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i'm josh campbell on the ucla campus in los angeles. >> this is cnn welcome, to, cnn's special coverage day ten of donald trump's hush money, criminal trial. >> i, wolf blitzer in washington, phil mattingly just outside court in manhattan. court just broke for lunch until about 2:15. but before that, trump's defense attorney was grilling stormy daniels, former lawyer, keith davidson davidson was a point person for the deal to pay daniels to stay silent about her alleged affair with trump davidson then dealt with trump's then-attorney, michael cohen, phil yeah. >> grilling is the right word, wolfe, the six-figure deal. the parties crafted involved confidentiality and even fake names for both daniel's and donald trump the. question is whether michael cohen took it upon himself to draw it up, or if he was actually just doing

trump's bidding cnn chief legal affairs correspondent paula reid is with me now. paula. there has been a need to have a pop culture encyclopedia if my 2005 to 2010 but more importantly, this has been a very aggressive cross-examinati on from trump's legal defense. >> why i would argue that it's been a very successful cross-examination because they have not only really dirty that davidson as a witness, but also raised the specter in the question of whether he is indeed a professional extortionist now it's also surprising that prosecutors didn't bring out some of this on direct examination to sort of take this thing out, especially, for example, davidson's involvement with whole cogen, and that story, the fact that there are federal and state investigations looking at whether whole colgan was being extorted, davidson even testified under cross-examination that some of his communications when he was working on a deal to try to sell a sex tape back to whole cogen whether those were extortion. they also asked him about deals that he did on

behalf of clients it's charlie sheen, a way that he also benefited about a story i related to, to lindsay lohan. they laid out all of these different instances. again, not people who are currently in the headlines, but folks at the jury will be familiar and laid out how davidson was benefiting either himself on behalf of a client by getting money from people to avoid releasing embarrassing singh information. and we know there's a fine line right between a fair and lawful nda and straight extortion. and that's really what the defense attorneys tried to draw out here. were you trying to extort then candidate trump when you knew he was under pressure especially after the access hollywood tape and it's that line for those of us who didn't go to law school, to what extent does it exist? how bright is it? what is the difference between extortion and what keith davidson said he was doing? >> yeah, it's a really fine line that when we go back to what happened in late october 2016, davidson, you've been said yes, he is aware of the line and that he was not trying to sport money from trump, that instead, this was an agreement. he keeps trying to get away

from the hush money moniker and the campaign piece of it saying repeatedly that this wasn't tied to the campaign at all. >> exactly what she directly contradicts in text messages that he testified to on direct shortly after the deal was negotiated, right? he's like what have we done? he acknowledges that the agreement that was reached, the fact that stormy daniels story was suppressed, that that likely helped trump get elected. so in his own words, he is contradicted himself there, even at the moment, he was getting money from cohen here he says he wasn't thinking about the impact on the election, but this has been really, actually pretty surprising cross-examination because of how much new information damaging information for mr. davidson. but i think biggest thing that the defense has achieved right now is raising the question perhaps in the minds of the jurors, was this an attempt to extort him

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the industrial great products you need call clicker stuff on granger for the ones who get it done how solomon in new york welcome back to cnn's special coverage of the criminal trial of former president donald trump where the judge juan merchan is now weighing if donald trump further violated the gag order in that trial this morning, new york prosecutors argued the former president broke the order which directs he cannot speak publicly about the jury or witnesses in the case prosecutors presented these remarks from trump and what are they going to look at all the lives that gone? in the last drought, he got caught lying and the last trial so he got caught lying pure lime. >> and what are they going to look at that that's yuri was pick so fast, 95% democrats the

areas, mostly all democrat. >> you think of it as just a purely democrat area. it's very unfair situation that i can tell you michael cohen is a convicted liar and he's got no credibility whatsoever. he was a lawyer and you rely on your lawyers david's been very nice, nice let's discuss further with johnny jones, the 30 served as chief judge of the middle district court of pennsylvania and is now the president of dickson college-age. >> we appreciate your time. >> i want to know, at least on the front end these this happened before judge merchan's first ruling in which he find donald trump $9,000 for nine violations of the gag order based on what you just heard, are any or all of the four violations i think a couple of them could be violations technically, although it's clear that judge merchan is dubious about them,

i think the larger question here really is the, the judges, i would say increasing anxiety with particularly michael cohen wins social media postings explain that a little bit because that was something that trump well seen, todd blanche is lawyer brought up several times. >> what do you mean there? >> well, you know, yesterday in the order that the judge, merchan handed down, he alluded to the fact that the gag order is meant to be a shield and not a sword and shield. in that case, what he was writing about, it was a shield to protect witnesses notably michael cohen and stormy daniels but if the gag order is turned on its head, and for example, if michael cohen uses it to sort of flay a defenseless donald trump i think i think that's very worrisome to the judge and you can see that he's weighing how to deal with that. does he drop a gag order on them or

particularly michael cohen to me? frankly, it's inexplicable and maybe the prosecution can control their witness it's not their client. i recognize, but i said this previously. i think somebody is going to have to call him in. maybe judge merchan call him in and just tell him he's got to shut up on social media because he's baiting the former president. fair is fair. that doesn't give a license to the former president to violate the gag order. there's no question about that. but at the same time, i think judge merchan is struggling to level the playing field yeah. >> it was notable that cohen last week, i think said that he wasn't going to be commenting any more clearly, somebody had been had relayed to him exactly what you're talking about when it comes to what you heard from the former president's defensive from todd blanche today in terms of the justification and defense for these four issues with prosecutors have raised which one do you think is the most effective well, i think i think

blanche is raising this sort of specter of unfairness and he's also trying to compel the judge to think about again, the fact that this this is the presumed republican nominee for president, that this is a unique situation these are, these are close calls to make and blanche is reminding the judge of that. >> and again, he's going back to the the fact that these are matters of degree and not kind of capital offenses, if you will. he took a beating last week for the former president, it was tough. i mean, i think he had a really rough time it seems to me that the judge was a little bit more tolerant wmd today. he understands the blanche is doing his level best than a difficult situation to try to defend what in many cases are clear violations of the gag order yeah it should be

noted as we did at the top since that initial $9,000 fine, the former president has not done anything that prosecutors have raised as violations fascinating. >> to talk to you, judge johnny jones. the third we appreciate time, so thank you thanks for having me thank coming up much more on trump's hush money trial, including the view from his campaign are special coverage continues raffa, this every piece of evidence tells a story how would really happy. jesse l. martin sunday's at nine on cnn. >> sometimes jonah wrestles with falling asleep. so he takes z quell the world's number one sleep de brand, and wakes up feeling like himself. get the rest to be your best with non habit forming is equal. better days start with z

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donald trump did have some inaccuracies there. this is nothing to do with joe biden. this is a state case being brought by the district attorney, alvin bragg.

not to cross the line. he did not talk about anything. he wasn't allowed to. within that gag order, he's allowed to attack the judge. he's allowed to talk about the case. he's even allowed to go after the district attorney, but he's not allowed to talk about their family members, and of course, not the witnesses or the jurors. and we did not hear that from the former president yesterday. >> interesting. elena treene with the latest. elena, thank you very much. and phil, let me get back to you. i know you're outside the courthouse in new york city. >> thanks, wolf. i am here with cnn chief legal affairs correspondent paula reid. paula, first off, it's fascinating. he was reading those remarks. elena made a really great point. he stayed within the confines of the gag order, which seemed very intentional, which makes sense. >> it's notable because that is actually what we've seen over the past ten days now. before he was fined $9,000, you saw this

shift, and it happened as a lot of conservative commentators were calling for him to stop violating the gag order and use all this attention to campaign. and we've seen this shift away from these prolific violations of the gag order attacking the jury, attacking witnesses, attacking certain prosecutors. instead, he's pretty much kept his ire focused on the judge and d.a. alvin bragg, which is completely within the bounds of the gag order. but i will note that we have seen his allies on capitol hill instead sort of acting as surrogates, attacking, for example, some of the at least one prosecutor on the da's team and making some of these political arguments that trump can't give in the gag order on his behalf, whether officially or unofficially. >> okay, i have to ask because in the morning part of the cross examination, you said when they first started bringing up some of keith davidson's past work, more is about to come. just wait. or something along those lines. and then more came as charlie sheen. it was tila tequila, it was lindsay lohan. so now that i know you're clairvoyant, what are we expecting when they come back into session? obviously you've been talking about the defense

team has been very sharp and seems to have done fairly well. and framing how they want keith davidson to be viewed by the jury. what's next? >> so i think first we're going to see the defense continue their cross examination. and one thing that we haven't heard yet is their effort to point out that mr. davidson never spoke with a then candidate. trump and the then candidate was never involved in any of these discussions directly. so they're really going to hone in on that, be like, look, he's not in these emails. he's not in these text messages. you never spoke with the defendant. they're going to try to divorce their client from what happened with this hush money payment. and mr. davidson. so definitely expect that to be the next thing that we'll see.

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>> doctors preferred better science, better results. >> i'm natasha bertrand at the pentagon, and this is cnn. >> now to our other top story. chaos on college campuses all across the united states. new video coming in right now from portland state university, where pro-palestinian protesters just

clashed with police officers in riot gear, are working to take back the university library, which has been occupied now for days. similar scenes unfolding over at ucla this morning, where more than 100 people were arrested during the removal of an encampment there. cnn's kayla tausche is over at the white house for us. the president addressed those demonstrators just a little while ago. kayla, i want to go to you in a second. but first, i want to go to cnn's josh campbell in los angeles with the latest on the protests out there. josh what's the situation like on campus now? >> yeah, wolf, first was the warning from police to disperse. then came the arrests and now the cleanup. you can see behind me this was the area that was that large encampment in the quad here at ucla. authorities bringing in earth moving equipment as heavy equipment just about an hour ago, which is certainly making short work of this. assembling this area, there will be no sorting of personal effects here from these protesters. they're essentially

taking all this, throwing it into a dumpster, moving very quickly to get this back up and running. of course, that is what the university wanted all along to have this camp disassembled. there was a period of time where they did not call in law enforcement to take any action. that all changed yesterday, wolf. we were out here all day. we've been out here for a long time, but we started seeing a lot of resources moving in last night, and that was the indication that, look, something is about to go down. we saw dozens and dozens of police officers here about a mile from here at the fbi field office in los angeles that served as a staging ground of sorts, where we saw hundreds of police, several prisoner busses that were brought in. and then just after midnight, we saw authorities come and then go in california highway patrol leading that effort, clashing with some protesters at times trying to take people into custody. i saw some officers that had, powder from a fire extinguisher that were sprayed on them. listen here to one of the officials from chp talking to our colleague camila bernal about what officers faced at

least 100 sounds like from what he's saying, 132, it could go up from there. >> i'm sure there is going to be injuries that we are handling. i can't say for certain, but i know objects were being thrown at officers during the night. >> now, 132 people arrested that have been taken to various holding places. we're waiting to hear what those charges will be. interestingly, when we talk about that force that officers brought in, we're told that there were about 250 protesters that were here at this encampment, law enforcement brought in 250 chp officers. so essentially a 1 to 1 ratio to try to get these people into custody. again, just about 132 of them in custody. we're waiting to hear what those charges are. but a quick escalation here as police came. and this is something, wolf and phil, that we've seen across the country where there's been periods of time where law enforcement is as at the ready, universities then engage in negotiations with protesters, ultimately deciding that they want the police to come in. when that happens, we see what happened here overnight. this

really dramatic escalation. ucla phil. >> all right. josh, stay with us. i do want to bring in kayla tausche who's over at the white house. and kayla, there's a connection here because i think that escalation had something to do with the fact that unscheduled the white house announced that the president would be speaking in just a short amount of time earlier this morning, which we didn't know they were going to do in advance, which is rare for this president in particular. why did it happen? what did we hear? >> well, phil, you're right. those images from los angeles and elsewhere around the country played a very big role in the decision by the white house to have the president make this formal address from the roosevelt room earlier today. the belief previously was that there was no upside for the president to visit campus or even address these protests head on. but then when those images came in overnight, it was just seen that this was too politically fraught a moment and that the temperature was not going to go down organically. but to give you a sense for how quickly these were scheduled, national security spokesman john kirby did a gaggle with reporters at 10 a.m, and at that

moment, it wasn't even publicly being reported on the president's schedule that there were going to be these remarks just a few minutes later, biden, in those remarks, echoed things that he had said previously in statements that were published on paper. and the crux of that message is that this country supports free speech, but not hate speech. here's the president. >> we are not in an authoritarian nation where we silence people or squash dissent . neither are we a lawless country. we are a civil society, and order must prevail. there's the right to protest, but not the right to cause chaos. there is no place for hate speech or violence of any kind, whether it's anti-semitism, islamophobia , or discrimination against arab americans or palestinian americans. >> now on his way away from the lectern, he was asked whether there is a role for the national guard. he said simply no. and he was also asked if the protests

will have an impact on the policy that he pursues in the middle east. to that, he also said no. and the white house has been clear throughout this week that that cease fire and hostage deal that secretary blinken is pursuing in the region is what they see as the end game here. and they think that that will help the protests as well. guys >> yeah, the unquestionably complex dynamic still continuing to play out. kayla, task force live on the north lawn. thanks so much. and up next, back to our special coverage. donald trump's hush money trial court is set to resume in just moments. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. >> the trump hush money trial, gavel to gavel coverage the way only cnn can bring it to you. >> legal insight, expert analysis and real time updates live from the courtroom. follow the facts. follow the testimony. follow cnn. the future is not just going to happen. >> you have to make it. and if you want a successful business, all it takes is an idea. and now becomes a future where you grew

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$30 billion in trust. money has been set aside. you may be entitled to a portion of that money. call one 800 859 2400. that's one 800 859 2400. >> back now with cnn's special live coverage of donald trump's cover up trial. right now, court is in recess for a few more minutes. they're in recess for lunch. the attorney, keith davidson, who negotiated both the stormy daniels and karen mcdougal hush money agreement, is expected to return to the stand when proceedings resume. he will be cross-examined by trump's attorney, emil bove. my panel of experts is back with us in elliot williams. you're one of our experts. so one of the first things that beauvais did earlier was get keith davidson, the lawyer, to say that he had never met trump until this past tuesday. how significant is that? >> it's significant. it's pretty good because it suggests, and this is a point, that the defense will continue to push throughout the trial, that donald trump really wasn't involved in much of anything related to these schemes. like there's an argument being made

that really michael cohen was the driver of a lot of the conduct and the behavior that are at the heart of the charges here. it suggests that donald trump would not if there's any one individual that donald trump ought to have been interacting with, if he were truly guilty here, it would have been the attorney for these two women who are alleging extramarital relationships with him and so on. so it is a good credibility point for the defense. >> i think trump's attorney, emil beauvais, also asked questions centered on keith davidson's previous work. what's the point he's trying to make? well, i think he's trying to dirty up this whole mess and say, look, you keith davidson. >> yes, you represented stormy daniels and karen mcdougal, but this is your business. you represented all sorts of people who were adjacent to power, adjacent to fame and your job. essentially, you made a living by extracting settlements from these people. if we're talking about what's the direct relevance to the actual legal elements, there probably isn't much of one. but what they're dirtying up. mr. davidson, in the jury's eyes, they're

dirtying up this whole scheme. and i think to elliott's point, donald trump's lawyers want to paint him as sort of floating above and beyond all this. and there's this whole world underworld of opportunists and liars who are trying to threaten each other and profit off each other. and what that was, whatever they were all doing. this is trump's line of argument. donald trump was not part of that, you know, i'm sorry. >> go ahead. well, the whole point to me is they're trying to portray donald trump as the victim here. yeah. and that he was being shaken down essentially by davidson and his clients and that he had really nothing to do with it. but the reason they had to pay this money was because there was a shakedown. and he was just responding to that. and michael cohen was doing that on his behalf. but trump had nothing or floated above it, as you put, put it. >> and i think on that point, i've seen precious little evidence presented yet that trump wasn't floating above. i

mean, i've seen very little evidence of trump's direct involvement in getting this accomplishe right. and correct me if i'm wrong. no, you're right. >> a lot of that's going to come from michael cohen. but also there was there was a few tidbits in david pecker's testimony, right, that there were direct communications, but it's a great point, david. there hasn't not been much evidence yet. directly of donald trump's involvement in knowledge. >> well, there is an audio tape of donald trump talking to michael cohen about how much they're going to pay karen mcdougal. and there are canceled there are checks with donald trump's signature on them. now, if he was signing the checks and didn't know what it was about, that was one thing. but we had his former assistant testify to that. you know, he knew when he was signing checks what things were about. so, you know, that he paid or pecker said he seemed to pay attention to detail, but public service announcement on behalf of all prosecutors and frankly, defense attorneys too, which is that when a trial is 4

or 5 weeks long, not every witness is going to present the entire case. >> right. and prosecutors certainly haven't proven their entire case. you know, their burden now by any stretch of the imagination. and in all likelihood, if they're doing their jobs, future witnesses will will help tease a lot of this information out. but something that certainly has not been established thus far, 8 or 9 days in is, well, what was the what can we say about the involvement of the actual defendant, the receipts? >> let's not forget that trump's former executive assistant testified earlier that trump never engaged in email doesn't do email. so that would have been a record of something. but that would have changed everything there. >> yeah, that turns out to be very smart. lucky him. >> yeah. >> david chalian, our reporter inside the courtroom, told us that trump was paying much closer attention to keith davison's testimony during cross-examination and, quote, turned in his chair toward the witness stand. what do you make of that? >> well, i would imagine these

guys are the courtroom experts, but i would imagine most defendants probably pay a little bit more attention to cross-examination when their defense counsel is now skewering the prosecution's witness, because you're eager to see how, okay, guys, i'm paying you money here and how are you going to dismantle this? this witness for the prosecution? so you could imagine trump being a little more interested in that than hearing the prosecution try to build up its case with a witness . >> and to be blunt, cross-examination is a lot more like what people are used to seeing on television, where the questioning is more contentious. it's faster paced, people might people's tempers might get raised on cross-examination, and it's intense in a way that direct examination is where you have a guy literally going through document after document saying, is this your signature? is this for three hours straight? good point. >> everybody stand by a lot more coming up. our special coverage will continue just ahead. we'll be right back. >> a florida man is hospitalized , infected with anthrax sunday.

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outside the courthouse in new york and facility based in aggressive cross-examination today from trump's defense, at least so far. >> let's break it all down with cnn senior legal analyst elie honig, who's joining us over the magic wall right now. ally, what are today's key moments and what will we see when corp picks, picks back up in just a few minutes while wealth keith, david sen. will still be on the stand. he's in the middle of being cross-examined right now. and just to understand, first of all, who keith davidson is, he is very important here because he represented both karen mcdougal and stormy daniels in quick succession in 2016 in the days leading up to the election. now in his prior testimony, keith davidson laid out for the jury how we negotiate he did a deal between karen mcdougal and the national

enquirer where they bought her story and then did not run it for $150,000. now, today has focused much more on his representation of stormy daniels. and as keith davidson laid out, he ended up negotiating primarily with michael cohen, where michael cohen paid stormy daniel's $130,000 to keep silent, davidson incidentally took 45% of that for himself for an attorney's fee. now, importantly, davidson testified that he didn't deal directly with donald trump. but here's what he said about what his understanding was about why this deal was reached. davidson said there was an understanding that our activities may have in some way assisted the presidential campaign of donald trump. and again, remember this is happening about a week before the 2016 election. and other interesting point that davidson made this morning. he said, michael cohen was furious at donald trump. he said michael cohen said to him, i've saved that guy meeting donald trump's blank so many times

that you don't even know that blinken guy again, trump is not even paying me the uh, hundred $30,000 back now, trump does later end up paying michael cohen that money back and that sort of gets to the crux of which charged here. now, there were some interesting testimony earlier about this moment after the election when they have the agreement in place with stormy daniel's, and she goes on the jimmy kimmel show. now, michael cohen is very worried about what she will and won't say. let's take a quick look at that clip of stormy daniel's talking to jimmy kimmel in january 2017? >> do you have a non-disclosure agreement too high, you can't say whether you have a non-disclosure agreement, but if you didn't have a non-disclosure agreement, you most certainly could say, i don't have a non-disclosure agreement. yes. >> you're so smart, jimmy. thank you very much. >> as any of that, true? >> to find true so michael cohen and keith davidson both were very concerned about that interview that stormy daniel's

did. >> they didn't want her revealing what she had been paid to keep quiet now donald trump's defense teams started their cross-examination of keith davidson. they'll pick it up after lunch a couple of key points they made. first of all, keith davidson had no contact ever with donald trump while this was happening. he dealt through michael cohen. they also cast doubt on michael cohen's motives. keith davidson said michael cohen thought he was going to be appointed attorney general or secretary of state when donald trump became president and was furious and dismayed when that did not happen. and finally, keith davidson testified that the agreement was never explicitly, never in writing, specifically linked to the election itself. so wolfe, that cross-examination will resume in just a few minutes when keith davidson gets back on the stand, there will be paying it section as we always do. elie honig. thank you very much. aaron, back to you all right. >> well, so apologists is we're getting ready for keith davidson to come back in and i know you've indicated maybe another hour of a cross-examination, but then certainly it appears there'll be a redirect because what happened in the cross-examinati

on so far are sort of left you dumbfounded? >> yeah. they have a lot to clean up here because what the defense attorneys were able to do was raised the question of whether mr. davidson is actually engaged in the business of extortion and prosecutors didn't bring out a lot of the other deals and he's been involved in so it's fascinating. >> see the defense attorneys kind of step to the sayyed of stormy daniel's or karen mcdougal and focus on deals at davidson did for clients related to, for example, charlie sheen receiving millions of dollars for him, multiple clients also trying to get money from whole colgan in exchange for a sex tape and that davidson conceded on the stand was actually investigated davidson's interactions with whole cogen representatives were monitored by federal and state investigators. so again, this raises the question of whether what he was doing was possibly extorting. then candidate trump at a time, we're even davidson. it said, look stormy daniels stories only there was renewed interest after access hollywood tape. we knew this was a critical time before the election to get her

a deal. now, he argues that he did not extort anyone, but they certainly raise the question and a lot of a lot of confusion for me about why prosecutors didn't bring out some of this on direct gets sort of the sting out is they do it existed right? >> one would think particularly the whole cogen, example that's a case that has been widely, widely covered. >> one of the most significant media related cases that came out of that in recent history. so it's pretty surprising the prosecutors didn't bring it up. but they're going to have to clean it up on redirect, right? >> i mean, it doesn't it the case that the defense is trying to make. right. this was if somebody tried to take advantage of a situation and extort, write the exact word apology using what was striking in a very much aligns with what paul was just laying out. is this is a good reminder as we go day by day through a rather lengthy trial, that as we cover minute by minute feed by phi, that we're getting from our reporters inside the room that none of this is going to look great all of this is very unseemly game with people that perhaps you might not necessarily want to go into church with on a weekly basis

but that also means that the defense has real opportunities, one to poke holes to make their kind of overarching point, which is proved to me, donald trump knew about all of this. >> and three, as paul pointed out many times, actually making the case, that's alleged here, actually getting a conviction, actually getting all 12 people aligned with what prosecutors are alleging is not a slam dunk. >> it is not necessarily going to be easy because of how it's constructed, because of the different elements of the space. and because of the deaths are trying to connect through multiple different issues here. >> and this is a good reminder that trump has a legal team that is pretty good at what they do and they're going to take advantage of the fact that a lot of these witnesses aren't exactly the purest forms of individuals, i guess it kind of worth reminding what we, i know we have all said so many times, but to your point about the jury, right. >> the standard here in a criminal case, which is what they have used this business documents crowd to elevate this too, is of course, beyond a reasonable doubt and unanimity yeah, i think what we're going to see next is the defense attorneys are likely going to remind everyone that mr. davidson, at no point has testified that he had any contact with trump and trump was not directly involved in

facilitating this payment to stormy daniels that is really going to be key here. >> and so that leaves prosecutors really ultimately eventually relying on the word of who will michael cohen and the one thing everyone can agree on in this case, it seems so far is that no one has anything nice to say about michael cohen that's why the prosecutors need to put on these witnesses to support things that the jury will eventually here from michael cohen, but this is a tough case. it's much harder than just simply a falsifying business records case right? >> and now this also would mean and i know that we may get another another witness on the stand today because they said what another hour of cross and then one would assume given what paul is talking about, but they would be then a redirect and maybe even a re-cross but theoretically by the end of today, we may have the next witness on the stand then while my fingers are certainly cross for another c-span related witness, because that's my favorite thing that i think. what has been fascinating impala and team have outlined

this so well is the defense doesn't know what's coming they've not been prepared for who's coming next. they're not getting given much of a heads up on things, but also how in the wake of what at least up to this point has been a fairly difficult cross-examination for the prosecution's witness do they stack things to the change? six. how does this all work and play out going forward? remember we talked from the very beginning about how they were laying out of your foundational story through their witnesses. what they could drive the jury toward the beginning when you have the individual from c-span or the accountant come in, why they were doing that in terms? i think evidence what the point of that actually was. now, davidson, how do they keep drawing that thread to try and make their case, especially given the fact that the defensive had a solid effort over the course of the last couple of hours. >> all right. well, we await any minute. is they come back into that courtroom, wolfe? >> aaron, thank you very much. i want to discuss what's going on with carolyn cook. she's a trial and jury consultant. carolyn. thank you very much for joining us. as you know, trump's team has really been going after keith davidson for his past work, helping clients get hush money payments from

other celebrities, not just donald trump. >> how is that? likely the impact of jury that's a really good question. >> and you use the word hush money and i think polit might just use the opposite word, which has extortion so now that witnesses are on the stand being cross-examined, we're no longer having lawyers portray things and paint things now the jury is being seen, facts and the facts look like a lot of bottom feeders or feeder fish on a barge in the barnes donald trump might not be aware here of what those feeder fish are doing. >> and so the jury and they are not a monolith. >> they're all different individuals, 12 of them. they're all going to have their own perspective. but it's going to be hard for them to ignore the weaknesses because people are looking for the evidence the evidence that shows that trump is in them the middle of this scheme and so

far it looks like people capitalizing on their connections to trump, to try and make some money. and so my impression of what i read and again, we're just peeking through the cracks of the courtroom door here where the jurors are getting the whole thing. but what i thought i read was it doesn't really look like davidson is putty in the prosecutor's hands and he doesn't seem to have any ax to grind. and who knows, maybe he thinks this is great pr, for him to get more business in the future. >> we just saw trump walkie back into the courtroom from this lunch break with the questioning is about to resume momentarily. we'll continue to watch that as well, carolyn. so bottom line, what stood out to you the most as the most significant part of keith davidson testimony, at least so far today well what what stands out to me the most is that he's doing these dealings on behalf of his clients and so it's not something that trump

is orchestrating at all. >> and then i'm not sure if this came out through him, but i think he was quoting michael cohen as having a certain level of frustration that he couldn't get in touch with his guide because this guy was out in five different states. and so something like that, a phrase like i can really stick with a jury and then when cohen seems to take the ball himself and run it down on the court himself. it sounds like he's trying to make it happen. and what's missing is trump. he's the one who's on trial. and so i think jurors are really looking for where's trump in all this? where is he? >> he's sitting there in the courtroom as the 2016 presidential election results were coming in. a keith davidson says, he texted then national enquirer editor dylan howard, and i'm quoting now what have we done? and that howard responded, oh my god. how do you think the jury will

take that? >> well you know, it's kinda funny. i i can only am i like a juror. no, not really. but, you know, i wish i was. but it almost seems like a little bit of self-importance because it is the national enquirer. it's not the new york times. it is called the tablet, so i almost think that the egos of these people, they think they're so important and they can just bring down people with their deals. and i don't know. >> maybe the jury's thinking they're not as important as they think they are. >> again, i don't know. we'll find out we will be certainly well, carolyn cook. thanks very much for joining us. we'll continue this conversation down the road. and once again, court is set to resume any minute. now, don't go anywhere are special live coverage will continue right after this every weekday morning, cnn five

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with us. what do you make of that i just chuckle hearing you say that i'm sorry, wolfe the absolutely. >> hundred percent. this speaks to michael cohen's credibility and this is the kind of information that it is in the defense's interest to get out about this witness who will certainly be testifying at the trial. number of things have come out about his temper, the way he interacted with people bordering on his going rogue from the former president, whether he did and i would think you're going to see more of that from the defense. >> let's the prosecution. what's the prosecution's strategy? elie over here with davidson well, they're trying to do a couple of things. >> first of all, they're trying to show that davidson was one of those bottom feeders to quote the prior guests, too, i think explained it really well. who was out there doing business profiting from his clients in ways where he's dealing with michael cohen in the underworld of shady dealings that happens at the donald trump was not part of it to the point of michael cohen if this jury in a normal case,

this jury would not know who michael cohen is. now they all presumably do know who he is but if this was a normal case and they had not yet seen michael cohen on the stand, had never seen him on tv. they would think this is the worst human being ever born at this point. i mean, every witness and these are the prosecution's witnesses. has said he is dishonest. he was difficult, he was aggressive, he was threatening. now i will say though michael cohen is different. i mean, i know michael cohen. i think we've all met him at various times. >> he can be persuasive, he can be likable, he can be charming now, i don't think when he gets on the stand, he's going to come across as an offensive personality to the jury, but it doesn't really matter so much. >> what michael cohen's like right now in 2024, the relevance is, what was he like back then in 2016? so they are doing the trump's team is doing a good job of pre, dirty gang up. michael coleman before even takes a stand, even setting aside what the pre michael cohen was like. they have gotten ten days almost like constant drumbeat of bad information about this

individual that ostensibly they didn't have a lot of background with whatever they knew before what they know now is pretty bad. >> but well, you know that that donald trump used him as his fixer and that he decided not to bring him to washington. he wanted to be in the white house staff, maybe white house counsel, whatever he decided not to bring them to washington cnn nose from our own reporting that he wasn't a favorite of the family, but but but he the president elect, did use him in lots of ways because he likes aggressiveness and the question i think that will be raised to michael cohen is why would you do this on your own? why would you lay out $130,000 to stormy daniel when you're working for an a sensible billionaire and you're taking out a home equity loan like why why would you do that? and i think he,

you know, they'll try and make him come across as somebody who was trying to do his job to be subservient and protect donald trump at all costs? >> i don't say i'll do he did at the direction of the prison, i would imagine. >> but yeah, the wolfe i know davidson's back on the san for cross-examination out, but we should just note that when when the brake finished and they entered the courtroom trump's team was asking this is back to the gag order issue, asking judge merchan for preclearance to post some articles on truth, social deal that mentioned witnesses or the like. and i guess trump's attorney said, well, he was concerned. he the former president that this may violate and the jug said, i'm not going to be able to assess every single article you want to post to truth, social, and the legal was saying, well, this is an ambiguous gag order, and the judges rejected that. he said, i don't think there's

any ambiguity here. and the rule of thumb should be if you are at all all concerned about it, or you are in doubt about whether oppose something, steer clear. >> one can make you just want good the defense can try to make an argument that this is a show of good faith from the defendant to the court that he wants to ensure that he's complying with the judge's orders and so on. but no, judge would agree to be deputy ties in effect as a member of trump's defense or communications team, you start vetting whether his statements are permissible. so the judge immediately shot that as you should that's a good point elliott. >> let me just follow up keith davidson, who was the attorney for both stormy daniels and karen mcdougal he testified this is under oath that he i came up with pseudonyms for both trump and stormy daniel's is that normal in so-called confidential oh, my goodness. so i've certainly seen anonymized agreements where you would use initials or redacted name or something like that.

now, look, i am getting as much a crash course and the seedy underbelly of how these contracts works as the rest of america. and so i'm not sure how these might typically work in that sense. what i am struck by is there was nothing formal about the use of these pseudonyms and given that at least some of the folks who are testifying today, we're trying to refer to it as a legitimate contract i think one could say see that the legitimacy of the contract is in question because it's not clear who the parties to it were. right. if if somebody slaps a name on this guy named david davidson or whatever it was, is not a party to the contract were they to try to enforce this in court? i think a smart attorney let's say wait a second. who is this executed by? who is was dennis for david? dennis david dennis sign right. there was a real person. i mean, it's so there's all kinds of don't there was a veil of secrecy

over all of this and prosecutors will argue that's because donald trump and michael cohen knew this was shading, knew this was illegal, and to the actual charges, knew they were trying to defraud the electorate. >> they were trying to keep this information from coming out before the election and they didn't want to have to disclose it as part of their campaign disclosures. the response is going to be from trump's team. of course, there were secrecy about this. we're getting shaken down. this will be there there. take we're getting shaken down by this guy who is threatening to reveal things that will be humiliating for donald trump and for his family. and so natural this is a hush money agreement. we agree. and so hush money agreements, you don't want them to become public, you don't want them to become known. so again, there's, there's always two ways of looking at things. almost always two ways of looking at things. and you can see that playing out. >> and the only way you get the answer is michael cohen, who has said this many times that what he was doing, he was doing at the direction and the protection of donald trump. and so the jury is going to have to believe him, want to turn back

once again to that gag order hearing. that was held just before testimony resume today, trump's attorney pointed to president biden's jokes over at the white house correspondents association dinner they're night. as an example of why he trump needs to be able to respond to his opponent in the presidential election. >> well, that's the case. they've been making, which is that this is his first amendment rights that he's he's a candidate, and that he has to be able to have pre-speech and respond when he's criticized. i think that what he says about joe biden hasn't come up in the gag orders. what he has said about michael cohen and the jury has while trump claims that this is all being done at the behest of joe biden that certainly hasn't been proven. and so, you know, when he mentioned joe biden's name as a candidate is running against him. i think that's not an issue.

>> you could say anything he wants about joe biden. let's play but this guy, he ducks, we should be clear. it's not like he's been shy about critiquing the president as opposed. >> and here's how narrow the gag order is. donald trump gave a whole campaign rally last night, i think in wisconsin, where he talked at length about this trial. >> he doesn't appear to have violated the gag order. >> he can criticize the indictment. the da the judge, he doesn't every day he can saying justice department the line even if they're false as he can say it under the gag order and under the first amendment, all he has to do and this goes to the point we were talking about before with the articles where trump's team wanted them pre-cleared. >> if i was the judge, i'd say very simple formula. read each article. does it mention a witness? doesn't mention a juror, doesn't mention a member of the court's deaf or their families if so, do not post it. >> interesting, very interesting. all right, guys, everybody stay with us. there's a lot more coming up. the trial is now back underway. we're following every twist and turn are special live coverage. we'll continue it's coming up next every piece of

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for a cause, get started today, accustoming.com i'm elizabeth wagmeister in los angeles in this is cnn we continue our breaking news coverage of donald trump's hush money criminal trial here in manhattan. right now, the defense is quite cross-examining the former attorney for stormy daniels, trump, however, appears concerned about reports that he's falling asleep just before court resumed moments ago, he posted on truth social the following quote, i don't

fall asleep during the crooked da's witch hunt especially not today. i simply close my beautiful blue eyes, sometimes listen intensely. take it all in three exclamation points joining, joining us now is a reporter, alayna treene has been following the trump campaign here this entire campaign. and cnn political commentator, republican strategist and former okay, campaign adviser, david urban. all right, so david i have to say i was in the courtroom the other day and i saw him lean back sometimes closing. i saw that i actually just going to take this very seriously for one second and say, i did not appear to me that he was ever sleeping. he was paying attention various positions. however, the way he chooses to do this and focus on his beautiful blue eyes and the optics. he cares about the optics david yeah. >> look, it's that's a classic trump tweet, right about this. he's trying to make light of the situation a little bit and say, look, i'm not sleeping, although i have

to say sitting there for hours and hours and hours without a diet coke it's probably killing them. right? it's probably killing him. he is he's usually i'm sure very caffeinated during the day. and is as folks who know drink cokes and died cokes, if you're missing one or two a day, let alone, i'm sure he's missing probably about ten a day. it's probably rough i will say the other de the time when were they played a c-span video of trump and there's a screen right in front of him. and at that point, david, he's leaning in really close to look at it. >> there were moments when he incredibly engaged in paying attention, but but but but frequently talking to his lawyers again, certainly doesn't seem like thank you. >> sleeping. >> but alayna, all of this is to the david's point. he's spending his entire day sitting in a courtroom in a deeply uncomfortable chair and you're on the campaign trail where he isn't. so what are you hearing from voters about this trial? they paying attention to it. do they? care about it? did they notice that he's not out with them and it's really interesting. >> i actually i was in

wisconsin it yesterday for the first of two of donald trump's rallies. i asked voters that exact question. i asked many of them, are you paying attention to this trial? what do you make of it? the majority of them and of course, these are trump supporters. the type of people who show up on a wednesday, take off work to go to his campaign events. the majority of them said, we're not really paying attention. i don't think there's any point to this. they couldn't even really tell me what the trial was about except to say that they think it's a sham and that they don't think it's worth their attention. but there are also some other trump's supporters who said luck i think i am watching this. i sometimes watch cnn, i watch it on fox news and they said they repeated the same leinz that we hear from donald trump. now, apart from that from other voters, and sometimes when i'm catching up with other people at different events like outside, different campaign events that aren't just for donald trump they argue that look, it's i think this is a hard trial for them to grasp in some respects because the optics around this

trial as well, it's obviously the first criminal trial that a former president has ever faced. it's unprecedented and they recognize that point. but there's still unsure of whether or not that would change their overall opinion. donald trump and that's something i've been really trying to pay attention to a lot to take a step back and say how is this actually playing with voters? because we're obviously aaron paying such close attention to this and all of the minute details of what is going on. but i think a lot of america isn't and so it's one good thing to keep in mind, particularly when you talk about the politics of it yeah, an important david, you know, also the tweet itself. >> i'm sorry. whatever the post on truth, social, it said right the crooked or which on da whatever those are the words that are always used. but this case is about the de. and just to be clear, obviously, trump can say what he wants about the da and the judge that doesn't violate the gag order. he has been it appears more careful in the past few days about things he's been posting and saying

they'd been specifically about the da and the judge. >> and we know we didn't care about $9,000 fine, but the judge said jail could be next, do you think that from what you're seeing, it appears that trump is taking this seriously i think, you that the president understands that he can but listen. the one thing i think it bothers him is that he can't punch back on michael cohen, right? he feels it's unfair that michael cohen can go on social media for hours a day in and kinda take an ax to him and he can bonus said he's not gonna do that now. well, let's wait and see, right. let's wait and see. he was he was on i was on last night on social media, so but but you're right. he can he can rail against a lot of things and it's well within the it's in the confines of the order and i think he's probably he's been it's been explained to them and i think he's just going to continue down that path and to the extent that the narrative continues, just feed that this is it's lawfare just by being continued against him. the tweets will continue on that

vein all right. >> well, alaimo, david, thank you both very much. >> and our special coverage of the foreign presence, historic criminal trial continues after this right now, keith davidson, under cross-examination, just had headphones on listening to a conversation to refresh his memory will tell you exactly what is happening as we returned with our special coverage sunday. story. in one of the world's most diverse egos since those eigen watson confronts the stark reality of climate change are to fight for us the whole story with anderson cooper sunday at eight on cnn my friends call me sam. >> i naturally hold a lot of stress in my digestive system as a lot of women do when i travel, i get constipated. >> i get really poop shy when i started taking dso one, i immediately noticed how much lighter i felt fibrin alive it

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lunch. are special coverage of donald trump's hush money criminal trial in new york continues right now and joining us now to discuss what's going on. >> cnn, presidential historian and former director of the nixon presidential library. tim nathaly. tim, thanks. thanks for joining us. as you probably know, keith keith davidson, the lawyer testified that he texted then national enquirer editor dylan howard, and i'm quoting now, what have we done this on election night back in 2016, and howard responded, oh, my god here are two men who were involved in this alleged cover up commenting on making history. what does that say to you it says a lot about the ethics of the 2016 campaign it also might explain why the national enquirer did not want to play a role in the stormy daniels catch and kill so as a certain point pecker and his

lieutenants realized that they were engaged in something they shouldn't be doing i wonder though what effect this will all have on the american public's perception of donald trump? >> are they learning anything about the former president that they didn't already know? >> it's a good question. what do you think i think they already know this about donald trump? >> i don't think this affects them either way the sorted details just a reminder of the world in which he operated. and it's a world that he brought to the oval office politically, however, i don't think this makes much of a difference the public is not learning anything new about donald trump what goes through your head, tim, as you watch this trial of the presumptive republican presidential nominee fighting felony charges only a few months before a presidential election well, there are two things that go through my mind. >> the first is the strength of our institutions as a

constitutional democracy. the very fact that a grand jury can find that someone should be indicted, even if that person was once the most powerful person in the world. and retain and remember mainz, a politically important person that's a very healthy sign the second thing that goes through my mind is concern about the republican party the republican party is about to ring nominate someone about whom there are many, many ethical and legal questions important point in an interview yesterday, tim with the milwaukee journal sentinel, trump did not necessarily commit to accepting the results of the 2024 presidential election, potentially, how dangerous is that? well, it's extraordinarily dangerous. it won't be as dangerous in washington dc as it was in 2020. because in the national

guard and the, and the pentagon and local police we'll all be committed to keeping everything peaceful, which was not necessarily the case in 2020 because of the lack of leadership at the center of our government i worry about what happens outside of washington, dc in the days after the election should president biden be reelected will president trump, former president trump's supporters, except? the outcome that's what i worry about. i really do worry about political violence at the end of this year. >> yeah, that's scary to even hear that tim naaf dali, the presidential historian, thank you very much for joining us into our viewers. we're going to keep following all the new developments out of the new york courtroom has are special coverage of donald trump's hush money trial continues the

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stronger, healthier. with the oraa ring i'm kevin lip ttac at the white house and this is cnn and welcome back to our special coverage of former president trump's hush money trial. keith davidson stormy daniels, former attorney and karen mcdougal's former attorney is back on the stand cross-examination is continuing. phil mattingly, paula reid are back and in these past few moments, there have been some very interesting questions asked on cross including one saying that while you should we know, she ended up doing this deal with michael cohen for $130,000, but that larry flint had maybe offered $1 million. >> he has a little confusing exactly what he was offering, but it appeared that he was offering her million dollars and her her legal costs as

well. i think it just underscores the cd world that we're talking about, that they're operating in. >> now here defense attorneys are confronting davidson with another recording in which he told michael cohen the daniels wanted the money. >> and this is interesting because i think they're pressuring him here ahead of the election and he's about say, if he loses this election and he's going to lose, we all lose all of our nothing leverage. so here they're honing in on this question of leverage. did you think that you had quote leverage over trump ahead of the election that's significant because if you think you have leveraged over someone that speaks more to extortion as opposed to a mutually beneficial agreement? where someone suppresses a story. >> davidson confirmed he said if he loses trump this election and he's going to lose, we all lose. >> all f-ing leverage. and this is what prosecutors are really hammering davidson on. is this question of whether he was trying to extort trump ahead of

the election should up to this point, was fascinating, paul and i were talking about before we came on where he is explicit, davidson is explicitly asked, did you use the word leverage and conversations with michael cohen davidson said no and then they brought out a recording and it was where right before they play the recording that we need where were you aware that michael cohen may have recorded your conversations and davidson's candidly acknowledges, yes. i believe that was possible because the conversations were very different at different points where he talked about how in his words seem bassy, see more self-serving and some conversations implying that perhaps he was according to they play the recording where in fact he uses the word leverage. now this is another recording that they're playing where in fact davidson uses the word levers. so to paula's point, trying to lay out the kind of extortion versus what an nda actually is or means dynamic that they've been talking about throughout the course of this cross-examinatio n. and now catching him and saying, no, i never said that. oh, wait, no, it's on tape. i did say it paul, let me ask you about says phil just mentioned

that they were asking keith davidson about cohen's tone and he did say sometimes he's seen much more formal and buttoned up and prepared and organized than others. >> and i wasn't sure is that to try to make the point that sometimes you've recorded in sometimes it didn't. or finally, when you're prepared, it's because trump signed off and you've got all your t's crossed or what is going to be the takeaway here? >> i think davidson knew from his many years swimming in these kinds of waters that if michael cohen was being that on script, he was likely being recorded now i. want to step away. big picture, many years swimming, you're just going, i know this was certain sources, you know, if they really change it up, you're like, am i being recorded perhaps you just you kinda learn people's rhythms and he clearly knew cohen's rhythm as being very erotic and emotional. so if he's it seemed scripted, davidson was right to be concerned. but remember, davidson is the one who receives the money directly from michael cohen at the heart of this case, there's an allegation that trump then paid cohen back and covered it up,

covered up that this was hush money and said, said this was legal services or retainer. but if you watch davidson right now on the stand, you can see where some jurors might eventually wonder, well, was cohen just doing what he needed to due to advocate for his client and protect him, from extortion. i mean, so far this has been a powerful cross. who are the defense and just raising some questions about what exactly happened in the days leading up to the election and what trump was eventually reimbursement saying, right. >> and i guess fill in a sense also making the point of of course, everybody knew this could be relevant to the election. that didn't maybe even conceding that point, but that is different than saying that it was done for the purpose of the falsification and at trump's orders and all of the other levels which are needed for it to become a crime. yeah, it was a central part of their back-and-forth earlier today where he was making clear that this wasn't about the election we weren't trying to use the election despite the fact that i have text messages on the election saying, oh no, or what did we do? >> seem very clearly that at least they were aware on the periphery that in fact this was the republican nominee for president, and he could in fact

become president. and so whether or not jurors draw that direct connection obviously it's very much up to them, but it is certainly a central theme that we've gotten throughout the course of this cross and we're going to stay here because i know this is kinda happy, fast and furious back and forth here now in this cross, so we're going to take a brief break. >> we're going to come back. we're going to obviously this is next question is going to come in. we'll be ready to share it with you. our special coverage of the former president's trial continues in a moment wanted a man is hospitalized, infected with anthrax sunday. this became the bureau's number one crying to solve how would really happen? >> jesse l. martin, sunday at nine on cnn we have a garage door that doesn't lift. so i went on. angie took me just a handful of minutes. >> so vendors who were knowledgeable, they do quality work, they wanted us to be happy with the work done as well the beautiful ghraieb get started today at angie.com i tried a bunch of different probiotics before seed and they

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8085920400 welcome back to our breaking news coverage of donald trump's unprecedented hush, money criminal trial in new york. >> i'm wolf blitzer, the nation's capital erin burnett is just outside the court in new york. we are tracking minute by minute updates as trump's defense attorney just finished cross-examining a key lawyer talking about keith davidson. he represented both stormy daniels and karen mcdougal, who were both paid to keep quiet about alleged affairs with trump aaron and the prosecution requested a five-minute break here to decide whether they're going to try to do redirect examination. >> and davidson testimony so far, some really crucial moments both on direct and in these recent moments i can cross. he says these deals were crafted in the weeks before the 2016 election, and he said that he never had any interaction with trump directly full

mattingly and paula reid you're back with me, so paula as i said, they just asked for a five-minute break and you said this is a five-minute break where you sit down and go oh, emg, we need to clean up on il5. >> yeah. they do. i mean, this was incredibly effective cross-examination, largely because the prosecution did not themselves wearing up a lot of davidson's other dealings deals that he brokers from clients for clients who got money from, for example, charlie sheen or going to try to get money from how cogen in exchange for a sex tape, something more. some of his interactions were monitored by the authority suited incredibly damaging things that raise questions about out whether davidson was indeed in the business of exporting trump. >> this their back-end, keith davis is back on the stand. this is big, but trump glanced at the manhattan da, alvin bragg as he walked in. he hasn't been in yet, has he wasn't there the other day when i was there are exactly right so this is fascinating. alvin bragg of it all. so the district attorney, who oversees

this case, but he has taken a very low profile here when we had the civil case, just a few blocks away, the attorney general of the state of new york, letitia james, she talked to the microphones every single day, often responded to trump on social media. alvin bragg is deliberately taking an extremely different approach. he is not often in the court. you never hear from him, even in his few media appearances, he has not answered questions recently about this case. so the fact that he's in court today, that's really interesting especially because they just think are killed on cross. so this is fascinating they get killed so he's not far away. >> maybe he was in that room waiting and saying i'm going to oversee the clean harbors report that he had walked in once oh man, it's one of the things we're like you didn't have a great day and your boss comes into the room with you. i'm just here to right. i'm here right? interesting in terms of what the prosecutors come back with is kinda the two things that connected the entire cross, which is no proof that donald trump had any knowledge that his from keith david instead of what happened, no direct proof including the

defense attorney at the very end, it was closing out by looking through the official agreement and making clear that the space where donald trump or the student they used for donald trump was supposed to be signed, was actually left empty. >> and the other as well was trying to underscore that there was a connection to the election. >> again, we'll paul has been walking everybody through for the last several hours, about whether or not this was extortion or just kind of the process of getting to an nda that was the clear point that they started with, that they continued through and continue to try and prove and it's how they closed as well. certainly be something that prosecuted have to respond and of course, it's interesting, trump knowing the importance, having watched that cross, seeing alvin bragg come in, a guy who, an hour before, he had post on truth social was crooked or i i'm always confused whether it's crooked or corrupt, but in which definitely which on i'll brag but what was in there. >> and now there they are again, glancing quickly, but that's that's ten, 15 feet away at the most. >> it's it's just it's indicative of this case, but again, i am surprised to see

alvin bragg because she has taken such a low, a low profile and the decision not to engage constantly. quite a contrast to the other term trial was talking months ago. now the jury has returned to the courtroom as the prosecution begins, its redirect of davidson, and it's gonna be interesting how they go through really what the defense did to completely undercut davidson's credibility. we lost count of how many times he said he could not recall how many times he couldn't remember something and then his recollection to be refreshed for something that was often not very favorable to him. so this is going to be fascinating to watch joshua steinglass. he's back at the podium and he has his work cut out for him and the boss boss is watching. >> the boss is there in the room. all right. paul unfilled wolfe back to you, erin. thanks very much. i panelist still with me and elliot williams. we have a clip that i want to play for you and our viewers of keith davidson, the lawyer who has been testifying. he is now under more more questioning and this was an interview did back in 28 team with cnn's sayyed,

let me play the clip for you last conversation i had with michael cohen, he called to offer his opinion as to whether or not ms daniels and mcdougal had breached attorney-client privilege and thereby waived it. >> and it was his assertion that each of them had and he was encouraging me and informing me as to his opinion that they in fact had wave the attorney client privilege and he suggested that it would be appropriate for me let's go out into the media and spill my guts. >> are you here at the behest of michael cohen? >> no. no no. not in any way, shape, or form? what do you think i'm having a hard time seeing where he's going with that now, the sort of on the attorney-client privilege point conversations that a client has with their attorney are protected about the scope of the representation. >> if the client chooses to go forward that privilege rests with the client and perhaps

he's making the point there that perhaps ms daniels had gone forward there, but i'm just not quite sure how that helps him. i don't know if it's interesting that trump's lawyers have been crying repeatedly to paint the keith davidson, the man we just heard as totally unsavory, who likes to work with unsavory kinds of individual? >> yeah, for sure. there was a really important moment of cross-examination that happened a few minutes ago where they got davidson to admit that he said at one point if he meaning trump if trump loses the election we all lose all blanking leverage. again the defense is driving at this point that this was a shakedown. forget about the legal technical definition of extortion, but this was a shakedown and the reason that matters is the prosecution theory is this was actually a campaign expenditure. this was money that donald trump and michael cohen were spending to protect him from the election. and that therefore they falsified the records and therefore the evaluated new york law and campaign finance

law. if the jury thinks this is all just a shake down, there's no crime in structuring a payment where you're being shaken down in order to protect yourself, your family, even if it's campaign related, if the jury thinks this is a shakedown, they're going to throw this case out and that's why they use the words extortion multiple times. on cross-examination did aid to suggest that we weren't looking at just a normal structure transaction, but someone trying to buy off someone else's silence with threat but the question is, as i said earlier, who approached whom which came first, chicken or we know the chicken? yeah. i mean, mcdougal and daniels through keith davidson, brian came first right. and now what what the prosecution has to do is try and rehabilitate keith davidson because he's been torn apart by trump's lawyers and they did a very effective jog and making him look like a shakedown artists and making

trump looked like the victim here and they're going to have to figure out a way to reverse that rehabilitate davidson into somebody not unsavory and unethical? and that's not going to be easy to tell you exactly how you do it you don't get into a back-and-forth about you're a bad guy. now, i'm going to come up and say, how much of a good guy you are let it go. what they audit i think. and again, i don't speak for them, but i think what you do is go back to the strength of their case and just say on this date, did you have a meeting with stormy daniel's on this date? did you execute this agreement? yes. boom i get out of there and that's where they're starting steinglass, isn't district attorney on the prosecution side, is now asking questions and it says you're the prosecutor asked davidson whether michael avenatti at that point was representing daniels and had sued cohen and davidson? i believe so. they also asked in this portion of redirect, is the recorded

conversation that michael cohen had recorded where you heard in the earlier testimony that davidson was noticed a change in the tone of the conversation that michael cohen was being far more structured and deliberate. and what he was saying and the content of that recorded conversation. so i don't think this is about eliot's point yes. they taught them apart and they need to rebuild. but it's not about building up davidson's character here in some way that he is the one on trial or not it is about utilizing him for the actual purpose to the charges that case, right that they have to make him believable. the seem more ethical than he appeared when trump's attorneys were questioning him. >> the other thing i left out is that anything one can only cross-examine on that which came up in direct. one can only redirect on that which came up in cross and on and on and on. if they returned to this question specifically of the credibility of davidson that

gives the defense an opening to bring that credibility issues right back. so they should just stick to i think just stick to things that they can establish that helped their case and not give the defense and opening for further another unsavory character has now entered the cast and michael avenatti is becoming a figure that is being spoken about on cross-examinati on. and now again, on redirect, i think the point they're driving at is some of this behavior by stormy daniels and her team? happened after davidson had been essentially removed as her representative. and now michael avenatti, he's representing here, but boy, again, i don't like that as a prosecutor because it's just one more snake in the pit here. they've already just spent the last day and a half hearing. >> the only options available they don't get to choose they're saying, but avanade is you don't want it. >> no, but neither side wants anything to do with michael avenatti work for the defense more than the presidency? >> yeah. i agree. another look? we're i want to quickly glory, get your thoughts on what trump

posted on social media. i don't fall asleep during the cricket das, which aren't especially not today. i simply close by beautiful blue eyes, sometimes listened and and take it all in well, it's clearly gotten to him. this notion that he's sleepy, don as joe biden referred to him and he had to he wants to clarify the record that he's just taking it all in and listening and he's pretty vein and he wouldn't want that to be said about them. so he posted it on truth social and that he does close his eyes. i don't know whether they're beautiful blue eyes. i'll leave that out of the record. but the first time he's complimented itself size. >> but i think he wants to let everyone know that he just sits back, closes his eyes and listened i don't fall asleep as precisely the thing that would be set by someone who does falsely high guns. everybody stay with us a lot more coming

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happens here. >> judge. jeff swartz joins me now. so, judge, a lot to ask you about, that's happened and just these past few moments. but one thing that happened after the cross-examination, the prosecution of requested this five-minute break after what had been a very difficult cross-examination for the prosecution. and afterwards, when they came back in the attorney general, alvin bragg was there and he has not yet been in that courtroom until today at that moment, does that signal anything to you not really. >> i think that it's one of those days where his the minions are having a difficult afternoon. >> i think he really was there to let them know that he was still supporting them. i don't think that it brings up any thought process that he's going to involve himself from the case any deeper than he already has? >> so okay. which is important. and as you see it as a measure of support, judge, let me ask you, though, when you talk about them having a difficult afternoon as as a defense attorney, as a judge, you've seen this from all sides,

having a difficult cross-examination as the prosecution just had, right where there was questions raised about really whether this was much more of extortion done, really all by michael cohen without trump's involvement. does a witness like this in a moment like that, is that something you could say this could be what the case turns upon are no yeah, it can turn upon it, but i want to look at a different thought process on that the more they dirty up the witnesses who surrounded donald trump, people that he did business with or he was aware that he was doing business with you start to wonder is this who donald trump is two. and i think the jury has to wonder, why is he surrounded by actually a michael collin or the people that he associates with whether it was mcdougal or whether it was stormy, daniel's, or any of these other people, why is he surrounded? i'm self that those kind of people, and it's

almost like your guilt by association. and that is, are you one of them? and i think that's a thought process that the prosecution will start to center upon it more of their witnesses start to get dirty deaf too much can something like that, though when you're talking about, you know, sort of just guilt by association or you know, your character is reflective of how you you behave and those who are around you. >> i understand what you're saying. but in a criminal case, where are the standard is beyond a reasonable doubt and you only need one juror to have that reasonable doubt. how important is that sort of character argument that you're making i don't. first of all, i think that the prosecution always has the answer that we don't go out and hire new witnesses to say what i want them to say we are stuck with the people that are involved. we they are the people that are here and the witnesses are who they are as we find them. and

that argument is always pretty effective with a jury as they understand that there's criminal activity of any kind than its criminals, you're going to hear from to a great extent i don't think that that really is going to affect the character idea will affect it all that much. >> it is going to come down to, was donald trump aware of all of this? >> was he in control of the actions of the people that were involved here? was he the person that was making the direction of the negotiations? did he tell michael cohen what to do and how to do it? and if he did, then that's what's going to turn on this and they're going to have to be they're going to have to be convinced that he was ni deepen this, that it wasn't just as to tipping in the water all right well jeff, swartz, i appreciate obviously defense attorney and former florida judge. thank you very much and more of our special coverage when we come back like right now, you've got to re re cross-examination and you've

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plus ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. don't wait- call today. news, net welcome back to our special coverage of donald trump's hush money criminal trial. the defense has just finished cross-examining keith davidson, the former lawyer for the adult film star stormy daniels. joining us now cnn's

alayna treene, who's been following the trump campaign. she's been covering the campaign trail for us, alayna, the president, took his day off yesterday from the trial. there was no trial yesterday. wednesday's are off days. he held rallies in both wisconsin and michigan two very key battleground state tell us about the time he spent talking about the actual hush-money case when he spoke publicly and how is the campaign in general handling trumping back in court today right? while wealth, he spent those rallies yesterday, both in michigan and wisconsin railing against the gag order in this case and criticizing the job i just well as blaming the case overall on joe biden. now, of course, i think it's noteworthy to point out the timing of those comments. they came one day after the judge in this case had find donald trump $9,000 for nine separate violations of the gag order. that's $1,000 for each violation. and then of course, they at a hearing this morning on the gag order as well,

though we don't know what the judge has decided in that just yet, take a listen framed bit though, while speaking in michigan yesterday i have come here today from new york city where i'm being forced to sit for days on end in a kangaroo courtroom with a corrupt and conflicted judge enduring a biden signed show trial at the hands of a marxist district attorney saurez fact, who's taking orders from the biden administration? now a few things i want to point out their walls. one is that he said that he was forced to be in court and part of that is true. he is stuck in court four days out of the week, but wednesday's saturdays and sundays, he is able to campaign and though we did see him on the trail yesterday, that was actually the first time we saw him hit the campaign israel, since this trial began more than two weeks ago, part of that is because he tried to hold another rally, had to

cancel out the 11th hour due to storm weather. but apart from that, he really hasn't been aggressively campaigning as much as his advisers had expected him to do. and i'm told that many people close to trump are actually surprised. he hasn't been hitting the ground more of course first, he is trying to campaign from inside the court itself, speaking to reporters every time he enters and exits the courtroom as we've been covering a very closely here, wealth alayna treene reporting for elena. thank you very much. neglect to aaron. she's just outside the courthouse in new york. aaron all right. >> well, if and so all in favor with me now and we now have if you've been watching on your screen, we have a new witness on the stand keith davidson is in the past we are force for the prosecution got guide douglas, i believe doug was dallas, did i okay. >> he is a high-tech expert. >> tell me what the strategy is and putting this person on the sand. >> so yes, he processes digital evidence in a unit called the high technology analysis units.

so you worked for the manhattan district attorney. look, we only have about an hour here in the strategy is that at some point they have to put mr. dowell's on to get some evidence in, get it really verified so we can be entered into evidence. and the reason we want to do this right now and not call another witness is because if you call hope hicks, kellyanne conway, karen google, the defense is gonna know when they're going to have all nika prepared. we know a little bit of it starting exactly. >> so they're going to put on these records custodians is how we refer to them, these sort of admitted the strait of moves with the prosecution has to make. >> that's how they tend to use these small blocks of time they have so they don't take their hands. the defense, but the water is also interesting here, which is false talk about this a lot, which is they could stipulate all of this technically, the defense had all this stuff in evidence which someone just say just took one together rally happened not the cspan. >> got you. >> i will always know, but every night. >> and what's been fascinating

about is for president who every day for 30 walks out of the courtroom and talks about how this trial and the fact that he stuck in this courtroom is keeping them off the campaign trail and he's running for president. alaina was just kinda detailing how that's all working this is making the trial longer that they have to have these witnesses come in and maybe not substantially longer, but it certainly adding some at least an hour to two this as this goes forward, i've been fascinated as to why they've decided to actually do that. yeah, it's not clear what the strategy is. i certainly ask them i have not gotten straight answer, but either is something to be gained from the defense to dragging this out, making it get boring. i mean, that is a defense strategy. i'm not saying it's the one that they are employing here, but yeah, there's no love lost between the prosecution and the defense, right? the prosecution could extend the kernel receipt of revealing who their witnesses are. they're not doing that and they say that they're not doing that because they're worried trump is going to tweet about them or attack them, tried to intimidate them. so the difference since it's frustrated about that, now, okay. it as a lawyer, can you say how normal it is not have to not be sharing that list

ahead of time. >> and then the second part part of that is if trump continues to obey the gag order yeah. by only malign the district attorney and the judge but not witnesses or the jury can they go back and say, hey, we now want to force this issue so that we do get a list of witnesses ahead. i think it's certainly something that todd could try. >> todd blanche, the defense attorney one could try and be like, hey, i just want to show there's been ten days or however many days without a violation of the gag order. we're trying to build some goodwill here. would you do as a courtesy? now they tried to do that just before the trial started and the judge did not make them, so they're not required to. and i'm not going to force them to share, but this is an extraordinary circumstance because you have someone with this unbelief people will bully pulpit who has used it at times to go after witnesses in this case and beyond just microcolonies also targeted stormy daniel's raised questions about the jury so again, there's a lot of ill-will between the defense and the prosecution was just gonna say, while we're not totally zeroed in as if it was keith davidson, david pecker does walking through how

office. and he's with the da's office. paul was saying processes, devices that are obtained via search warrant. again, if this is part in parcel to them, getting evidence and are getting specific exhibits into this trial. keep in mind one of the things that we don't have the best visibility into as much has been reported about this as much as paula and kara have broken about this from our team is we don't know every recording they have necessarily. we don't know every email or text message they have. and so what they have obtained as kind of explaining right now about the process and what role that will play as this trial continues to move forward is as prosecutors try and make their case will remain kind of the big outstanding questions to my mind, given so much reported i feel like, you know, so many different details about all this, so many that you've forgotten a lot of them that when we hear about to tequila or charlie sheen like, oh wow, okay. that was a different angle. this yellow isn't there? >> did not expect that today. did not charlie sheen lacteal, tequila, hawk, hogan. >> okay. of course so then when

the jury eventually they'll get a full transcript what if they want it. >> so they don't have to have it. i guess. i can ask for portions of it if they need to clarify. >> okay. and then they also get these audio clips, whether it be of a rally or the audio clip that was just played in the conversation between davidson and cohen? that's all just like separate that they can call upon to re-listen to at any point, i believe i can ask the judge sent to know when they're in deliberations to listen to something again or took you something again? me, too. yeah. to refresh their are you deliberations because it would take a long time, right? >> certainly as easy. what's what's in the moment so important now, two days later something else happens, don't want even remembers it, right? so you, are, going. to want that need, that all right. thanks to both. and we will keep following what's happening in the courtroom right now as i said, mr. dallas is still on the stand as we speak now and our special coverage will continue after this is the playoffs. >> great teammates trust each other. we're going to do a trust falls, stand up, trust what you see me up, doc told

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work more kliger by $20, get five back through may 31st close captioning brought to you by meso book.com if you or a, loved one have nice ophelie oma will send you a free book to answer questions you may have called now and we'll come to you 808 to one 4,000 welcome back to cnn special live coverage. >> a new witness has just emerged on the stand in new york. his name is douglas does and he works for the manhattan district attorney's office. let's discuss with our panel. we don't know much about them. what do we do know? well, what do we know? is that he is a custodian of records who works on digital information in the manhattan da's office. now you might be asking why would the da's office called someone from the da's office? there's a few reasons. so evidence in order to get into court, it's got to be admitted. now, the parties can agree. they can stipulate to let something in whether it's even that sheet of paper or whatever else it might be. they can agree if the

defense or the other side it does not, then prosecution has to get it in through a wetness. so number one, he may be just admitting evidence. >> also authenticating some of the evidence they have when you're when you're dealing with things like he's talking about how we analyze michael cohen cell phone so on you actually have to establish that this is michael cohen's cell phone that we know who reviewed it, who took a look at it. >> and so on. and what he's doing here with some of, some of this evidence is establishing that it is what he says it is, it's called authenticating. it i think the last thing is chain of custody this concept of when there is a piece of evidence, usually a witness has to come in and say, i know what the chain of custody was from the time it got out of the hands of the defendant or somebody else? it came to me. i put a sticker on it, then i put it in a locker than the day before we came to trial. i brought it here to court. that's pretty much establishing that this thing that we've talked about, each of the steps, it's taken and that no one's had a chance to

tell tamper with it. so these little people that'll testify for 30 minutes or a half, or an hour. it can actually be quite valuable for the purpose of getting evidence. we know that michael cohen had a bunch of cell phones and we know that they were taken from his office in an array and we know that he had a proclivity to tape conversations on it. >> we don't know which conversations necessarily, but i would think that this would be a trove of information for the prosecutor and there's a huge risk when you you're dealing with audio recordings and maybe even ones taken surreptitiously that someone doesn't know about. there's a huge during, particularly the age of ai and all that business, where did this video come from? well, you get a guy like this to be able to authenticate this video is what we say it's i also love that it is an iphone six s and an iphone seven, just reminders. we're dealing with something from six or seven years ago and those were the models at the time that now i thought that that would be just a reminder as so much of this testimony throughout the day has been

looking back in 2016, 2017, 2018, it's been quite some distance of times since these events happen that are being presented to the jury. oh, and you will hear that from the defense. >> why are we even prosecuting this case? that is still al that is years old. you're talking about tampering with an election that was years ago, this individual loss of the presidency years later. why does it even matter? and defense attorneys do think it's interesting what we do know about this. douglass does this new witness? who is just called to testify that he's he works as you pointed out in the manhattan district attorney's office in a unit called the high analysis unit. >> i mean, he's analyzing high technology from seven or eight years ago. and still, it is still important technology. but for all the reasons we've talked about and particularly the risks of how to, how electronic recordings might be degraded over time or tampered with. you really need a good witness like those to come in and establish. >> are you surprised david that

they've called this witness as opposed to someone perhaps a little bit more high profile. >> well, i don't think at the end of the de they're going to call a high-profile witness when they'd been keeping their cards. so close to the vest on who their witnesses are. so if you were to call someone at the end of the day and not get much in and provide the entire overnight hours to the defense to prepare in a way that perhaps they see it as an advantage not to give that much time to prepare that. that's one thing i do wonder though elliott, maybe, you know so much we've been saying is that this case is moving a pace. i'm not suggesting this guy is going to be on the stand for very long here. but how do we determine whether it is still keeping a pace? because if it is before too long, those high-profile witnesses are going to need to be called. >> we don't know the just certainly knows just because you have to start of trial, the judge would have the prosecutors would have signified how long they thought the proceedings were saying. well, we think we need eight or nine days for our primary case in chief or whatever else and they're checking in and these meetings that we're not

seeing, the sidebars and probably checking in as to where how much longer the testimony you'll go for. so i think the judge and probably both sides have a sense of where they are and how much more time i think the question is whether he'll finish today and so you have big testimony, dramatic testimony from davidson, followed by technical testimony just to stipulate it and get it in the record of somebody who analyzes metadata. and by the way, he also pointed out that one of the cell phones had a gold case and then when you work for donald trump might be michael and but it wasn't trump's phone, right. >> so when you worked yeah. yeah. and then so tomorrow you could have another another substantial witness. >> maybe. look i'm 3:43 p.m. eastern right now. maybe they go to four 30 perhaps they could wrap this witness up, have a short cross-examination and maybe and this is this would be moving quickly. another very small custodian

records from within the trump organization to talk about some of the documents or maybe the judge would let them wrapper early it really just depends on one how long this takes and what kind of mood the judges and at the end of the day and to david's question, are we moving along quickly enough? and can we just try to squeeze one more than the other side? stipulate? to these records you don't have to you're not obligated to. >> and what's the reason not to you make the prosecution put every piece? so the evidence that they have on the record themselves, that they care about this case so much make them argue their case, but enough for us why the defense lawyers keep trying to portray michael cohen as the driving force behind all of this. hush hush money deal and not necessarily trump if that point is made successfully, it's the whole ball game because it suggested that's that the defendant, the person who is on trial here, was not the driving force behind the criminal scheme. it might have just been a detached boss who had all these underlings beneath who were engaging all these shady and criminal dealings. if they

can successfully do that, they and you don't trump could probably yeah, i think we should point out that there's a text messages and one batch of them involved messages between michael cohen and hope hicks. and we know that hope hicks had a conversation about this with davidson, write about the the hush money. so maybe hope hicks will be than fix was a topic you trump in the white house. >> that's one and two. hope hicks was in and out of the room during a meeting between in michael cohen, david pecker from ami she was in and out session with michael cohen. was david pecker, and michael coe so i'm okay. august 2015. and so she she might have been texting about that or lunch plans. who knows what it might have been. but i heard everybody stick around. >> there's a lot more we need to watch and listen to as today's testimony in donald trump's hush money criminal trial continues. we'll be right

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908358 how it really happen with jesse l. martin, sunday's at nine on cnn we are back now as cnn special coverage of donald trump's view or criminal trial here in manhattan. i am a building behind me a lot of new details are coming in as douglas data house testifies, that's a new name pretty much for all of us. he works in the manhattan district attorney's office in a unit that processes digital evidence and he's talking in part about the process by which they acquired verified, and got the information off of michael cohen's phone, which is now so crucial. they're now taking into evidence text messages sent from that phone between my michael cohen and hope hicks, who we also anticipate may

testify in this trial. john dean is a senior, a cnn contributor and former nixon white house counsel. >> he also co-wrote the book for terrion nightmare trump and his followers. so john, i'm glad to see you so a couple of things today and i've been curious, everyone's interpretation of this when bragg has been quiet, he has not talked about the case. he has not been in the courtroom until this afternoon after keith davidson testimony, he is in the room what what what do you read into that is do you think good already planned to do that or did it have anything to do with his davidson's testimony i don't think it had to do directly with david. >> his testimony which actually went in very well overall, there were a couple of bumps, but there always are. and that makes you when is just the proceeding. so i letitia james, for example, the new york attorney general, she was in court every day and went to the microphones afterwards. bragg appears to have taken a very

different posture where he's not going to offer daily commentary of any kind nor appear in court every day he had feels it's in good hands with his prosecution team. so i don't i don't know specifically why he has showed up today but he's certainly making his presence known all right. >> i won't ask you have something else. just mentioned there because you said you thought keith davidson had some tough moments, but overall was a good wetness, i presume you're saying for the prosecution, i know there's been others who have said this was not a good witness for the prosecution the defense managed under cross to successfully make it look like davidson was possibly extorting, seizing the moment of the election the maximum and have leveraged before it's over to extort and get this money for his client and that he never interacted with trump himself, and that he never thought that cohen was doing this specifically under trump's direction. so that's the people who are saying that maybe this witness wasn't so good. but you see it a little bit differently. tell me why well, i think he got in some key points and explains a lot

that michael cohen will not be able to plus collaborates cone yes, it was something of a mud wrestling match. >> it points but everybody gets muddy when those kind of brawls. so i don't think that the necessarily the defense scored a lot of points where they came looking good as a result of what they had to do to try to mess up this witness. but we're not seeing the jury. unfortunately, and we don't know exactly how they're taking it, and there'll be 12 different personalities taking it differently. so we the collective judgment i think though will be that this was a witness had good information yeah. >> and it's interesting you talk about we can't see the jury and and certainly we can't. i was in the courtroom not today, but the last day they were in session. and i was fascinated john by their paying attention. they were uniformly and there were for some data expert, shall we say that testified then write that were

there for answering very mundane questions of what is your title, what is your and you could see how some but he couldn't of lose concentration. the jury hasn't. so when i see on the screen now, the jury is paying attention to the interaction between a metadata analysts for the deal the a's office, and the prosecutor asking the questions it seems pretty impressive to me. do you see it that way yes, i do it's a highly intelligent jury. >> they know the importance of the case. their city on and they're going to give it their old. this is probably a moment in their life that will be unmatched and it's its notoriety, if you will. so i think this is a weld intentioned jury and we'll get a good result from it they certainly seemed i will say well-intentioned and engaged and none of them were making faces or anything that would indicate what they thought about it. >> certainly taking it with great seriousness john de thank you very much. and please stay

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special coverage of donald trump's criminal trial is the first ever of a form former president that we are watching. >> history wolfe together, and we've been following these updates to the afternoon right now. jurors are being shown a batch of text messages, including some between trump's one former attorney, michael cohen, and trump's campaign aide at the time, who picks wolfe. >> erin earlier today, both sides took turns questioning a former attorney for the adult film star stormy daniels named keith davidson. davidson helped facilitate the deal to sell daniel story of affair with trump and said he understood that suppressing it would quote, help trump's campaign. trump's defense team, i'll ever tried to paint davidson as an unethical lawyer who works with unsavory characters at portrayed the deal as more of a shakedown. today's testimony isn't just over yet. you can catch me later today two hours in situation room 6:00 p.m. eastern. don't forget to watch erin burnett outfront 7:00 p.m.