i work alone basically. >> so gary farro, just a testifying that michael cohen never told him that this account he was setting up was being opened for political activity and said, elie honig and laura coates here we have, again, somebody who is a prosecution witness can use for the purpose of defense. in other words, testifying pejoratively, saying negative things about the key witness at least in many people's view, michael cohen, which is probably the effective strategy you want to plant a number of seeds here. they want michael cohen to be on trial because if this is the width now as that is going to be the best and strongest one to connect the dots which you in donald trump and throw me daniels payment. and of course was activity. they want the setup to suggest. so in front of the jury. so

you're telling me michael cohen can be believed today, please lied to congress. he's lied to really every branch of government and he's also lied to his wife and the bank but today sitting here, he signed me the truth yeah. >> gary pharaoh saying if any account was associated with an entity flagged on an office of foreign assets control list. >> the bank would automatically deny the request. well, what does that mean? i don't understand what he's keys continuing along with what would be the red flags. one question was asked earlier today was remember that account that he was supposed to open up in terms of david pecker to then pay out from that. was if that was agreed upon by pecker who rejected it, he didn't ultimately end up doing that. he's trying to suggest where there are a number of other red flags that do your due diligence could have shown you evenly. i'm telling you he was not being honest, you would have found these things and so he's looking identifying essentially saying, look, i had nothing to do. i had no while idea, but there were no red flags to make me reluctant or in any way apprehensive, ongoing right now, cross examination inside 100s centre seat, gary farro, michael

cohen's former banker telling the lead attorney for donald trump, todd blanche, that he never would have opened a shell account if michael cohen had not misled him about its purpose and october 2016, pharaoh just said that you learned cohen left the trump organization in march 2017 when he received an email, bounced back. we're going to have much more cnn special live coverage after this quick break. >> how we'd really haven't with jesse l. martin. sunday's at nine on cnn and alternative to pills ball terrane is a clinically proven arthritis pain relief gel which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medicine directly get the source volterra and the joy of movement make your first move with battery power, made by

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rocket money today, my life is full of questions is yellow dark. how do i clean any always thing. >> thankfully, ties the answer to almost all of them. >> why do we even by napkins goldwater be white so he can with time, do i need to pre-treat guacamole? oh, a time? this is trauma foot right? >> kristia is yeah. >> no matter who's doing it on what cycle wherein what temperature type works. so i can focus on all the other questions. >> can craps or eyebrows for all of life, laundry questions. it's got to be tied. >> close captioning brought to you by gilt visit gilt.com today for up to 70% off designer brands, house design is like your heart racing. i'd inside a prices you every day, hurry. there'll be gone in a flash designer sales at up to 70% off shop gilt.com today welcome back to cnn special live coverage of donald trump's hush money cover up, proud. we're going to bring you the latest from court in just a moment. but first we have other news and this breaking story protesters have barricaded themselves inside a historic

building at columbia university, breaking windows with hammers using furniture to block the doors. hundreds of other protesters are now outside by the building as of now, the nypd says columbia university administrators have not asked them to intervene. julia vargas jones is on columbia's campus for us. delete what's happening right now and what are you hearing from students? >> he's like, i'm right outside this building hamilton hall. that's the building you talking about. students are still barricaded inside. we're hearing a few dozen students assume that this is the door that you saw in that video that was damaged. this is i believe where they went any field, the furniture pushed out to keep those students in side patio furniture taking from other parts of the school, seeing this way, i think what was happening just now is that some of the supporters, there's a a couple of dozen supporters outside of this building now, we're trying to get food to the people who are inside. a reminder that this encampment

just across the campus here on the south lawn has been going on for almost two weeks. they were given a deadline by the university yesterday of 2:00 p.m. that deadline has has come and gone. they were given the opportunity to sign a piece of paper to commit to not break anymore of the university rules of conduct most of them did not sign that there were protests in that dead and then they moved to this building just to give you a little bit of a sen. there are banners they have tried to rename this as reference to a palestinian girl hind skills gaza. >> and this has the atmosphere now the big question jake is, will columbia university colin, the nypd, like they did a couple of weeks ago. >> all right. thank you so much. appreciate it. let's turn to some other big news on capitol hill democrats are coming to the rescue of

republican house speaker mike johnson this cnn's manu raju has the breaking details. manu tell us more about this. has there actually been motion to vacate filed by republicans to remove speaker johnson. >> yeah. this is a very significant news offense, essentially, democrats announcing that they will save my job johnson's speakership from the threat of marjorie taylor greene to oust him from the job. remember marjorie taylor greene, move to try to push him out every cut, several deals with democrats, one, to keep the government when open, and then the latest one to provide rafat $61 billion in aid to ukraine. she still threatening to move ahead as any one member can do as we saw last baldwin democrats voted with eight republicans to oust kevin mccarthy, the first time that ever happened in american history. this time will be different because what hakeem jeffries democratic leaders, just said in a statement saying that they would move ahead and effectively kill any effort by marjorie taylor greene to oust johnson from the speakership, citing some of the efforts including on issues about you plane say they want to move past as what jeffries calls a

quote, pro putin, republican obstruction of congress. now the question is, how long could johnson sustain that job with the the board of democrats? that's a question i just put them in a press conference and the wake of this news by the democratic leaders, whether he's comfortable having his job with a support also of democrats that speaker of the house serves the whole body. >> i'm, i am a conservative republican, a lifelong conservative republican. that's what my philosophy is. that's what my record is and will continue to govern on those principles. i mean, you know, you hope you have the support of everyone the entire country. we need to be doing the job that the framers intended for congress it's to play and that's what i'm about. i'll continue to pursue that every day and we'll keep the wheels of government functioning now, this insurance, some stability in the house, jake, after we've seen this tumultuous gop led house, really take shape over the last several months in the aftermath of that ouster of kevin mccarthy, remember that time there were 22 days or so

of nose speaker of the house was essentially paralyzed with no leader of this institution. >> but now that democrats are saying that they will essentially keep johnson then that's right is essentially moot. marjorie taylor greene could still call for that vote, but it will fail if she moves ahead. the question is, if anything changes in the weeks ahead, but democrats are saying they'll save all right, manu raju on capitol hill with all the latest thanks so much. >> and let us project. we should just know back in the courtroom, the prosecutor mangold is back on up for redirect, trying to clean up any of anything damaging the games very pharaoh may have said we're going to squeeze in a quick break as redirect starts inside cord at donald trump's hush money cover up, probably going to bring you up to speed with every room happened in dramatic morning. they're much more cnn's special coverage ahead every weekday morning thank cnn's five things has what you need to get going with your day. >> it's the five essential

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inspection, colleague. >> three three leaf filter today, more physically filtered.com i'm sunlen serfaty in washington and this is cnn any minute now, the jury will return to a manhattan courtroom following a quick recess red flag by red flag, donald trump's attorneys tried to pin the blame for an alleged hush-money cover-up scheme on michael cohen and michael cohen alone. >> we've been tracking this important testimony this morning from inside of more president's hush money trial and banker gary farro, after two minutes, two hours, and seven minutes has finished his testimony confirming that he has never spoken to donald trump. he is now off the stand. sener reporters who were also in the courtroom as all of this was happening is the judge notified donald trump that yes, he did find him in criminal

contempt of his gag order, finding him $9,000 as a result of that. i'm here outside of that courthouse would see cnn's chief legal affairs correspondent, paul henri, and also for former manhattan district attorney prosecutor karen agnifilo friedman, who was of counsel. i should note to a firm that represents michael cohen, but she doesn't have any contact with them, doesn't work on his case and no strictures restrictions on what you can say about it. we also are joined by adam kaufmann, a former executive assistant district attorney, the manhattan da's office, and adam, let me start with you on what we've been watching this morning and who we believe could potentially the next on the witness stand now that gary pharaoh has finished his testimony yeah. >> so prosecutors have been really sort of playing it close to the vast as to who they're going to call next. they've expressed concern that witnesses get identified on social media by donald trump. so they really in a trial, you share your witnesses, the

prosecution would share their witnesses. certainly for the day and here, prosecutors have been much more reserves, so it's hard to know who's going to come up next for prosecution and what do you make of what the judge did decide while we're waiting to see who is the next witness on the witness stand. >> in this gag order because i mean, he had quite a blistering statement there at the end saying, yeah, i'm finding him $9,000, but these $1,000 fines don't have the same weight when someone can easily pay them and the court doesn't have the discretion to make that fine higher than $1,000 it's frustrating when you have statutes that were written so long ago with penalties that were set so long ago that don't really it's not really much of a penalty to be the honest. >> but at the same time, i think what's important here is that judge merchan, he set some rules. he made an order the order was violated, and he held

donald trump accountable for this because violations so judge, him or sean has really sort of set a marker. he's he's he's laid down the law, if you will. and i think trump team has to know that in addition to fines, there's the possibility of jail, there's there's the possibility of sort of interim measures where someone when could be forced to attend the trial from a side room. not typically done, but i think the important thing for judge merchan is he has see a set down the law. he's he's made it clear that he won't tolerate any one disobeying his orders and that's significant unto itself, holding holding accountability for a judge's orders yeah. >> adam kaufmann, standby. it's great perspective on that and also, we know the judge here did say paula reid that if if a violation continues and we

know there's another hearing on this on thursday that jail time could be an option it's really astonishing. we're talking about possible jail time per former president of the united states logistically symbolically, what that would mean, that is a grave threat. but let's see if the former president he needs it. we know that there are a lot of conservative it's conservative pundits who have advocated to him that navy you should stop violating the gag order, use your airtime, use all this attention to campaign and get a message across to voters. please start with past few days. that is what we have seen him do. >> he's also found a workaround. >> yet another one, this time having allies on the hill, nick, the arguments about this case, about the prosecution, about the judge that trump campbell, he can make problems about the judge, but he appears to want to have his allies on capitol hill make these arguments as some of them would be a violation of the gag order. let's see if he sticks with that and keeps campaigning or hurry reverts back the curing the issue here is trump it away from what we've heard. what would relish having jail

time imposed on him by this judge because he would be able to use it. i don't think anyone thinks trump actually wants to go to jail despite any provider that we see publicly. >> but he could use it politically as a tool yeah. well, this trial has a political aspect to it as well as a justice aspect to it. and the judge here really can only focus on the justice aspect of it and getting a verdict, whatever it may be. at the finish line, the political aspect really can't be considered by anyone in that courtroom. >> and polo, we're getting an update right now. there i should note there's no witness on the stand and the jury is not inside the courtroom right now, but what we are hearing is that there are discussions happening between prosecutor trump's attorney and the judge and prosecutors are arguing to get some text message into evidence as the jury is out on the break. i mean, they have these conversations outside of the earshot of the jury and then it's a decision whether or not the jury could hear them later on. >> yeah, that's exactly right.

so here, prosecutors want to get some text messages and as evidenced what they need to make a decision outside of the jury. so as not to prejudice them, especially if the text messages aren't allowed in. but i think really important point is on the karen made earlier, which is a lot of the witnesses that we heard at the end of friday that we expect to hear today. >> this is all about moving evidenced in this is about validating paperwork. >> there's a lot of this could have been stipulated so it's unclear why the trump team is incident sitting on using up so much time to get a lot of this evidence and when it could be stipulated to you, but there are always gonna be some issues, but they can agree on. so the judge is going to have to decide about this text messages we don't know what they are, but if they're allowed in, we will i mean, what's a significance of the jury being able as their hearing from bankers. so here in complex things about, i mean, maybe some of them have taken down a home equity line of credit and are familiar with that, but they're hearing these efforts to go and get bank accounts llcs and then not actually funding them in this, but then also being able to see the text messages themselves between people liked stormy

daniels, which we should note this, that's what this evidence that they would like to have entered into the record is. prosecutors want to get messages from stormy down then publicist to the ami executive dylan howard. we know he's been at the center of all of this and they want to be able to get them into the record because they believe they'll help contextualize other messages. it all goes back to the narrative they're trying to paint here. >> yeah, texts, things like emails, text messages, things that are contemporaneous with time that these things happen are great corroboration of witness testimony that is relying on things like memory that can fade over time, or if the cross examination of a witness calls into question their credibility. you like to have that kind of contemporary rainiest exchanges that reinforce that. >> what about this? >> we're prosecutors are saying that if this is matthew colangelo's one of the prosecutors that trouble was attacking ready to leave before the gag order was expanded they want if trump does get on the stand, if he does get up there and testified they want to be able to use the gag order

violations during the cross-examination. what would be the point of prosecutors doing? >> so that's what matt colangelo's doing right now, is he's essentially asking the judge to revisit his sandoval ruling and sandoval is the case that you have to ask permission in advance. what are the prior bad acts that you want to be able to to cross-examine the defendant about if he should take the span that's where the defense will weigh i'm sorry, the judge will weigh the probative value versus prejudicial effect. i think colangelo's wants to bring in the gag order violations because a the judge found beyond a reasonable doubt that donald trump did violate the gag order, that it was willful that he did it intentionally and on purpose. and it shows that he puts his own interests above that of what someone else will tell him. and that's essentially will goes to the heart of what committing a crime is, right when you, when you're charged with a crime, what you're saying to the jury, what your argument to the jury's this is an individual

who will put their interest over that of societies. they will break the law and say what i want is more important and really violating a gag order willfully beyond a reason so we'll doubt is essentially that same thing. and so it's a pretty powerful thing that you want to show the jury so that you can argue on summation at this is the kind of person who will put his own interests above that of society. and that's why you shouldn't believe him paula yeah, that would be incredibly difficult for the defensive if these are allowed in because remember, at least one of the gag order violations was directed at the jury the impossibly imperiling their safety. >> so good point. yeah. this will be a really significant issue if the judge allows this in. i mean, i would consider that an enormous loss for the defense and something that could really we parse this case here. >> well, how would the jury i mean, i think one question is, how would they see trump attacking these witnesses as they are set to get on the stand and you are going to see them come forward and testify and to be able to see that in time site, and they'd be able

to ask trump about his post about michael cohen and stormy daniels and others speaking out, the prosecution says it wants to introduce evidence to show that the defendant's attempts to dissuade witnesses like michael cohen and stormy daniels through a public pressure campaign and retaliation. >> look, this issue was previewed in the defense's opening statement that they believe that stormy daniels and michael cohen have made a lot of money off of either attacking trump or because of their involvement with trump. now, the prosecutors go on to say that the defense open the door to these arguments in their opening statement criticizing cohen and daniels for saying their financial livelihoods depend on attacking dependent. so the jury is going to see the whole cohen daniel's trump triangle play out through the prosecution's case and likely the defense as well. and i'm sure there's some jurors who may feel yeah, it seems inherently unfair that cohen can call you names. we can in her feet on tv, but you can't punch back but again, it wasn't just cohen and daniels who he has attacked in violating the gag order.

>> that is, the jury may not see it in a sympathetic way to stormy daniels and michael cohen, or at least not all 12 of them. we don't know how they would see up, but they may see it as well. >> these are people who are attacking donald trump. >> donald trump should be able to respond ban to them exactly. >> it cuts both ways and that's why the judge is going to weigh that. and we'll decide which one c right there. they saying the prosecutor says this would be evidence of trump's consciousness guilt that he's going out and attacking these witnesses, and that's what that's what the prosecutors want to argue. they want to be able to argue that this shows that he's guilty right. because if that he knows that when he did was wrong and they want to be able to make that argument. >> why are they arguing this now, i mean, why at this point and to try, is it because the judge just found this morning? trump did violate the gag order and they now want to drew to do that, or i would expect yeah, they needed to wait for the finding and now that the judge's issue, this are these gag order violations, they're bringing it up. you just pretty swift turnaround. i've got to say get us part and todd blanche saying he wants to know more about what prosecutors had planned to do to ask witnesses

or ask trump if he does get on stand about these gag order violations? exactly. that's exactly right. this is the reason they're doing this now is because of the gag order, violent relations, but also what colangelo's said is that in the opening statements, todd blanche, open the door to some of these issues, meaning now they are relevant. now we should be able to bring this up. now this is something, judge. i want you to reconsider your earlier your earlier ruling and let us and let us put this in part of what trump is. >> one of the violations was where he brought up. he said he just found the order from six-year or the statement from six cheers to go from stormy daniels where she denied that they had an affair, which that is something that we do expect. you probably get asked about why did her statement change paula between dao now and then trump was trying to use that against her. >> yeah absolutely. they will absolutely use that against her shoulder, explained things that away if you have a chance to watch the new documentary that she put out, again, the defense is probably going to bring that up as well. again, she's

profiting off of this. she can talk about this part of her story, but initially she did she did deny that she didn't not what the story to get out at the outset and, uh, judges basically saying, well, if that door has been opened, we'll talk about it when these witnesses are on the stand themselves, he is now asking the prosecutor can to explain their aims for presenting the evidence. they're trying. he's trying to find out what's your purpose, what is what is your intention here? and what are you trying to do with this type of evidence? interestingly, what this also tells me is clearly we knew that michael cohen is going to be called as a witness, but this also i think shows that they are planning on calling stormy daniels to the witness stand. and bacchic that's significant because it was unclear. they haven't given their witness list, but it was also unclear. would they call stormy daniels? would they call dino sajudin the door man? would they call karen mcdougal? they don't need to call these witnesses. i suspect they're not going to call the doorman or karen

mcdougal, but this this exchange is telling me that prosecutors are gearing up for stormy daniels to testify. >> well, and basically what prosecutors are saying is that they want to argue that these witnesses are not here to benefit from it because obviously that was something that todd blanche previewed mentioning that documentary, mentioning michael cohen and his podcasts, they're saying that they've benefited from this. they want to be able to talk to the witnesses and say that they they haven't benefited the second they say is to explain why both witnesses initially denied certain facts. michael cohen's testimony to congress, what stormy daniels is said, and those public statements. and i say the third is just showed trump's consciousness of guilt. do those posts show consciousness of guilt? >> they're going to try to establish that, right? why is he attacking them now, i think the defense could also come back at that and say, no, he wants to punch back. he was attacked. i also want to go to this idea of cohen and stormy daniels. you've benefiting from this. i want to note that for both of them their livelihood, their ability to make money was seriously impaired by the fallout from

their attractions with chat okay. >> paula reid, karen standby. these are critical exchanges that are happening between his attorneys as the prosecution is suggesting, i want to use these gag order violations and the judge found this morning, should the former president take the stand as he has said, he plans to do? i think that they can show chuck trying to intimidate potential witnesses through public pressure. we have much more on this update as we wait for the next witness to be called to the stand, much more seen and special lot coverage in minutes every piece of evidence tells a story how would really hammered jesse oh, martin, sunday's at nine on cnn can the riva support your brain health? >> married janet, hey eddie. know appraiser, franck, franck, bread. how are you fred, fuel up to seven brain health

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do you take it for? and for fast topical pain relief, china leave x i'm kevin liptak at the white house. and this is cnn welcome back and we're waiting for the prosecution to call its next witness in the hush money cover up trial of donald trump attorneys are locked in important discussions right now over what evidence they can use the question witnesses, including potentially the former president of the united states. let's bring back my panel. and mr. brennan, you have said that donald trump, when he was one of your winning use, your client you all he was not difficult to deal with it all but i mean, you saw relevant i mean, there were some passionate exchanges. >> there are some things we disagreed on, but i really tried to treat all my clients the same, whether it's only former president i've ever represented, but i mean, i treat them like the guy that runs the elevator that gets charged with a crime. >> so look, people will have

passionate opinions about wanting to be defended is zealously as possible. and attorneys pushing back as you explained, that, being strategic might be better suited for the client's interests. >> but when we read about todd blanche sanchez, lead attorney in this case, and mr. trump having disagreements how do you imagine those disagreements playing out, giving your experience, i don't think it's uncommon is lauren elias former prosecutors? >> know and elie said earlier, these are stressful situations he's a passionate guy. and i think think that it's, i don't think you should read too much into impassioned exchanges, but the lawyer has to make those tactical decisions other than the three that we talked about earlier plead guilty or not guilty, judge or jury, and testify and i'll testify the lawyer must maintain control at that trial. convince mr. blanche will do that and to that point about the strategic decisions that are defense

layer makes. let's look at the cross-examination of gary farro, the banker which just concluded, todd blanche went and did a very narrow focused cross-examination. it tough what a half-hour or so any established i think two key points that the jury will take away. number one, michael cohen dupes, everyone. he do you he lied to you, his banker. and number two, your contacts, mr. banker, were with michael cohen. you never had any communication with donald trump? that's it two takeaways. >> simple. didn't need to annihilate them. strategic. >> here's also an a moment that you're hearing about in the quorum while the jury was out of the room, and that's the idea of this of allowing essentially the defense counsel open the door and the opening statements and in the conversations surrounding what testimony they wanted to come in defense, they're arguing now has opened the door to essentially suggesting that swarming daniel's, karen mcdougal, michael cohen was ugly profited from their disdain for donald trump. it's almost a very enticing feature for prosecution ago, i have good now how can i get some testimony and that i really want to get it and to suggest that somehow you have, you

yourself have a bias against these people or the statements you don't last two here are important the case, so watch for that as the judge rejected in the courtroom at some point soon to actually confirm whether he's going to allow testimony around that very point to come in. >> so very interesting and casey and jamie so the prosecution is trying to establish that michael cohen set up these accounts or at count one singular in delaware got a home equity loan, but that money in that account to pay off stormy daniels and later was reimbursed by donald trump and the question is whether the falsification of business records, which is a misdemeanor was carried out in surveillance in service to a different crime, even if it's a misdemeanor and those and the combination of those misdemeanors makes the boss vocation business records of a felony but donald trump has not been consistent on whether or not he even paid michael cohen back his argument today is that

was just like paying for a lawyer. he is just a retainer, but even on that simple issue, he's been all over the map, jamie. >> so let's go back april 5, 2018. this is to bill's point they're trying to perhaps say that michael cohen went rogue so on april 5th, donald trump is on air force one. he goes back to talk to the press. he's asked about this. he famously says he doesn't know anything about it. and then says you'll have to ask michael cohen about it. but less than a month later on may 3rd, he actually says that he did know about it. he he tweets about it and admits that he did know about it and pay cohen and i'm just looking back at our old coverage from that time, president donald trump is shifting his story about the stormy daniels controversy

following the revelation by his lawyer, rudy giuliani so what happens in real time is he says, i don't know. rudy says, oh yes, it did happen this way. >> and donald trump actually then admits it. that doesn't have to do with the particulars of this case of falsifying business records. but this it's a case of unreliable narrator versus unreliable narrator, right? >> and it does not appear michael cohen went rogue and the prosecutors have trump on the record here. well, and there's a little bit of a challenge, too. i think you can see all the ways in which you can make an argument about michael cohen's credibility, right? and why it should be undermined. we have them on record. for lying to congress. he's he's he pled guilty to that although he if he were here, he would say lying in congress in service to mr. trump, right. >> well, so that's the second half of my point. is that this idea that michael cohen has gone rogue, doesn't track just because michael cohen was

always trying to do everything he possibly could please, and execute on whatever it was you see you soon as you've seen, this with, trump walking back into the courtroom after the brief recess they took about a 25-minute risa who didn't speak to cameras, then when he left at or just now either which is coming interesting an interesting choice. i just, i get a court of law and obviously, laura and you and your colleagues and others can speak to the exact he tells what they need to prove and the context of the case. but as i think about this kind of politically and holistically, in terms of the jury is they're going to have to make these way these things as well. >> is it plausible that michael cohen did this over the objection of donald trump? >> we really think he would do this objection of donald trial. >> if i find that really hard to believe. well, that's that's gonna be the prosecution has gotten how to meet their burden, throwing that michael cohen himself has not been able to yet articulated. remember this infamous comments at the hearing for congress was that there was always intimation by donald trump. he now the idea of as a nice house she got here. >> but you really do need to show that there is the intent. >> this is the person, the

person on your screen right now with this look on his face, is the one who is the founded in this action until you have deal to show there were some sort of a direct order that was for political purpose to commit another crime or hide it. and they've got that burden yeah, let's let's go to elie honig is such a such a good commentator. >> we gave him a wall jake we're gonna go through the gag order now because we've finally gotten the long awaited ruling from the judge really important to understand what the gag order does and does not prohibit it's actually quite narrow. >> the only things that donald trump is not allowed to comment on under the gag order or witnesses. jurors, and then courtroom staff, prosecutors staff, and their families. that's it. everything else is in play. donald trump is allowed to end, has quite aggressively criticize the judge himself, the district attorney himself, the indictment itself, the gag order itself. now, we just got the first ruling from the judge a few hours ago on the gag order, there were ten alleged violations the judge found that nine of them em had been proven

that donald trump had violated the gag order nine times. there's still four more pending. we're going to have a hearing on those on thursday and let's look through what the penalty is going to be. the judge has very limited options here. all the judge can do is the following one. he can issue a reprimand. he did that if you read the rolling, the judge really excoriate donald trump the second thing he can do is levy of financial fine. but the problem is the max under an old new york laws only $1,000 per find. here the judge max that out and find donald trump $9,000. and maybe most importantly, the judge does have the power to issue a sentence of imprisonment of up to 30 days. of course, the judge has not done that but he does have specific language in his ruling saying to donald trump, if you keep this up, i just may go down that road. so we're part of the way now, jade, through working through this gag order issue, the judges come out with a very strong ruling excoriating donald trump for his violations. more to come on thursday. >> all right. >> thank you so much interest. just doing stuff. bill brennan,

what's your take on the gag order is it i mean, i know the judge is in a difficult spot on it but how do you think is what would be an effective way to habits so that this trial can proceed without inappropriate comments made about the witnesses and the jurors and the like. but right now, by the way, judge, more sean is telling todd blanche trump's attorney let's try to keep the brakes short, adding that he doesn't like to keep the jury waiting. let's do better. >> the judge said, i guess the nets offense took too long a break downs very familiar. >> i'm having flashbacks, judge. merchan moves along. i think the problem is that the as elie points out, the gag order really has no teeth. there's not a lot that he can do. the jail a possibility is really fraught with problems because of this particular defendant, but i wanted to just say one thing casey's point. i don't think it's mutually

exclusive. that cohen could have gone rogue and still tried to act not at the behest of, but on behalf of trump because cohen, like willie chichi and godfather to column provides a buffer you remember that seems families got a lot of buffers. senator collins is a buffer and that was a great question that blanche elicited response from a pharaoh that you never talked to trump. he never saw trump. >> you know, you talked to deal with term ball. >> you you talked that cohen and i think if because you must remember, there's a vitriol between these two guys now, but at that point in time, cohen made the statement odd, take a bullet for you, mr. trump this guy was a sycophant, a suck up, and he'd do anything he could to please donald trump at that time to play that for those of you out there googling william chichi ci cci judges back on

the bench in donald trump's hush money to cover up trial. we just just watch donald trump walk back into the courtroom. we're waiting for the prosecution to call its next witness. the answer to a courtroom mystery ahead with much more cnn threshold live coverage, stay with us so this playoffs, great key-based trust each other. we're going to do a trust balls, stand up, trust. >> what you're let me up. doc told you, here's a dummy kinda riva support your brain health. mary janet, hey eddie, know, fraser, franck. franck, bred. how are you? >> fred fuel up to seven brain health indicators, including your memory, joined the neretva brain health challenge, where kind of ana, we created a brand new way for you to sell your car, go to carve mauna, answers your questions, and our techno wizardry calculates your car's value and gives you a real offer in seconds we'll come to

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the answer to our guessing game of who is the next witness inside the court? dr. robert browning get name that you're not familiar with or really many of us. the fourth witness, now at donald trump's hush money cover of trial this is who he is. >> he is the executive director of the c-span archives. and right now a prosecutor as handling the questions to him. we just learned that browning is testifying under subpoena. he told the jury they traveled from indiana to give this testimony and that he is a little nervous as he is on the witness stand. and karen, i think for people at home, we're wondering okay. we've heard from the national enquirer. we've heard from trump's assistant. we heard from michael cohen's banker. why is the executive director of the c-span archives now, taking the witness stand, it all goes back to what you were talking about earlier, which is trump's legal team won't stipulate anything. so they have to bring up these witnesses to get evidence into the record. >> yeah. so gary farro, who just testified, i could see why trump's lawyers didn't stipulate to him. they had actual stuff they wanted to get out through him like was

michael cohen in a rush? was he always hurried? was he did you deal with trump directly, but i suspect although i don't know because we haven't heard what he has to say that dr. browning will not have much to say other than he's going to be putting into for the record tapes. right. or video of certain footage that they want in because it says he's from c-span archives. he's not going to i don't think have any dealing directly with anybody. this is just a matter of getting records in that are videos in from a particular date or time this is something easily that they could have stipulated to. i would expect that they're probably not going to cross-examine him at all if apologist he's explaining to the jury what i networked pool is obviously as former white house correspondents, we're well aware it's essentially when the president of the united states is somewhere instead of bringing it, every single reporter who's assigned to cover him, they choose one

representative for each media, one person from broadcast, one person from radio, one person from print. >> it goes in and handles that c-span. obviously has a nonstop still nonstop stream of all of this this footage. and so he's having to tell the jury about these mundane things just to get this evidence vincent, to the record, this poor guy. >> i mean, he says he flew in from indiana. he says he's a little nervous and you can perfectly understand that i think does the archives at cspan and now he's testifying in the biggest story in the world. he just said, while the event is taking place and talking about the pool, there's a producer who is watching the video from beginning to end to make sure there's no interruptions transmission. and as you've just laid out, of course, the jury won't know how a pool works, but he's explaining how resources are pooled so that everyone has access to what is going on. and as we can also attest that in the trump administration the in these pools were huge deal because he was constantly making news. he would say something that would change the course of the day. and here, he likely said some things we know he said some things that they're likely going to introduce that were captured by the pool and are now going to be key this is of

evidence, but i really feel for this guy, aids or reminder, this is an everyday person just trying to do his job, much like the folks at the national archives who were brought into another criminal investigation. now at the center are the biggest story in the world we are grateful for dr. brodie. everyone loves to c-span, especially news nodes, but karen, can i just ask you because i mean, essentially, this is delaying the trial. this is dragging the trial out even further. i guess i should say, which is notable given trump's team won't stipulate to just have say yes this video is donald trump bore or this is that and they've also been complaining about how long this trial is taking and keeping him off the campaign trail. yet they're doing something only makes the trial last longer know. >> yeah, that's exactly right. and i think at a certain point it'll become clear that that's what's happened binning although this is very interesting, right? he's explaining that c-span digital video library has 278,000 digital hours to date these are tidbits of information that are nice to know. an interesting and jurors probably don't know

this information. we don't know this formation off the top of our head, but as you said, kaitlan, it is definitely delaying things. is this really critical in terms of determining whether he's guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. >> avi the jury is getting a special kind of treat this morning as they are hearing and explain even what c-span is to the jury, really getting into the mundane details, adam kaufmann is back with us. he is the former executive assistant district attorney in the manhattan district attorney he's office so he knows this. well. i mean, is this something that would be typical, i guess having to get the executive director of the c-span archives on the witness stand in the first criminal trial of a former president. and i should note he is now saying that he received subpoena atom from your former office to turn over recordings of donald trump that are in csp bans archives right? >> so this is what happens in trials. the most exciting, interesting trial in the world is going to have witnesses who

are just unbelievably boring because you have to put into into evidence, you have to lay what's called a foundation. there's certain legal questions that have to be asked before documents, photos, video can be brought in and shown to the jury. it is often stipulated, but some defense teams decide they're not going to stipulate to anything which is apparently what's happened here. but yeah, in any trial was going to be these downtimes witnesses who just are just are there for technical reasons and it's just you have to just kinda get through them and the jury sits and listens. and it's it's sort of a non issue and you won't be referred to again in the trial probably. but there's some piece of evidence or some video that the prosecution wants to show. and that's what's going on. race now well, i'm sure mr. browning himself is fascinating and the archives of c-span are also fascinating detailing us history. >> but i should note the prosecution is now entering clips into evidence. these are

clubs that are being scribed by tidal. they are not actually being played in an atom. how, how much longer would this make the case go if they won't stipulate to anything it's hard to say without knowing what the body of evidence that the total amount of evidence and need to bring in i mean, what we're seeing is this witness might just let's be 2030 minutes. if that and then the question is, how many other witnesses are they going to have to call this witness can move in all of the evidence that if subpoenaed from c-span. if they have other records that they're trying to move in. i don't know. they could have different tv stations that have archived footage get different things. they could have documents. we're certainly going to see this with bank records that they're going to have to lay the foundation. and so it's hard to know how long this will take in total, because you just don't know how many different foundation

witnesses they're going to have to call. so it's sort of up in the air and i think for those two are watching this so intently, these are times when maybe take a break and grab something from the fridge and then come back to see when the live action starts again. >> all right. adam kaufmann. thank you for that. and as we are watching the next witness in donald trump's criminal hush money case testify right now, they are basically introducing videos and evidence. one from january 11, 2017 in a news conference being held by then president elect trump before he was inaugurated as the president of the united states. but well after he had won the election, and paula and karen, i mean, is we're looking at what they're trying to do here. what the clearly with the prosecution they they introduced first a really interesting witness, david pecker from the national enquirer, to go into this effort. in the middle of this

though is we're going to like to see a lot of witnesses who were like this. >> yeah. >> eventually once we get through all of this evidence introduction, they need this evidence so that when those witnesses like i hope hicks or stormy daniels, or eventually michael cohen take the stand and they can refer to these. but as we said repeatedly, it is a little surprising that they haven't stipulated some of this, but some of these video clips they're gonna be introduced. >> i mean, these were big moments where you saw trump really changing his story repeatedly about the allegations about stormy daniels and karen mcdougal. >> that's why they will be valuable. not right this second, but later on when prosecutors and defense attorneys question these other bigger witnesses, and a lot of this, i assume. i mean, the public record is immense and with trump's denials because that first year in office, i remember being in the briefing room at the white house press secretaries. we're getting questions about the women and their allegations against trump, including stormy daniels as this reporting was all getting becoming public, trump was asked about this on the south lawn of the white house. he was asked about it at press conferences the were questions

about it in a briefing room. there are many moments where trump has publicly weighing in on what he's been denying. >> yeah, so it's gonna be interesting the prosecution is going to probably use in their case and argue if he changes the story, right? it's not the truth because he's changing his story over and over again. and whenever you have public statements like this by a defendant, they can be used. >> and this is the one being the clipping played right now in court it's trump in 2016, october say gets a phony deal. i have no idea who these women aren't. that timeline is notable because october 2016 is when michael cohen is scrambling to get first republic bank on the phone to open up this llc to get one of those women hundred and $30,000? yes. so these are the kind of details that the prosecution will wrap up in summation, they'll take all these dates that are being put into the record, whether it was rhona graff putting certain calendar entries into the record or here they're talking about something that happened

in october 2016. those all of that will come into to focus in summation, when the prosecution ties it all together and tells everyone with a significance is like. you just did. >> yeah. and as we noted, the prosecution now, in during video clips of donald trump, quotes from him, october 2016, denying that he knew the women who said they had sexual encounters with we have much more of everything that is happening inside the courtroom live just ahead trump hush money, trial, gavel to gavel coverage. >> the weight only cnn can bring it to you. legal incidence item expert analysis and real-time updates live from the courtroom. follow the facts, follow the testimony follows cnn. you're calling some people find there's at early age, others later in life no matter when you find it, consider yourself lucky because it becomes your everything are call plane was to build trucks

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gilt.com today welcome back to cnn special live coverage. the prosecution just called. its fifth witness to the stand as witnesses named philip thompson and katelyn. this is a court reporter yeah. >> jake, this is filled thompson. he is here to get some court reported as a court reporter, works court reporting, affirm and he is here to essentially get transcript from a deposition into the record of evidence here. that is what we are watching play out right now. these are not household names that people are knowing. it's not even names that those of us who follow this incredibly closely. no, but the reason this is happening is because donald trump's team essentially won't stipulate to anything which means that they won't say yes, our client did say in october 2016 a denial of any sexual encounters with these women or when it comes to the deposition depositions that he has given where he's been asked about this, as we know, and moments with e. jean

carroll and others and so they're having to bring in these mundane witnesses, not representative the individuals themselves, but to come in and to get these facts into the records so they can use it as they paint this larger picture of this effort to pay stormy daniels this money. and as they say and as they allege falsifying business records and i should note that this person filled thomson says that he is testifying on behalf of subpoenaed the last witness who was just object, was only up for a mere matter of minutes. he was not cross-examined by trump's team. it's just an effort by the da's office here to get this evidence into the record, jake. >> all right. kaitlan collins. thanks so much. and bill and elie, we were talking about the very fact that the prosecution feels compelled to introduce a gentleman from c archives just to testify that at least three video clips are real. >> and now this gentleman, philip thompson, a court reporter, with esquire deposition solutions this is not normal.

>> the reason that they are having to have these individuals testify. this deposition is real. this video clip is real, is because there is no willingness between the prosecution and the defense to work together. is that right? but it sounds like i mean, lab will tell you if ellie was privacy putin occasion i was defending it. all the mundane business records in the lake we would stipulate to that. we would leave the jury with the issues in dispute, but we're not in the courtroom. i don't know what's going on, but it sounds like there's a line in the sand. we won't stipulate that today is tuesday. we won't stipulate that you're jake tapper approve it and it sounds like that's what's going on and make for a little bit of a longer trial, a little more of a boring trial. >> so nine times out of ten, you'll have those stipulations. you do it before trial. one piece of paper i'd sign it. defense lawyer it says, hey, these video clips of cspan, they are video clips from c-span these deposition transcripts. they're deposition transcript. but you do see sometimes the defendant who

just isn't a no way. i'm not cooperating mode to heck with you. and it seems like trump's erin, and i guess the question is, to whose benefit or detriment will this ultimately go? because on the one hand, it will extend the trial was because they couldn't it mean that he could get back out on the campaign trail? hello, faster? >> so it will extend the trial. the jury, though tends to blame prosecutors if a trial drags because you're the one who's controlling the evidence and the jury wouldn't necessarily know like, hey, ordinarily they'd be stipulating to this. so it's a mixed bag and that's let's say not dimension sitting here right now, these jurors have been gone since really friday, right? it's tuesday and they're hearing their eyes are probably glazing over there, probably wondering again what this case about exactly what are we proving here that c-span actually exists, that there was a transcript? >> i would refocus everyone just for a second here on really what we have to focus on if you're the jury, where the court of public opinion remember what the prosecution has to prove. >> the prosecution has said here was a quote from their opening statements. this case is about a criminal conspiracy

and a cover-up, an illegal conspiracy to undermine the integrity of a presidential election. and then the steps that donald trump took to conceal that illegal election fraud. meanwhile, you get the difference fence no, no, no, this is about him fighting back with he always does, he's entitled to do to protect his family reputation and his brand. and matt is not a crime. this important from the delay tactic that we use. think about before a trial actually begins, it really plays out during the courtroom as well. i want if i'm defense attorney, i want you thinking every single step of it really, this is why we're prosecuting trump. really this is why we're here really, we have a c-span present coming in meanwhile, you're more and more detached and what the prosecution wants you to focus on, which essentially is the conspiracy are talking about. >> so we just got it. we just we just got in a new courtroom sketch. i'm not sure. it's available yet. it's jane rosenburg as the court for room artist will bring that to you when we get it again. oh, here it is. there is donald trump talking to his second son, eric trump. there's another one. i

believe from also from jane rosenburg of mr. trump, as gary farro no, that's not it. gary farro, michael cohen's banker, testifying are there it is the inimitable style of jane rosenburg. so some of the, some of the clips that are from c-span, casey and jamie, one of them is october 2016, donald trump in gettysburg, pennsylvania, on a campaign stop his own little gettysburg address where he said, every he said he's talking about the accusations from women you might remember this part of the campaign. it's not just the stormy daniels thing bubbling behind the scenes in front of the cameras are a number of women alleging sexual assault, sexual harassment ever quote, every woman lied when they came forward to hurt my campaign. total fabrication, mr. trump said the events never happened bend never. all of these layers will be sued after the election is over in point of fact, none of them were sued, will have to squeeze in a quick break. we're

tracking testimony from prosecution witness number five. much more. cnn's special coverage ahead. stay with us we're going to type games. you're going to see players. what on the line here is on the way we keep playing because everyone is an exponent 76, there's next placers box coverage begins tonight at 6:30. >> nba playoffs presented by google pixel with around one coverage presented by nerdwallet on tnt bad dad holding you back all your ambitions, all in one low fixed rates, borrow up to 100 hey, no fees required. >> so phi, get your money, right how far would you go to control the fragrance in your home? >> there's an easier way. dry

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200 coventry direct redefining insurance i mourn liebermann at the pentagon and this cnn welcome, come back to cnn special live coverage. the former president's eyes are reportedly closed again as he listens to testimony from the third prosecution witnesses. good day. >> he is philip thompson it's an employee at a court transcription company. >> that company was subpoenaed to provide video and transcripts of trump's deposition in the e. jean carroll defamation case. we're waiting this. he just exactly

where the prosecution goes with this line of questioning and kasie hunt, what's interesting here is we're as a courtroom junkies and courtroom drama junkies used to. so stipulated, meaning that the defense and prosecution are both agreeing that this video of donald trump's saying that all the women are lying who are accusing him is actually video of him saying that. but in this case, that's not happening the defense apparently refused to agree to such a stipulation proposed by the prosecution for their witnesses. so right now you have mr. thompson, philip thompson, who's just a court reporter testifying that the transcript of the video deposition of donald trump for the e. jean carroll case is actually the transcript. but before i go to you, i want to bring up the jane rosenburg sketch that i requested before. it's donald trump listening in intently as a connoisseur of courtroom sketches, i find this century could get rid of that lower third. i just just want to get the wrenching of the

neck captured in your nacho on it. all right. anyway, and that's gary pharaoh michael cohen's banker on the stand there being redirected by are being cross-examined by trump's attorney. anyway pocketed i mean, that is how many times have we seen have we seen donald trump take that pose and he's listening to someone or in a press conference, it's a really fabulous saying. >> well, i just wanted to show you, but anyway, it's just like if you really if you look at this they're not sure. they cut off the neck for some reason, but it's donald trump listening intently in the courtroom sketch anyway, yes. no we're not allowed to know four cameras in the courtroom, so we have to go by these sketches and descriptions and then this one, he is listening intently and i thought that was interesting. >> yeah. no, i mean, i think one of the most interesting reporting that i feel like we're getting out of there is the texture and color from our reporters were actually able to be there in the room because

because i think we know again, i keep going back to this as much as i am into the courtroom drama. >> it's not my area of expertise but this really does have such a political situation. i political context, right? >> a it. >> and so the things that donald trump is interested in when he's writing these long notes to his lawyer it does show that he does have to be very engaged in la. i can't remember it was you and i that we're that we're talking about this, but we touched on the length of the trial and these stipulations that we're now seeing here do prolong the trial. >> let me just interrupt for one second. i apologize. prosecutors again, the fallback, we don't get to see the trial so why we i mean interrupting wiser people than myself, like you and everyone else here. but prosecutors were told or playing a clip from the e. jean carroll deposition of donald trump, in which mr. trump describes what truth social is that's his social media company has alternative to twitter and that is being played right now. please continue. interesting. no, i'm interested to see where they're going with this, but i mean,

ellie, we talked about how first of all, prolonging this trial you are saying that might play fine with the jury hired to sit there at trial and the stress of that. i mean, how do you think that factors absolutely. being on trial is grueling. i mean, it is physically exhausting it as mentally exhausting for everybody. certain i probably for the defendant more than anyone else as a prosecutor, i was always paranoid about i do not want the jury to think this is dragging i did not want the jury getting bored. i did not want them looking at their watches eventful, resentful because they're going to blame, you as a prosecutor, you're the one with the burden of proof. you're the one calling the witnesses. you're the one putting on their case. and i always believed that jurors have way shorter attention spans, then we give them credit for and so to me, when we got to the point where it started to feel like things were dragging that would really bother me. i would worry about that from the prosecutor's perspective and look right now. >> i mean, we're hearing the jurors likely for all of them, the very first time they're

hearing donald trump's voice in this courtroom is through the video deposition thinking about the timing of this ellie's point as this laws as you've got the ebb and flow of attention spans, you go from documents to transcripts to the front page. now, you have trump saying and the clip. it's a platform that's been opened by me as an alternative to twitter. they have a second clip there playing where he confirms that he has been married to melania trump's since 2005 i've he is they're having his voice. he's not testifying, but his voice in the courtroom now now imagine the jurors, all of a sudden, pepin, right? backup, right there. now, remembering this part of the trial as opposed to even earlier, he's leaning and close the monitor in front of him while the video is being played, those jurors are going to have a bit of a wimbledon neck. they get the ranch after paying attention, but looking back and forth to figure out how is he responding this wondering now they're intrigued. remember it's a performance by these prosecutors. they are putting on april 4 now, he's being asked the next clip about the access hollywood tape. well, welcome to the espresso shot in

this courtroom today, they now are invested all the wind to the defense team may have had before pointing out about michael cohen, maybe maybe being an aggravating client difficult and beyond. now, we're back to what the prosecution wants to refocus on. the person who is the defendant in what he's saying. and so as it ebbs and flows, expect to have more pops of color like this showing up because they're aware. that just that just the point here. just to reiterate, is that the prosecution has the burden of proving that donald trump was engaged in this hush money scheme, was engaged in the cover-up of the hush money scheme and was doing so substantially because of his as the prosecution puts it, election interference. i don't know that it's what i would call election interference, but he was certainly trying to impact the election, but by hiding information as opposed to build brennan's point about the defense is going to say this is about his marriage, not about his campaign, and that is the context they're trying to provide here. a donald trump and melania trump had been married since 2005. b, this

alleged interlude with stormy daniels happened in 2006 see, that access hollywood tape breaking at the beginning of october 2016 yeah. >> can i save just two other reasons why they may not be stipulating this addition to dragging. >> one is, what do we know? thanks to maggie haberman and john swan this morning. trump does not feel his lawyers are are fighting enough being aggressive. this is one way for his lawyers to show. you see we're just going to go at them. i don't know. >> yes. in the deposition, this is from the e. jean carroll deposition. the trump is asked that's you in the video speaking. and he says, yes, correct? there's not gonna be any cross-examination. and now we have a new witness, keith davidson, who is the attorney former attorney for both stormy daniels and karen mcdougal. but the prosecution, they're interviewed, this testimony that this gentleman from the

court reporting organization and all this information was all this evidence was introduced and then the defense did not cross-examine him, which is a form of stipulation, i suppose kaitlan collins yeah, from the executive director of the c-span archives to a court reporter to now keith davidson. this is quite a whirlwind for this jury inside this courtroom, jake and pollen and karen pauling care. i mean, kids david said is at the center of all of this because he was the attorney x, i should note it's stormy daniels would would probably emphasize as that had she been on this panel no longer world or her? yes, she is anytime she would like to come and speak, he is no longer representing her, but he was the one who is negotiating these agreements on behalf of karen mcdougal with the national enquirer, david pecker, but also for stormy daniels in contact with michael cohen directly? yeah. >> that's why he's such a key witness. i think this is going to pick up a little. i agree. all of these witnesses who have gone on the stand, there are important in their own way and

it probably is fascinating to the jury to hear about pools or the c-span archives, or even depositions, mr. davidson's testimony is really going to get to the heart of this case, as we noted, he represented both stormy daniels and karen mcdougal, but he is the one who approached the executives at the enquirer 2016 about these alleged affairs and he was encouraged by cohen to reveal details of the clients feel. so this is a significant player when it comes to the allegations at the heart of this case why stormy daniels was paid, how she was paid, why it was set up the way it was, why he received the money from cohen. how is paid back? this is a very significant witness. well, and karen i should note trump glance to keith davidson, who was this attorney for stormy daniels as he walked past and made his way to the witness stand. >> prosecutors are going to begin with them obviously, he will then be cross-examined by trump's team what a prosecutor is going to start with to kind of lay the groundwork for what he did and how central he was two allegation here. >> well, clearly he's a very important witness because

you've got one of the lead attorneys, joshua steinglass. she's doing the direct examination of him and that's a signal. i think how important they think this witness is. he's going to talk about what he exactly he negotiated, who he represented, and anything that can corroborate what michael cohen is going to say, i think is going to come out through this particular witness now if he can corroborate what michael cohen is going to say about how this was election-related. this was the purpose was about the election i think you're going to see trump's defense potentially change too. >> i had nothing to do with it. well, and let's not forget when they were talking to david pecker keith davidson was the one who texted on election night in 2016, asking, what have we done because clearly, they were trying to make the point. they believed that what they had done benefitted trump in this election. and i should note paula that keith davidson

is the person who essentially received this money on behalf of karen mcdougal and stormy daniels. it was not wired directly to them. he was the one who facilitated this and receive this. and they are walking through his employment history. he owns his own law form law firm let's, angeles, you can look at his website, karen mcdougal's pictures on there. she is not happy about it but he is a central figure in all of this and how he initiated these payments. he has and you make a great point because you're connecting the testimony that we heard hi, mr. pharaoh earlier to what we're about to hear from mr. davidson, mr. farro testified that the money that was put in that shell company went to mr. davidson, not to stormy daniels eventually, they learned that's well, that was the purpose for it. >> but as far as that bank renew, this was just monday from one lawyer going to another lawyer 40 thought was a real estate transaction so now we're starting to see this evidence that they had to get in through some of these lesser known witnesses, applying to the main plot line here and mr. davidson will likely talk about receiving that payment and how it was reimbursed. now, asked about 2015 to 2017, davidson

said at that time, my practice was heavily involved with media cases, which of course it's lanes probably how he came to work with and for karen going to stormy maybe an understatement of the year given what we know, we also have judge george girl, so with us who is a retired judge in the queens county supreme court and judge, i know you've been inside the court every single day that this case has been going on, watching all of these witnesses come forward and testing i should note keith davidson is on the witness stand right now. he is confirming that his work frequently involved ndas. these non-disclosure agreements. he is the one who drafted for people remember, the agreement between donald trump and stormy daniels, where they use those pseudonyms? peggy peterson and david denison, that we now learn. what are you believe is a significant it's up having keith davidson on the witness stand that's a great choice by the people. >> he david pecker testified for about three days last week and significant portions of his

testimony involved keith davidson has not only being a lawyer for stormy daniels by the source in this case as well. and he explained under oath, mr. pecker how unusual it was foray attorney to also be a source for the national enquirer. so what he's going to be doing and it was just mentioned in the panel discussion has much corroboration is part is the people could possibly pull together to what they anticipate michael cohen is going to testify to for the jury ahead of time and do within the way you just can have bankers and secretaries day after day. you got to spice it up for the jury a little bit two and i think that the keith davidson tests some one will be quite interesting testimony. i'm looking forward to seeing it myself. this afternoon and he's going to be a major piece of this puzzle. on the phi holds up then it's going to

put michael cohen and a much, much stronger position to be ultimately perceived as credible by the jury yeah. >> and, judge, i should note that he also just testified that he has immunity to testify to the grand jury, but he he did not seek it. he said this. testifying today, pursuant to a subpoena that's important because david pecker also had immunity. he signed a non-prosecution agreement role. this was first beginning and now keith davidson says he also has immunity to testify yeah. >> well, you would kind of expect that in a case like this, especially given the the router surreptitious role that has already been described by david pecker. that mr. davidson play in all this entire scenario here what do you think about the significance of what keith davidson texted on election night 2016, where he asked after all this happened, what have we done that of

course is when donald trump was elected president he clearly believed that they had an election related roland yeah. >> well you know, there's here we are at 100 centre street in manhattan, right? >> the covering little background noise there well, there's a lot of that that's coming out that people people have had since david pecker's testimony, get a white. why did david pecker, one of the most interesting parts of his testimony? that kind of ties into this whole thing. and people's growing concerns is originally david pecker was very concerned about the $150,000 that ami laid out for karen mcdougal and he was pushing michael cohen and thereby pushing trump very hard. they come up with the money and michael cohen went so far as to set up an llc which was testified by the banker

this morning to actually receive money to get back to donald, to to get to be a pass-through, so to speak? put $150,000 from trump and the trunk trump organization backed ami. but when am i took the whole thing to the lawyers whatever they said to david pecker, all of a sudden, david pecker was like, you know what, forget about everything, tear it all up and this was in this was all taking place in october of 2016. so a lot of people had a strong sense, has this thing continued to develop right into election night that there were problems? >> yeah judge. thank you for that. and i should note there is a lot of background noise. trump has been encouraging his supporters to come to the courthouse because he's been disappointed that there hasn't been enough of them out there. so that is the background noise behind you, judge. thank you. and karen and polo were now learning that keith davidson is confirming relationships that he had with, stormy daniels is publicist at the time, and with dylan howard, who was the

editor in chief of the national enquirer. and he says, he rarely negotiated the sale of stories to the tabloids, which was and he's also looking at the jury as he is answering these questions, making that direct connection as these getting the question with prosecutors and looking at the jury as he's answering. >> well, the fact that he rarely negotiated the sale of stories to tabloids, again, suggests that what was happening here was unique. he said he usually dealt with ndas more straightforward, non-disclosure agreements that's nothing wrong with that. if you want to pay someone to keep quiet about something that has occurred, no crime there, but he's helping the prosecution set up the idea that what the national enquirer did specifically with karen mcdougal and what michael cohen eventually did with stormy daniels was out of the ordinary and the immunity comment there that he is saying he didn't seek out immunity. he was subpoenaed to be here prosecutors seemed to be going to great lengths to chez to say that these are not witnesses who sought out being care care, that they weren't raising their

hand to come and testify that they had to come and testify yeah. >> so in new york state, any buddy who testified in the grand jury automatically gets immunity for their testimony is just an automatic thing that happens by law. that's what i think he was getting to their and yes, these are people who are subpoena to be here. i think i think one of the reasons they're making sure that they come out and say this is because they want to send a message to donald trump and to donald trump supporters who sometimes come out against people and people who who have had their lives their homes docs are their lives threatened. i think they want the message sent out there that they're not here willingly. their here under subpoena. >> so that that message gets gets told loud and clear because i think people are worried about their own safety i'm paula keith davidson is testifying that he had very little contact with david pecker, said he only spoke to him three or four times, but he

is now explaining his relationship with michael cohen, donald trump's former attorney is personal fits her saying that they have known each other since 2011 date exactly. donald trump. yeah. they say that there was a blog post back in 2011 about stephanie clifford and he clarifies that stephanie clifford more commonly known as stormy daniels. so it suggests there was some baseline relationship here before we get to 2016, and this alleged hush money payment keith davidson. okay. can shed light on these direct conversations and we talked about michael cohen and the corroboration and the documents. i mean, he spoke to michael cohen directly. he may be able to shed light on the pressure michael cohen felt and what michael cohen was being instructed to do is they kind of been trying to say, well, michael cohen was acting on his in his own accord. >> yeah, that's a great point because remember, davidson is the one who receives the money from that shell company and we heard earlier from mr. pharaoh just how urgent mr. cohen seemed in this entire matter, how quickly he was trying to

move things along and how swiftly that movie money moved to that account and then back out to mr. davidson so davidson's testimony here about what was happening with mr. cohen with that money at this critical time, shortly after the access hollywood tape, days before the election. this is really going to set the stage for the prosecution's case. >> we also talk about nda's so much these non-disclosure agreements and todd blanche, when they were talking about them previously, the david pecker kinda tried to make it seem commonplace. we talked about efforts with arnold schwarzenegger and mark wahlberg and other tiger woods, other celebrities and karen, i mean, i wonder how that sits with the jury. >> who you some of these are regular people, some of them probably never sayyed and agreement or aren't super familiar with them. >> i wonder how having keith davidson walk through that is helpful to the prosecution so keith davis and just testified to somebody pretty important. he says cohen was working on trump's behalf when they

interacted over daniel's blog posts. >> so keith davidson knew that cohen was acting on trump's behalf at that time. >> i think that's really significant, but back to you, why do you think that's significant? because it's not just about michael cohen, right? this is about trump, and this is all about trump, who's the person who's on trial here and the defense is going to try and make this all about michael cohen. and almost put michael cohen on trial here to say that this was all about michael cohen and this is what he did he's a liar and he's been convicted of different crimes. but the more that this is connected to donald trump, i think this is what is that? that's what this trial is about. right? it's connecting all of this to donald trump. and so, keith davidson went to michael cohen, who was acting on behalf of donald trump because stormy daniels had nothing to negotiate directly with michael cohen. she was negotiating with donald trump won also. >> stormy daniels and keith davidson that were so worried michael cohen wasn't going to

pay them as he was rushing around on october 20, six obviously, this is keith davidson. he is now on the witness stand. he is the attorney as karen was noting, that handled the hush money agreement at the center of this entire case. >> the question is, what else is he going up to say much more, especially as cross-examination is going to be up after that prosecutors questioning, you are watching cnn's special live coverage every piece of evidence tells a story how would really jesse l. >> monte, sunday's at nine on cnn it's time yes. >> the time has come for a fresh approach to dog food. every day i'm laura. dog people are deciding it's time to quit the kibble and feed their dogs fresh food from the

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cnn, the world's news network. donald trump is apparently passing notes to his attorneys as prosecutors lead a critical witness through direct examination right now, keith davidson, he is the attorney who handled the stormy daniels hush money agreement is on the stand and we are getting bits of reporting from inside the courtroom, from our journalists there, for instance, right now, keith davidson, stormy daniels, attorney, is shown in 15, 2016 email that he sent a karen mcdougal the 1998 plate made of the year with whom donald trump also had an alleged relationship in which they are talking about his representation of her the june 2016 email also contains a retainer agreement kasie hunt now we're getting onto the nitty and/or gritty of it all. having to do with the attempts to hide these women's stories, karen mcdougal's and stormy daniels, different experiences, both of them allegations donald

trump denies both of them, right? the jury is being shown a portion of the retainer agreement that explains the scope of the work. i believe this is regarding karen mcdougal's agreement yes, that does seem to be the case here, according to our team inside the room. and again, it seems to me that this is part of establishing everyone's roles here. we know that we walked through a karen mcdougal with david pecker and how he had dealt with her story. of course, the one with stormy daniels, wouldn't really matter. first at the end of the day. but i am interested in how he came to represent both of them. the safi similarities that were going on h profession it does although i apparently it's potentially was a lucrative one yeah, he is world he ends up in the middle of a lot of these accusations. if you're a lawyer, do you get a third of this business and every 40% of the hills, the guardian percent. yeah. he's websites is if you've been violated, we get you paid okay.

you know, they can bring out all of the pecker's and all of the mcdougal's and all the clifford's. and this guy davidson, they can bring them all out for the next month but if they can't tie it into election interference, or election fraud or campaign finance cases out the window that's what this is about. we had a very well-known, very talented criminal defense lawyer in philadelphia many years ago and the federal government indicted him for income tax evasion. and he defended himself. and his defense was i owe the government. i hope my bookies the bookies break your legs and he was acquitted if defense create reasonable doubt that this was for political purposes it's not guilty. they don't have to prove anything. they have to simply create reasonable doubt and jake has used that earlier. >> only need one fairly need won davidson, keith davidson, this is the attorney for both stormy daniels and karen and karen mcdougal on the stand is

saying he's not going to get into his discussions with mcdougal about the agreement, but he says one paragraph authorized him to negotiate with media outlets on her behalf, elian laura, this is one of the questions i wanted to ask there's such a thing as lawyer-client confidentiality. and i am surprised because of course, in an ignorant caveman and i don't know anything about the legal world. i mean that when i said that i wasn't my point is i why is he allowed to testify about what represent representing clients that paid him money to represent them. i mean, that's one of the things you pay for when you pay for a lawyer is their discretion. >> indeed, it's the attorney-client privilege and it has to have been waived here. could be that the clients themselves waving it could be that it's already been waived by things that have been set in. but when you see that davidson says he's not going to get into his discussions with karen mcdougal, right? bound. >> okay. so that's hush money agreement the other possibility is they've agreed to carve it out. in other words, we're going to call mr. davidson to

the stand. he's going to testify about his dealings with michael cohen, by the way, but not his interrupted. i'm sorry. >> in a june 7, 2016 taxed keith davidson, the attorney for stormy daniels and karen mcdougal, rights to dylan howard, the editor in chief of the national enquirer at that time. i have a blockbuster trump story. >> so that sounds juicy to the heart of the matter. so yeah, it has to be that they've agreed. we're going to work around the attorney-client. proud responds, talk. >> first thing. >> i will get you more than anyone. all caps for it. >> you know why this is why this is not dylan howard saying right-hand man of david pecker, dave, right here amanda, david pecker. and they have allegedly agreed to tip donald trump off to any when shopping around stories about him, and also to buy these stories for the sole purpose of burying them and here we have the editor in chief for the national enquirer responding in this taxed to keith davidson, stormy daniels karen mcdougal's attorney

saying, we need to talk about this big story. you say you have blockbuster trump's story. >> i'll get you more meaning more money than anyone for it, meaning than any other publication or tv station or whatever we'll we'll pay, you know why the suggestion being of course, because we agreed to all this because dylan howard was at that meeting. >> i was dealing with at that howard was the one to go meet with karen mcdougal in-person and say that she he honestly believed the story and it went back to david pecker. >> davidson explaining. >> he reached out concerning their interaction between karen mcdougal and trump. this is not about stormy daniels, this is about karen mcdougal, who has the story about a ten, 11 month relationship with donald trump beginning in 2016? it's ending in 2007 it's according to her, a long relationship in which she actually develops feelings for him. say that she was in love with them in an interview with anderson cooper as well. >> but ellie's point, you are raising the idea of the carve-out, right? you do want to preserve the sanctity of the attorney-client relationship. it should it lives and it's owned by the actual client. the client gets to say whether

it's waived or not, but you can obviously, by virtue of immunity, testified before a grand jury. it's evident that he has immunity and they're going to carve out some portion to suggest, i want you to tell me about your interactions with those who were not your client, even though it was in service on behalf of your client, those who were not your client, including davidson, of course, and others in this testimony, this is so important again, because you want to get a sense of the motivation here. that's a very critical part of what they have to prove for the prosecution, not just there was a catch a catch and kill. fine. those are lawful for other reasons, but that it had to be the motivation and the, you know, why that's lingering is important. >> june 10th taxed dylan howard, editor of the night that's why enquirer rights to keith davidson who is the lawyer representing karen mcdougal and stormy daniels. >> did he cheat on melania june 10th taxed bill brennan. >> this doesn't necessarily hurt the defense is cause if the defense is he paid this money or he was involved in trying to help hide the story

in any way, jake, i think you can do a little better and that it actually helps the defense's i was going to let you have that i mean, there it is right there first response, he says, davidson, you in a lie and then he writes, not wow, well this mess up the campaign wow, well this close to drop on the polls. >> did he cheat on his wife? and that's the defense in this case and if the prosecution can't get over it, it's not guilty davidson testifies. >> i don't know if i'd clear understanding at the time but he says he understood that david pecker, the publisher of the tabloid empire, and donald trump, were friends. and that, that tabloid empire, ami, had endorsed trump, jamie. >> so i think that's right there speaks to those three words. you know why the implication is? we'll pay more than everybody else. there are other tabloids, other organizations that pay for scandal stories but it's, you

know, why is because we're a friend of trump, you know, why, what does that mean? it's subject to interpretation. what i think it means might be something different than what bill things so what means all these are texts hitting at the heart of an alleged deal to catch and kill a blockbuster trump's story in the middle of the 2016 election, keith davidson the attorney for both karen mcdougal playboys 1998 playmate of the year, and stormy daniels, the acclaimed adult film star and director, is still on the stand much more from inside the court next elimination would are going to type games. >> you're going to see players what it on the line here? >> i'm rene kyiv claims everyone is an exponent 76 or next, please, as box coverage begins tonight at 6:30. nba playoffs presented by google pixel with around one coverage presented by nerdwallet on tnt. >> remember space and leg room? that's more like it the three

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>> with the oraa ring i'm caitlin polantz at the federal court in washington, and this is cnn you're. watching cnn's especial live coverage, right now, drama in that manhattan courtroom that you're looking at here as keith davidson, just testified before the jury referring to karen mcdougal saying ms mcdougal alleged she had a romantic affair with donald trump. >> and that mcdougal express that the relationship was does indeed sexual in nature. we are covering all aspects of this as keith davidson, a reminder, he was the attorney who facilitated the payments to karen mcdougal in stormy daniels is now on the witness stand. we are told that trump has been passing notes to his attorneys as all of this is happening, and we have judge grosso. judge because her back with us as judge, you had been inside this courtroom everyday listening to this this

testimony from these witnesses as the prosecutors have been bringing them forward, often the defense has been complaining they don't know fareed advance who these witnesses are going to be. they've a general idea i wonder what you make of the significance of what keith davidson is testifying now about karen mcdougal and what she was alleging about her affair with donald trump well, here's the thing to do. the strict rules or the court. and the fact that we actually have a former president as a defendant. >> i can't just go inside and outside of the court courtroom at will. so you probably might know more right now about what keith davidson is testifying the knee because, you know, i've been here ready to talk so i haven't seen it i did explain to earlier, you know, the significance of keith davidson because of what david pecker testified hi to which i saw in its entirety. so i'm not

surprised to hear feedback from you there. the testified to the things including this nature of the relationship with karen mcdougal that you articulated because that's exactly faculty the type of things that david pecker, was talking about. but if you can something i did see this morning that was really very, very significant was the ruling that judge merchan made on the gag law that would you like me to speak to that for a couple of minutes yeah. >> we've we've read that gag order at linkedin certainly is a notable part of this. we'll see if donald trump reacts to it when he leaves court later today, judge. >> standby for a moment because we are getting these live updates from inside i'd the courtroom of what keith davidson is getting out on the witness stand there starting with karen mcdougal. >> and right now in a june 27, 2016 tax, keith davidson dylan howard, who was the editor in chief of the national enquirer. it's a story that should be told. how are texted back. i agree. and paula and qarrah,

your back here with me, a pollen care as we're looking at this he's starting with the mcdougal story. we know the stormy daniels story is coming. why are they telling it in this sequence? do you believe davidson is such a fascinating witness because remember stormy daniels, karen mcdougal, they weren't reaching out to ami themselves. >> they had their representative there go-between their lawyer mr. davidson, and he is able to talk about the details, how this outreach happened, what the response was, how the payments were set up for both of these women. and most importantly, why they were different, right? one is a catch and kill with karen mcdougal. her story is purchased and then never published. and then with smi, daniel's, she receives this payoff and all of this is happening in the days leading up to the election. here we're learning that in a june 27, 2016 tax davidson told howard but lost that davidson confirms that he was also in discussions with abc news about mcdougal's story. and this is important because it gets to the how and the why and the wind because initially what keith davidson is saying, karen is that they went to the national enquirer

and they weren't interested in buying the story at that time, whether it was how much money they wanted, or what the perimeters of any agreement was. >> and now keith davidson is saying, well, after they found out that abc had interest in telling the story that we were also in communication with them that is when keith davidson and his emissary that he was in touch with at the national enquirer than said, actually, let's revisit this conversation is they're getting closer and closer to the 26th election. >> yeah. look, it's not like these affairs just happen, right? >> the affair with karen mcdougal happened ten years prior to this discussion. the reason that these women were shopping around they're stories at this time was because donald trump was a candidate for office. this was june 2016. >> it's ripe the election, the convention. he's about to become the official nominee exactly. >> and so that's why this was happening. now, this was clearly all about the election, and that's why this is so

critical and why he is so right now, he's testified davidson says the objective was to create a sense of urgency okay. >> well, i mean, it gets to the unseemly aspect of this world, of the national enquirer and attorneys who their jobs were negotiating ndas. he says he's basically trying to play the two entities off of one another. paula get the best deal for his client. getter as much money as he possibly can and we're just going to say how that plays with the jury because there's certainly an ick factor there, but the urgency, of course comes from the fact that there is an election that's likely we're going to see prosecutors really hone in on because the theory of their this case well, yes, it's about falsifying business records, is that they were falsified in an effort to help trump win the election. so davidson says his goal was to get the best deal for his client with whichever outlet yeah, that's exactly what you were saying that he's trying to play the two entities off of one another. this is riveting testimony that we are getting from inside the court as keith

davidson is going through how he negotiate j to the tabloids to buy the stories of his clients. this particular one, and a fair alleged between donald trump and karen mcdougal that she says was sexually cool in nature. much more of cnn's special coverage, just in moments of florida man as hostile good allies infected with anthrax sunday this became the bureau's number warn crying to sell how would really happen with jesse l. martin? like sunday at nine on cnn did you know taking xyz all at night, release allergies while you sleep you wake refreshed for more productive day. >> get 24 hour continuous relief that does not fade he wise old, take xyz off at night why always the couch? doesn't need to get a puppy school, get his little puppet diploma no

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deals. and right now, the information is coming in live keith davidson says karen mcdougal's goals were to quote, rejuvenate her career to make money, and to avoid telling the story and being termed the scarlet letter. she did not want to tell her story about her alleged romance with mr. trump, according to her former attorney, keith davidson, and she did not want to tell her story if it's in says, but that does not mean laura that she didn't want to be paid to not tell her story exactly which people can enter into ndas. that's perfectly legal. remember, from david pecker, we're building on this testimony he testified that she didn't want to become monocle and whiskey was the phrase that he used. he also sang with the abc deal with whom they were all so in talks with require her to tell her story so she liked the ami deal with wouldn't force her to do that, remember? yeah. just to pick people up to speed abc news is at this point, we're told according to this testimony, trying to get karen mcdougal to sit down for an interview with

them. and she's getting pressure from some group of women that keith davidson referred to as the estrogen mafia. i don't know what that means, and it's not my term, so i wouldn't touch save your ear muslim ban social media post. but there is some pressure on karen mcdougal to tell her story to abc news. >> now this is the antithesis though the catch and kill, right? caching killed david pecker wants to do to catch the story, right? to own the rights, and then never but have it come out. abc's according to this conversation, the abc de alluding to is i want to buy your story so i can actually tell the story which has not going to do what she wants to do. and so the idea of her going instead to ami, which remember david pecker, it has agreed to pay that one. >> but remember this is different than what they did was for me daniels, that was the case he said they were not touching michael cohen's, the one to provide that money. >> and that has been the source of what is the charge behavior here in terms of the falsified business records, this gaetz additional account, we should note that when it says the abc deal, we don't know if that

means money because journalistic organizations in the united states are not supposed to pay for stories that said, there are ways to get around that by saying well, we'll pay you for photos, your photographs, or we'll pay you for this. i mean, that is not well, that's a way to work around journalistic rules. but we don't know what this deal is. >> it testimony that we heard on one second, i'm sorry, keep davidson's first offering for dylan howard. >> how about $1 now? and $75,000 per year for the next two years. as a fitness correspondent for ami, and your related publications. that is a sweet deal. keith davidson asking for that from dylan howard, don't have our response overtax, i'll take it to them, but thinking it's more hundreds than millions, meaning we'll give you some money, but you are you are way, way out kicking your coverage right there. >> well, and we know that it ended up in a much lower hundred and $50,000.

>> and to your point, about abc. the testimony that we heard earlier in the trial was that it was a spot on dancing with the stars, which obviously was that what was that was what was not abc news. abc if abc entertainment, that mean in theory, i suppose you could make that kind of a deal. >> i don't i davidson says he interpreted dylan howard email his texts back to mean i should expect a counter offer that was substantially left very astute interpretation, hundreds over millions would be less. >> that's fairness. >> this is where you start a negotiation as chi, that'll for low, they go from 1 million up front and 75 over the next few years to a spot on dancing with guards i mean that's two different offers, two different offers, two different offerings with the stars was as we've again, i'm relying on what we know from the course of this trial because as jake points out, this is not considered to be standard practice that respected news organisms. >> but maybe it wasn't abc news. maybe it was icy entertainment.

>> she didn't want to tell you good morning, america. and this is something that they can do because she's telling it on good morning, america. >> okay. >> we'll introduce you go over. >> very well people in that box or thing with all this warmi really does taste hold that thought because we'll get, we'll talk about that more in the future. $1 million. keith davidson on the stand walking the jury through the dollar amount it was negotiating for karen mcdougal, the 1998 playboy playmate of the year. he wanted to avoid telling her story of an alleged affair with donald trump, according to her attorney, mr. davidson, marcy and in special live coverage from inside the court just ahead we're here to get your side of the store. >> a bribery, prostitution. >> why do we keep ending up? >> you can't write this stuff. >> united states of scandal with jake tapper. now streaming on macs everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. >> they want that hollywood white smile. news censored in clinical white rights, two shades, whether teeth and 24/7

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healthcare to after care. community schools can wrap so much around public schools. ...and through meaningful partnerships with families, they become centers of their communities. real solutions for kids and communities at aft.org with the oraa ring i'm lauren fox on capitol hill and this is cnn