he is warning the families and the parents of these protesters to call their kids and tell them to leave. the problem here, according to the nypd and the mayor, is that the protests has been taken over by outside elements. >> and that there is now a security concern, a safety concern on the campus and around the area. >> the mayor was talking about the several hello individuals who stormed the building here, the hamilton building here at columbia, that has changed everything. and it appears that the nypd now has information which is concerning to them. and so look at what they have done here, what we have not seen, anything like this. broadway, you are familiar wolf with here. this area in morningside heights there's no traffic here. they have shut down this entire area. they have moved in. >> more police officers. they are using these metal barriers to sort of keep the street clothes. but certainly wolfe, there was a lot of concern

here. we also know that there are other officers standing by at the rest >> to move in much for watching, erin burnett outfront starts right in front. >> next breaking news, the deal to silence stormy daniels perform our attorney explaining in vivid detail how he believed trump was behind the payment to keep daniel's quiet. >> i was in the courtroom and i'll tell you what i saw today, sitting about 25 feet away from trump, plus breaking news, new york city's mayor just announcing the chaos on columbia's campus needs to end. >> now, there is a heavy police presence lining up outside the campus. we're going to take you there i've are reporters there on the scene and trump telling a reporter there's a quote, enemy from within, more threatening than china or russia. and says people like a dictator reporter who spoke to

trump is my guess. let's go out front and good evening. i'm erin burnett and we want to begin with some breaking news on the campus. >> columbia university right here in new york, there is a heavy nypd presence right outside columbia. where pro-palestinian protesters have taken over the campus, occupied buildings, broken windows, york city mayor eric adams is just announced. this must end now, telling the parents of students at columbia to call their kids right now and tell them to leave the area? ria before the situation quote-unquote escalates. >> me. go marquez is on the scene out front at columbia university. so miguel, you are amidst these crowds. can you tell us exactly what you're seeing is a little confusing, but i'm going to walk you through at these protests is that we're now following his front of columbia for the day, many, many hours tehran, the amsterdam, sayyed and they keep around to the broadway sayyed the base case, the columbia. >> that's what police moved in. they shut down broadway completely both directions. what other university debris can get tons of barricade loss of tow trucks, and police buses

are scholars her to take physician and a much much increased police well, it is very clear, but something's going down at columbia today grasty's protesters were protesting the gate. they then started marching. we are now just near 134 streets and broadway bar to get the harlem at the moment is not there where they're going but it does seem clear that something that the police will likely move in to remove protesters in that building. andy and cabinet on the campus of columbia university, erin. >> you a quick question to you. i know there have been students occupying buildings today. we'd seen pictures of broken windows. do you have any sense of how many students are still there or how many are leaving in advance of what seems to be a pretty clear soon move from the nypd it is not clear. >> the police believe there's a university, believes there's two to 300 students totally total taking part in this i keep in mind there are about 36, 37,000 students at columbia

diversity. so these are universities, sort of big disrupted by these 200 sounds like a small percentage of that of those two or 300 have moved into hamilton hall, which is it's a place that students have taken over many times over the years. to voice their displeasure with certain policies, whether separate school or otherwise what it sounds like 300 it's not how many of them take it up. two universities offer to sign a form and not be not or suspended. but right now, all those students faced expulsion suspension hello erin. >> all right. miguel, thank you. wael miguel live amidst that crowd of protesters at right outside of columbia university. and as we miguel saying, it's very clear, the nypd seems poised to go in. we are following that, so we can show you exactly what happens here. the moment that it does

as we wait for that the other breaking story tonight downtown in manhattan. the quote, trump is eft, and that was the quote that came from a text message that stormy daniel's former attorney sent to the national enquirer, right after the infamous access hollywood tape was released. that was part of key testimony in trump's new york criminal trial. i was in the courtroom today. it's a small room. it's quite intimate space. we're doing. daniels, former attorney keith davidson sat 15 feet or so away from trump and spoke directly to the jury, laying out to them the sleazy back-and-forth negotiations over hush money payments that are at the heart of this case. now, davidson was very clear that the payments to the playboy the model karen mcdougal and stormy daniels were made to influence the election the prosecutor asking davidson, at one point, and this is the quote i wrote down, is it safe to assume from your job that you had an understanding that if you were to close your deal, this would somehow benefit the candidate donald trump davidson's one-word reply? >> yes. >> and he laid it out again and

again making it clear that he knew that this would influence the election and telling the jury that he believes trump was behind it. now i was watching trump and the jury today in the courtroom. as i said, a small space, everybody is very close to each other. it's very personal four witnesses and nearly four hours of testimony, and the jury paid attention the whole time, some taking notes, most though, from what i could see, just turning their heads to listen to the questions and then turning their head to listen to the answers back-and-forth and fully engage sometimes looking at the screens in front of them to actually pier at very specific documents. >> one thing that stood out to me was actually that they never noticeably ever looked at trump, even when they walked in and out of the courtroom and i saw that about four times in total. i did not see any of them turned to look at him even though they walk right in front of him as he's standing there, as for trump, he also paid attention, sometimes listening with his arms folded, held head tilted back because you've heard sometimes he fully leaned back in his seat with his legs stretched out. he often spoke

to his attorneys, but the time that he was most engaged, that i witnessed was when a witness from c-span was testifying. the witness confirming that trump had spoken at various rallies, and then the prosecution played tapes from those rallies, including this one every woman lied. when they came forward to hurt my campaign total fabrication now at that point when that started playing its short and i played a few trump leans forward, he puts his face right close to the television monitor on the desk in front of him. he was riveted trump watching. trump was his most engaged and intense moment of the trial today that i saw. meantime, when the story shifts to torrance, stormy daniel's by name, trump's lists were lips were per his disdain for daniels, of course, coming as he has repeatedly attacked her despite a gag order, his supporters have threatened her and her family. some of the attacks so vial, i will not repeat them on air, but in a moment i will speak exclusively to daniels bodyguard. and tonight, the judge in the case putting trump on notice because

of some of those attacks, one and trump to stop violating the gag order or facetime behind bars that warning came after trump was fined $9,000 in the courtroom this morning for making public comments about jurors and witnesses was interesting in this is watching trump is the judge find him for every violation it didn't bat an eye. the former president was completely stoic from my vantage point, paula reid is out front live outside the courthouse to begin our coverage tonight. and polo, what stood out to you most today well, they're in the day began with reports of tension between trump and his legal team. >> i'm told everything is fine between him and his attorney, todd lantern as you saw in court today, the two men appear to be completely aligned as they heard from several witnesses, including one that could really matter for this case, the man who represented two women who say they had affairs with trump today. jurors in the hush money case against former president trump heard from a lawyer who represented two women who

allegedly had a with him while he was married. keith davidson represented both karen mcdougal and stormy daniels. he explained to the jury how he sought deals with the national enquirer for both both of his clients. he told the jury how the release of the trump access hollywood tape suddenly drove up interest in daniel story. >> i just guessing them, it's like a magnet. >> the jury was shown texts that davidson sent to former national enquirer editor, dylan howard about both daniels and mcdougal of mcdougal gold davidson texted, i have a blockbuster trump story. howard responded, talk first thing i will get you more than anyone for it. you know why davidson and we're in conversation with abc news about sharing her story. he testified put mcdougal did not want to tell her story and prefer the deal with the national shall enquirer, which would have kept her story from the public at one point, while davidson and howard were negotiating,

davidson wrote throwing an ambassadorship for me. i'm thinking isle of man. >> he said that text was a joke about trump's presidential run. >> that somehow, if karen did this deal for ami, the publisher of the national enquirer, that it would help donald trump's candidacy. davidson said he received a hefty 45% of mcdougal's $150,000 deal earlier in the day, prosecutors questioned other witnesses like michael cohen's former banker, gary farro, who provided details about a different hush money payment that was made to stormy daniel's by michael cohen. trump was seen leaning back in his chair with his eyes closed several times during farro's testimony, prosecutors also briefly called the executive director of c spans archives to the stand. his testimony was used to enter videos of trump into evidence. >> as you have seen right now, i am being viciously attacked with lies and smears it's a

phony deal i have no idea who these women are. >> and for all the days testimony began, judge juan merchan ruled trump must pay $9,000 for violating the gag order put in place at the start of the trial, the judge ruled trump violated the gag order nine times and charged him $1,000 per violation in an ordered him to take down the offending posts by the afternoon, which trump did. the judge raised the possibility of jail time. if trump continues to violate the gag orders, stating therefore, defendant is hereby warrant that the court will not tolerate continued willful violations of its lawful orders, and that is if necessary and appropriate under the circumstances, it will impose an incarcerated punishment after a court trump made additional comments that all appear to be within the bounds of his gag order. >> but one more back in court on thursday, they will start

with another hearing on what prosecutors say or for additional violations of the gag order. >> but aaron, i'll know that these all occurred before trump was fined $9,000 and threatened with jail. so too soon to say that is having a deterrent effect, right? >> absolutely. and he did remove the post at least relevant to what he was what he was punished for today. >> all right. paula, thank you very much. are experts are here with me. so terry austin, you and i sat together inside the courtroom and you have been there every single day. you're a former trial attorney so how was in that context how did you see keith? davidson's testimony? he of course is the lawyer who represented both stormy daniels and karen mcdougal, aaron, i think he's been the best so far. he walked into that courtroom. he was very confident he got on that's danny answered the questions and he was very detailed about it and he was funny, he made jokes. you mentioned one of the jokes that he made the isle of man and i definitely think think the jury was listening to him. he was extremely credible and he gave a lot of details about both the

stormy daniel's case and about the karen mcdougal, k. and he turned towards the jury. i mean, he's he's a lawyer. he knew what he was doing. i mean, not that others didn't, but he was very purposeful in his take the question and really presented to them absolutely. >> all right. so ryan, there was another moment that stood out to me, michael cohen's banker was testifying, completing his testimony, the prosecution is going document by document, how michael cohen set up a new corporation and what was the purpose for the corporation? they show documents and again, the jury's watching this, so carefully. what did michael cohen said? the purpose of the new corporation was real estate consulting. what was the purpose? this is the wire to daniel's attorney retainer. then that prosecutor asked cohen's banker if michael cohen had indicated the funds would be used to pay an adult film star as opposed to real real estate consulting would. this all happened? the corporation have been open so quickly, the money transferred and wired out. the answer was unequivocal. >> that is, an industry we do not work with. >> so how does this far does this go to proving the falsification of documents that

are so central to the case. but certainly proves that the scheme was being used. they were using shell companies that we're using all sorts of false cities with the banks and otherwise. so that was from the get-go. now the problem is that right now, that's just michael cohen, right? and the big, big question for this trial is whether or not the prosecutors can prove that donald trump himself knew that business records were being falsified to cover up the entire scheme, but those are the business records inside the trump organization. but this is a very good lead into that particular part of it. >> so we don't know what they have joe, but certainly today presented a good case for michael cohen providing false false representation, but not donald trump. yeah. without question. and aerial view. erin, i'm fascinated by your description of the volley between the juror is focusing on the answers and the questions the they really were they were yeah that's critical and not looking at drop that's important. trump's not providing testimony. right? what the testimony is coming from the witnesses shows to me

they're paying attention, keeping an open mind. people have their minds made up, but doing anything but listening to testimony but look on the issue of establishing the deal, the deal being what he represented the attorney davidson who was testifying today. he represented story for me, daniel's right. certainly represented karen mcdougal had a lot to say about his interactions with michael cohen. what i would anticipate when the right is the defense, his argument that listen, that's great as to your relations with michael cohen. what about donald trump? you didn't interact with him at all, did you interact with michael cohen? you have no knowledge with respect 20 conversations that took place between trump and cohen, you don't know what at all they were discussing at anytime because you weren't there so fascinating as to their interaction cohen and davidson, who didn't have such great things to say about cohen by the way rao calling him things. i can't repeat, but we'll see what the defense does certainly in closing argument seizing upon that to say trump was nowhere to be seen, nowhere to be found and had nothing to do with this that they're going to

try to say. all right. so terry, when we were sitting there, something happened that hadn't happened before you've been an everyday so you knew to be surprised when eric trump walked in with his father and they walk in. i described it to someone today. i sort of in its traditional sense let's have a wedding walking down the aisle. they walk in and the precession, you get the defense and the prosecution. so in trump comes with his son and then trump turns and looks towards us because that's to face his son. they have a conversation, a brief one. what did you make of that interaction? >> i think some of it was stage no doubt about it. they do come in the exact same way every day. in fact, they line up the same way, the same people carry the same box. it's, it's pretty interesting. and when trump turned around to talk to eric, he looked around the room, he saw you he saw other people and he smiled and he was doing that. i think to show the jury that he's comfortable. he was relaxed. his son as their his family supports him. it was a very pivotal he knew what he

was doing. he said to me, how are you? he mouthed but he was he knew everyone in the room was absolutely, absolutely. >> how important ryan is it for him to have family? there are eric trump, is this the first time he spent or anyone's been there? does that matter in a courtroom like this? a small courtroom where everyone in that jury is well aware that someone from trump's families there, i think i managed a lot. it also matters a lot because of the nature of the case. so it's hush money payments to women that he's right. allegedly having that's right. so if the families there to support him, that's a big deal. >> you're saying if melania shows up, that would be big deal, but i think her absence is also highly significant. and in fact, eric showing up on one day and then if they don't others, the others don't show up. i think it'd be even more significant that they're not there. melania especially so joe, we heard from some witness, a witness say that means seem odd. >> some people, which was the head of archives for c-span, and he was very open about being nervous it's and he was there for one purpose only, which was in order for the prosecution to get those tapes of which i played a clip and

paula play the clip into the record because the two sides hadn't been able to agree on that. so now you got to waste witness time to get that into as an exhibit so what do you make of trump's reaction to that? i mean, as i said, no, i don't mess up our cameras. here. buddy leans forward, is faces so close to his little television monitor when he saw himself without questions. >> so let's talk about just briefly, it's a little inside baseball as to why that witnesses there. he lorries have to lay the foundation, right. you can't just say i'm admitting this into evidence and if another lawyer doesn't agree, then you have to call while the actual person to authenticate the document presented to him, it's a business record. it goes and then you could played for the jury. so that's the essence of why this is important. in most trials. aaron, what happens is we just agree, don't call anybody. it's going into the all know, he did a rally in greensboro, north carolina, this date, right? we don't need c-span to confirm it but i think critically, what the videos show, i don't know these women. >> i don't know anything about a meanwhile, if you connect the dots, you heard other

testimony, you even heard rode his administrative assistant? yep. they want the contact, stormy daniel's was in the contact. listen to trump organization. right. so as karen mcdougal oh, and by the way, start mcdonald's had an interview at some point it may have been from the practice. we don't know so it just goes to show that he's misrepresenting if he's misrepresenting about that what else is he missed? >> is that what you think the purpose of this was not too eventually prove that he did indeed have fairs with these women, but certainly he knew them. karen mcdougal, he referred to as our girl, correct we saw that in some of the communications, yeah, absolutely. this was a lot of to do about just small points, but there's small points. we're going to see that doing the closing arguments, these points where he is lying to you about these affairs, and you can't believe anything he's saying obviously, and that's why they took the time to make sure they brought in the c-span guy and anybody else they needed to be custodian of records to get into, right. >> even somebody who had taken a deposition and e jean carroll, that a lot of that. >> all right. >> thank you all very much. and

next, stormy daniels sharing exclusively the violent, disturbing threats that she's receiving now, including trump's supporters, threatening to physically abuse and kill her family. longtime bodyguard, his neck plus breaking news out of new york. we are just learning that hundreds of officers from the nypd strategic response team have dust arrived outside columbia university mayor eric adams speaking out moments to go, we're live on the ground there as those teams approach and trump has always wanted to live the playboy life have you ever dated a playmate? >> i refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it may be true, maybe chair could, a playmate be the one who ultimately takes him down? >> the whole myth has to be real imagine, feed if you didn't know whether you were next they are both tied up?

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your $7 trial. >> i'm melanie zanona in washington and this is cnn tonight quote you're on your way to hell. that is just one of the many obscene and vial threats against stormy daniel's and her family. these threats have intensified. is daniels prepares to possibly take the stand against donald trump daniel's exclusively sharing some of the threats against her without front tonight, and i want to warn you these are disturbing one of them reads, evil will never win. the truth will come out, and i don't know how you live with yourself. it's time you better find god because you're on your way to hell. and there's another one that is so vital that i will only share part of it aloud. >> i'm going to physically abuse your entire family for what you've done to this country. >> this is a death threat and i swear to god, i will murder you it goes on to, threaten unspeakable acts or family members, male or female. it daniel's tonight in the face of all this is defiant. she tells out front quote, no amount of threats will change what happened to the truth is the truth.

>> joining me now exclusively as daniel's bodyguard, travis miller. >> and you can see him here holding daniel's hand as she makes her way through a crowd out of reporters travis, this image shows what you have been doing protecting daniel since 2018. so throughout all of this the threats against her tonight, we just shared some of them terrifying difficult to hear have the threats against her ever been this bad i don't think so. >> i think i think starting out they were they were they were levels of threats and i think at this point it's it's definitely gotten worse amar biggest thing and my biggest thing is just trying to give a peace of mind during this process and protect your as much as possible i mean, if daniel's does come to new york to testify in this trial, obviously, travis, you're going to be the person in charge of protecting her how worried ishee about facing trump's supporters. >> some of them are very angry, some of them are threatened

violence against her. he has been encouraging them to come outside the courthouse yeah. >> yes, ma'am. i mean, no. she she she she's worried me and then the day i think she she she trusses michi truss's herself and and i think the biggest thing is just is just protecting her and and just give him as much peace as possible during this process. and just, you know, just protecting her the. most, important. part of, it. >> when you talk about that, travis, you are her body guard, you also and working with her become her friend and stormy shared some photos of the two of you with us and she talked about, you. she tells us according about you, travis i know travis would die for me, my daughter, and even her father. he is the first person to believe me he knows and doesn't hesitate to protect me and she tells us travis, that you've saved her life more than once. what do you want us to know about her as a person

she's an amazing person and she's an even better mom. you know when it comes to who she is, she's loyal. and when i first met her, i saw that right away and i made her a promise that i would stand by her side from getting from the start to the end and i plan on keeping that promise. and when i take a lot of pride in what i do want to take, a lot of pride and keeping my word on protecting her and her family and i will continue to do that travis, stormy just posted a seemingly benign comment on x and she writes the other day, such a beautiful afternoon at the farm that's what she wrote. one user attacks or four. it says this case is falling apart and real and your ability to remain relevant with it she could have ignored it, but she chose to respond are you watching the same case? it just had two witnesses prove everything i've been saying is the truth and travis and she was unafraid immediately responded. >> do you think we're going to see this this defiance, this

willingness to take it all on on the witness stand? >> oh man, you know, it's not my place so you think about that when it comes it out, but she's a fighter and if there's one thing you've noticed about stormy is that no matter how hard she could, she keeps getting back up and she stays true to who she is, and she never wavers. and i think that's the most important thing when it comes there. >> all right. well, travis, thank you very much i appreciate it. >> and of course, we'll see if you will be in new york soon with her for that potential and quite likely testimony. >> thank you. >> no. thank thank you very much next, the breaking news here in new york, let me just show you some live pictures of what's happening and why pd officers lining up outside columbia university. >> the mayor has spoken saying this must end. now, and just to that, all of these hundreds of officers have approached colombia. streets are closed. these are officers from the strategic response team. they are now on the scene and we're going to take you there next.

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this moment. these are live pictures out of new york pro-palestinian protesters have been on the streets as police right now that you are looking at on your screen, these are police lined up outside columbia via university. there's major gates right there on the inside the quad where those tents were, the hall that students occupied overnight. and now these police officers, all gathering are shimon prokupecz reporting hundreds of officers from these strategic response team that's who you're looking at. he says have just arrived and he witnessed dozens a vans. and then all of these officers getting out. the new york mayor eric adams, warning students who are right now barricaded inside one of the school's main buildings called hamilton hall, to leave immediately he says their protests has been hijacked by outside agitators who are grading serious public safety issues maybe some of the students involved don't understand what they are

involved in we urge those in everyone else violating columbia's order to leave the area and leave the area. >> now, we cannot wait to this situation becomes even more serious this must in now now the president of columbia university's threatening to expel students who took over that building on campus overnight, breaking windows, blocking doors, with tables protesters are showing no signs of leaving right now, palestinian flag was waving from the rooftop today of that hall. >> right now on the ground, shimon prokupecz is there and miguel marquez, they're right outside columbia, two different points, but you can see what's happening here. so shimon, let's start with you. i see a lot of those police officers behind you what's happening now? >> this is certainly are in an escalation. these are the officers who respond to any kind of disturbance protests. >> i been in new york covering

protests for quite some time. >> i've not seen a response. like this. >> before. these are the search themes that they send in, in moments like this. and right now, what we've been seeing here is this is where they're gathering, just waiting for word on. whether or not they're going to be going in. we heard the chief here giving them some last-minute orders that once they go in to put their advisors down because objects could be thrown at them he told them to be officers. he told lieutenants to be lieutenants sergeants to be sergeants and took professional. they were going over some of the strategic moves the design of the interior of the campus, where the encampment is. having some last-minute words and we're seeing a lot of them to stand around at this point very commonly just waiting for word on whether or not they're gonna be going into the college, which is over my right shoulder here just a couple of blocks. so at some point it seems that they're just going to do this. it's just a question of when and they're just waiting for word.

>> i want to show you here are in behind me here. >> there are more officers gathering, some of them. i were preparing. you see, zip ties and other gear. there's also the nypd legal unit as well. they're everyone at this moment. aaron is just standing by to see whether or not the college they're waiting for permission from the college to give them that permission. that letter, that legal authority? >> to head in into the university. >> but this kind of response, this is a massive, massive response here and more officers are arriving here. we're seeing chiefs and other high-ranking officers. everyone here at the ready on word that they're going to be moving what's happened here i run it seems based what the nypd and the mayor said that they have information very concerning information that has caused safety concern as a result of that, they have closed pretty much both sides of broadway for about ten blocks. i've never

seen anything like this where they've closed both sides of the street here in morningside heights and they are now just gathering preparing for perhaps the next steps here. the warning has been given, and now we just wait, are all right. shimon, while you're there, i just want to go just nearby to where are you are but a different vantage point to miguel marquez and miguel, what can you tell us you're seeing from where you're standing yeah it seems very clear that louise, any university want these protests to end and they wanted to end tonight. this is broadway, this season, the main gates, the columbia here. hundred and 16th and broadway. you can see what it looks like. broadway shut down in both directions for several blocks amsterdam. all way any of us i'm in the camera on amsterdam avenue i want to do this. i can see and hear protesters on that side of the campus, amsterdam is also shut down. >> a hugging 20th and maybe 100, those are also shut down

right now, police have staged dozens of tow trucks down to 120th. >> there are big buses done at 120th several different areas that are now shut down. the protesters interestingly, are staying over on the amsterdam side mavi 200 or so protesters came over to columbia, sayyed, a short time ago, about a half-hour, five minutes ago. and then they marched off. they marched we talked you talk at the top of the show. they kept going off broadway into the harlem. it's not clear exactly where they were going if they were trying to protest and go around the city, but police did follow them there. but it is very clear tonight's the university has given these protesters warning. look, this is, they believed this was two, maybe 300 individuals if they're dealing with both the encampment and then in hamilton hall as well that they will happen have to move people out of that. and kevin, which they've done it before, and then they allowed it to take root again. and then it stayed and out when we are where we are. and then hamilton hall is not clear how many individuals are in hamilton hall. it sounds

like it might be a fairly small number. i've spoken to students who are inside. so the only fuel i can get in here are essential workers and students who are room and have their dorm rooms on the canvas. i've spoken to students there. they said it's very, very tense in there. they're not seeing any sign of police inside the campus right now. but it is quiet and they are expecting the nypd to move in at some point this evening, aaron. >> all right. miguel stay with us as well. charles ramsey joins the conversation now, former philadelphia police commissioner in dc police chief as well so chief ramsey, you hear shimon and miguel describe what they're seeing right now shimon talking about in all the protests, he's covered and he has covered so many over these recent years. now that he's never seen search teams this big and they're going through plans actual plans of what the layout is inside the courtyard, there being told to put their advisors down to be worried about projectiles when they go

in, they prepared with zip ties. when you hear all those details, what do you think? >> well i think it's about time i mean, this is something that really should have been done before because this is just escalating to a point where it's no longer a peaceful protests. you can't break into a building. one of the university buildings and take it over i mean, you know, the university has allowed this to get to a point where right now force is going to be used to not only get rid of the encampment, but also get those people out of that particular building. so there'll be a lot of her arrest that are made hopefully they hold true on their threat to expel the students. that participated particularly and taking over that building and causing damage. i mean, they got to send a message and i hope that universities around the country pay attention to this and they need to coordinate with their local authorities and have a game plan because these days get out of control very

quickly. >> so chief there's shimon was also sharing that. why is this happening right now? obviously, the occupation of that hall, which is something that students have done at various points over the years. but obviously this time there has been violence windows broken the students are inside again, we don't know how many, but mom was saying that the reason for this happening right now, in terms of these search teams massing outside is that they've received quote-unquote concerning information. now, in the context of what these protests are about, when you hear concerning information and see surge teams like this do you have any specific concerns as to what that information might have been? >> well, you have to have concerns is whether or not anyone in their is armed born example. you in anything is possible. you had a large number of people enter that building. they weren't search certainly before they went in. so you don't know what they mean? after you've got to be prepared and if nothing else, there are all kinds of

projectiles can be thrown at police i went through the vietnam war protests. >> a khan cow had campuses, so i know it can get pretty ugly and i have no reasonably this won't get ugly because those are the people that have taken over this building. >> they want that optic, they want that visual, they want cnn and others de, show to police forcibly removing people from the buildings and so forth. but. guess what? that's exactly what's going to happen. >> kalisa will use a minimal amount of force in order to do it. >> but if they got to clear that building, they're going to clear that building a period. >> all right which i was what chief ramsey, stay with me, shimon and miguel are standing by as well. so all can hear us as this develops. frank bruni also joins me from the new york times, the author of the age of grievance, which was just released today, which is a a poignant moment. for for your, for your book to come out but when we hear all these details concerning information, put your visor is down zip ties at

the ready it it doesn't seem that there's a peaceful end. then as the chief points out, certainly those who are still inside that building don't seem to want it to end in a peaceful, calm way. >> no, they don't want they want the kind of boldness confrontation possible because that serves there columbia has every right to clear this building out. the new york city, eric adams, the police force has every right. i hope this happens in as proportional and measured away as possible. otherwise, you are playing into exactly what they want and we're just going to escalate the situation and it's pretty escalated as frank, i'm just trying to understand and i know every situation because there's different individuals involved. right. but yale and brown today succeeded two different ways. but in negotiating and so that encampments were dismantled and things appear to be going back to normal. some of the students in the case of one of the universities okay, look at the police are walking here as we're talking. so we're seeing where they're going as they do that, frank, what do you think is different here about

colombia? there has been no ability to tamp it down. yeah. i'm in part of his everything that happened comes in new york city is on steroids, right? we don't we don't know exactly who's in that building and what what effect that has on it. i also think various political actors, and this is indicative of our grievance culture, various political actors have decided to choose this particular circumstance to come in and choose their sides and make their statements. and i think that has accelerated and amplified but things up. mike johnson for a the speaker of the house a week ago, i was writing about how much i admired the fact that he made common cause with democrats, changed his mind about ukraine aid and then the next day or the day beyond that, he goes up to new york it didn't need to be here. and he says, maybe we should bring in the national guard. we have to always there by the way, on the steps of columbia when he was there and he came out and he said and did what he intended to do. >> but he was clearly taking a back and surprised by how many students were there. and at that point, there were only a few hundred, but they gathered and they were not happy it is not what he was expecting, but did he need to do that so many of the voices that have joined

this situation and have shouted about it because that's what we do these days. we shall, we don't talk have they been there for just score political points and for their own purposes, or have they been there to really common solve this? i think this has been a sort of this particular situation has attracted political actors scoring points in a way that the situations and some of those other campuses get ready made me somehow, maybe because it's columbia, it's columbia came he brought he brought for three or four other representatives with him and i don't know. i was standing next to him. the students, couldn't fully hear them and that was a good thing. >> because if they had heard what they were saying in one case, thank you all should be ashamed. i mean, there would it's been a true a true outcry with the intention of them appearing was for the press conference part, not to actually talk to students, right? >> they came here because new york city is immediate capital. where are you and i sitting right now? we're sitting in a studio in new york city. they came here because more cameras are here. more media companies are here than in any other city so chief ramsey, i don't know

if you can still hear me can you still hear me two friendly. all right. so that's frank and i are talking. we were able to see and it's sort of dicey what our cameras can get pictures of or not right now. but we start to see those surge. some of those surge units but start to move and they weren't rushing. >> they were just moving purposefully from being in situations similar to this, is that how it would go down? they would just walk onto campus or would there be some sort of a i don't want to use the word russian and pejorative way, but a rush no, they won't rush. i mean, they're formed up in platoons and squad's. they each have an assignment. >> there probably anticipating having instances blocked. so they have to get through that they'll cover the front, the rear mean they've given people the chance to get out of there and it gets to a point where it too late delete, you know, we're coming in and if you're in there, you're going to be arrested and you're going to be charged. >> and that's probably how it's going to go down. >> so right now they're just

getting it together so that they actually have a plan to make the entry and that's what you're saying, but it's not going to be just a rush in there. there'll be controlled. >> but again once they are inside, i would imagine they're going to encounter for some resistance. >> i agree. the forest they use has to be proportional, but some force will have to be used because these guys apparently are not going to leave. and i would be surprised if the majority of them are even students you have people that that's what they do they attach themselves to the legitimate protesters and they cause all kinds of problems. and that's what i think you're looking at right here. >> he's gotta be done about yes, it's very fast naming these kids were offered the ones that our students that they would be able to not be expelled if they were just two sine sine papers too. tobacco off today, which, which at yale and brown, this has seemed to work to de-escalate, did not happen in this case. but when we look at the images of where

i don't know how many people are in there and how many of them are students. but right now in hamilton hall on columbia, right near these images that you're looking at, where when the police go in, that is where we anticipate this confrontation will happen we saw the students occupy it, and whoever else was with them, broken windows the first thing when you see that broken window, i'm thinking of that indelible image of the >> but a president still at the time now, a former president who is romantic if you really believe in something and if you're fighting for it, you do the most provocative disruptive, confrontational thing possible that's what the writers on january 6th did. that's what these students and their non-student allies? every

want to call them are doing here there's this, it's all the same sort of ethos, the same sort of approach. >> and it is all chief ramsey going to be i would imagine on camera because there are people involved who are going to want every bit of it on camera oh it'll be on camera, but he just what it is. i mean, you know, you just can't have this sort of thing take place on a regular basis. i mean, two years ago, it was the us capitol today. it's colombia. i mean, what's next? i mean, it just goes on and on. this is not a peaceful protest and the longer you cannot go into a building, you can not vandalize. this has got nothing to do with a peaceful protests. these are people that are there for a whole different purpose. and a police will have to take care of it and believe me, nypd will and the reason you see so many police officers is because you want to have overwhelming numbers that actually keeps the

violence down. it makes it less likely that people will it all right, well, we continue to monitor this. >> these are live pictures from the other side of columbia where the surge units or in the other side of the campus, as we are watching what it seems to be an imminent confrontation that may occur here on the columbia campus chief ramsey is going to stay with us, frank bruno we will come back with are breaking coverage, right after this break how we'd really having with jesse l. >> martin sundays at nine on cnn sail through the heart of historic cities and unforgettable scenery with viking unpack once, and get closer to iconic landmarks local life and cultural treasures because when you

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the mayor of new york said the situation must end. now, there are hundreds of surge unit to police on the other side of the campus with visor ready to be pulled down and go in and we have reporters, they're monitoring exactly what is happening out front now is eric quartile esa. he has a time reporter who spoke to trump, donald trump for nearly 90 minutes and i know eric, you've made a lot of headlines and especially in context of this breaking news that is unfolding before our eyes tonight you asked trump and these extensive conversations you had 90 minutes over two interviews, if he would call in the military to break up these protests on college campuses? what did he tell you well, thanks for having me, aaron yes. >> i asked donald trump about this in the context of comments he reportedly made to his former secretary of defense, mark esper, who wrote in his book that trump suggested during the black lives matter protests in 2020, that he porter the shooting of

protesters in the leg? donald trump didn't deny that he said that he disparaged as birds is worth secretary defense, when i asked whether he would be willing to send the military on protesters as president, he said he likely wouldn't have to because he would rely mostly on the national guard mostly on the national guard. so just it's just important contexts in light of these images. obviously, speaker mike johnson called for the national guard days ago at columbia, that hasn't yet happened, but we do see these as our reporter said, the most surge police that he's ever seen covering protests in new york right now, massed outside the gates of columbia university you talked to trump about political violence as well. and we'll see what happens here. but of course from the left, many would characterize this as politically driven violence. on the right. of course, there was january 6, so you asked trump whether he was worried there'll be political violence this november election month. he told, you know, but i know you

followed up with him in your extensive conversations and he told you and let me quote from you, eric, if we don't win, you know, it depends. it always depends on the fairness of an election tell me more. >> yeah. i mean, that really stood out to me in our first conversation at mar-a-lago, roughly two weeks ago, i asked whether he was worried about political violence and connection and with the november election, and he said no and i said, what do you expect anything? he said, i think we're going to win. i think there won't be political violence. so when i had a chance to talk with them again on the phone two weeks later, i follow up in that followed up on that and said, mr. president, what if you don't win? and he said precisely what you just said and it stood out to me because he read phase the specter of potential political violence. if he doesn't win the election, which was alarming to many people, right? >> certainly. and especially considering that his definition of what is a free election at least in the last election, is not the definition of what a free election is. >> so what i'll struck you the

most most over these conversations that you had and again, in 90 minutes, what else stood out to you, eric, you know, what stood out to me was the fact that trump is ever more assertive in confident now than he's ever been. >> he is in the process of embarking on a strategic plan to return to the white house and be able to seize more power than he had in the first term, right? he is trying to consolidate power around his position as president and remove many of the guardrails that prevented him from carrying out a lot of the things he wanted to do. in the first term. he's got an a conservative army of influence, of advice reserves, and aides who are preparing the mechanics of carrying out his agenda. and he is preparing right now to go into office if he wins to hit the ground running in a way that he wasn't prepared to the last time and just as you're watching, talking, eric, everyone, you're looking on

your screen at those surge unit police you hear students yelling from a distance. why are you in riot gear? and those police with their advisors prepared to go into columbia university as you're seeing this face off here? eric, you, in your conversations with trump as we're watching this again, unfold you asked him about something he said to sean hannity when he talked about on day one he says, trump says, you're not gonna be a dictator, are you? he's talking about a conversation with someone and he tells this person no, no. other than on day one what did he explain to you about that well, trump essentially said that he was joking that he was kidding around, that he was playing with the audience. >> trump often is able to assume this role of almost stand comedian when he's in front of an audience, when he's at his rallies, it's part of his relationship with his supporters. he entertained is them as well as speaks to them. but when i said well, sir, don't you realize that this kind of talk of dictatorship