up as a new vip. >> i'm elizabeth wagmeister in los angeles. >> in this is cnn glows captioning brought to you by, feel away, optimum enhanced calming for cats. >> if your cat springs outside the litter box, fights with other cats were scratches the furniture, they could be telling you they're stressed to help them feel more calm, try feel away. >> optimum always very happy about the way things ago projecting some confidence in de ten of his criminal trial. >> is it the classic donald trump's spin or his he may be onto something, but went to a specialist there should have lara codes live alongside abby phillip right here in new york and just hours from now, abby donald trump will face his the de on trial for falsifying

it's a cover up, a sex scandal. here you see him across the two weeks and he has now spent listening to testimony inside that cold 15th floor manhattan courtroom from an in-between the whispers to his lawyers and the note passing and the closing of his eyes the jury is starting to see and hear testimony stranding a very key question just how involved was donald trump in the payouts too quiet damaging stories from stormy daniel's, from karen mcdougal before the 2016 election process? secures pulled out the receipts today in the form of phone calls and cohen had secretly recorded in one of those calls, cohen is heard at telling stormy's former lawyer, keith davidson that trump was upset with the stormy daniel's deal what about me? >> and i can't even tell you how many times he said to me, you know, i hate the fact that we did it and my comment to him was but every person that you've spoken to told you it

was the right move now all of that came after what has been described as a bruising cross-examination of keith davidson, the defense tried to torpedo his credibility in front of the jury by going full team practically bringing up his alleged cash for dirt deals that were tied to a number of celebrity scandals. >> trump's lawyer questions davidson about if he had helped a client get paid for leaking information about lindsay low hands rehab stunt i don't recall. davidson said he was also asked if he brokered a deal of a sex tape involving a reality star tailored tequila i believe so davidson said davidson was also asked if he was investigated by law enforcement in connection with the hulk hogan sex tape? that's true. he's about though he denied extorting anyone. >> and then there was a course, the question of whether he had extracted that was the phrase extracted ms of money from charlie sheen and from the transcript question, do you

remember mr. xin paying your client, capri anderson? >> answer, i'm not going to discuss that. well, we are back here with our pound to discuss are we're talking about all of it. i got. hot tea for that purpose and joining us this hour, hugo lol, a political investigations reporter with the guardian. he was actually in court today and devlin barrett, a law enforcement reporter with the washington post, and he too was in the courtroom. let's begin with what happened today. i got to know when you were inside that court devlin, what was the atmosphere leg was trump thinking, does his body not about the climate, not the temperature i got. what was it like? really hot in terms of him thinking, wait, this is hurting, this prosecution. >> it got state court hot. >> so once it's warmed up outside, so the court has is now war. the courtroom is now warm didn't love that personally, but there was also a lot of friction as you talked about between emil bove, the trump lawyer, and keith

davidson. keith davidson? it's the beauty of cross-examination , right? on direct keith davidson being questioned by the prosecutor is very calm, very very cool, little funny on cross when trump's lawyers are asking him combative argumentative he and the aaa really went at each other a couple of times over this question of extortion obviously, the lawyers arguing i didn't extort but anybody have never extorted anyone trump layer also suggested he had threatened people which he denied. and i think trump's team scored some points today in the sense that they made this whole world look dirty and sleazy, and that trump was in some ways in the trump characterization, a celebrity victim of these shakedowns but i'll be honest, even if the jury believes that i don't know how that ultimately matters for the verdict here because stormy daniel's and keith davidson didn't fill out trump's accounting books? >> no. yeah. yeah, it's not the actual is on the actual payment, but here's the thing that i am not understanding my understanding is that an

opening statement the judge sustained an objection on these of that word, extortion. so why allow a whole line of questioning about extortion in the cross-examination. i don't understand. >> i think in part, if you could talk about this, i think part of the reason is in the opening statements, everything a lawyer says is not evidence in the case it only has to come in through the testimony of a witness. and so if you're opening that door through the actual question of somebody and they are their testifying about that's different than just throwing out there. this person is that but i don't really interesting as well, abby, this one part i'd love to hear from you on this because as evans describing it what a different scenario to go at this sleaze factor of a keith davidson as opposed to the david pecker was to look at qualitatively was different when they were attempting at least to talk about the national enquirer they didn't seem to go that level with the cross for him what was the difference that you saw? >> yeah. i think the cross was

bizarre in a way because the right thing for ammo beauvais to do was probably to say, did you have any interactions with trump? no. did you did you have any interactions with trump in the white house before when he was a candidate or in any way. and that really didn't come up at all when really focused on i'm painting keith davidson as a sleaze bag and i think to devlin's point, like it was clear that everyone thought that yeah, keith davidson is a sleaze bag and yet we still get to the point that even if that's true, the money was paid the books are allegedly falsified. and so it doesn't really matter from a legal perspective whether keith davidson as a sleaze bag, and i wonder if that was the approach ricky david him because i didn't really have anything else to go off. >> so david pecker. so here was the rationale as to why it as to whether it worked or not. >> that's an open question. i think the rationale hello of a sleazebags is we have this thing called an election and we have this lawyer who wants to leveraged based upon what they're doing and how they actually go about their business leverage you and

they're trying to make the proximity of your payment is close to what's important to you, right? as possible. so from a prosecutors perspective, right? the prosecutor obviously wants the election to matter. it has to matter with regard to tying this whole thing in. but if you're the defense attorney i'm not the one trump's not the one concerned about the election. >> the lawyers can turn too bad because he's leveraging him and he's trying to get the most out of him like he does all the rest. >> if his clients and that's what makes them, please e. that's the argument they're going to make by flipping this whole election question. remember the elephant in the room, the elephant in the room as you get the felony, if you can tie in that he was trying to do this, that is trump for purposes of the election benefit. if you spin it to make it the attorney who's worried about the election because he now payment extract maximum payment. that's why the whole sleaze factor. can you, jennifer i am i'm curious. >> i mean, do you buy the idea that this being characterizes

an extortion can negate the criminal aspect of it, which is not that there was money paid, but rather that trump tried to conceal it. for the purposes of concealing an election-related payment that he would have had to otherwise disclose? >> yeah. no, it doesn't. i mean, it makes him more sympathetic. i mean, i think if they could convince the jury that this was a false allegation stormy daniels really was just this opportunistic person who saw this chance to get some money out of someone they would be less inclined to find that he had the intent maybe, but it doesn't really technically undercut any of the elements of the offense. and also it's not the case. i think by the end of this trial, we will know full well that that encounter did happen, and then everyone trump and all of his coconspirators are all talking about the election as the reason why she had to be paid off and it had to be hidden. what lean into it a little more. >> i'm curious about the idea of him being sympathetic and i think people might think instantly well are you

suggesting that there would be a time when a juror would have the information they'd meet their burden of proof and they essentially nullify it. they say, look, i that's all true. i feel bad for the guy. >> i think jurors do all sorts of stuff in the jury room. i mean, nullification is a real thing. defense lawyers do everything they can to get just one of those people to find something in there heads, that causes them to say, i'm not going to do this. it's a black box. we rarely dig in at all to what happens in there. so yeah, i think they're going for anything and look, there's one way this strategy can work like i think we're all in agreement, like stormy daniels didn't cook the books here like that's not going to help him, but here's the way it could work and i've seen it work in other trials sometimes if the defense can show that every government witness is basically a terrible person. and what you've basically got as a whole group, a terrible people pointing the finger at someone else. sometimes the jury basically says we wash our hands of this whole thing. these are awful people. i've seen it in drug cases. i've seen it in some violent crime cases. if the defense has has one chance here is to try to

convince the jury that all these people that the government have lined up to point the finger at trump are themselves awful and therefore not working it's not really get engaged in a conspiracy. they're engaged in motivations for their own personal benefit with their own agendas. and again, you know, you don't have to be successful in persuading all of the jurors that that's the case. all you really have to do is persuade enough of the jurors or perhaps even just one juror that there's reasonable doubt about whether or not the government's theory and narrative that there's say conspiracy as jennifer suggests, that holds all this together where they're all acting in concert toward a common objective to influence the outcome of an election and the defense presentation is in closing arguments. listen, that's not really what's going on here. you saw all these witness and you saw what they were bad and you saw where all their agendas were this wasn't a conspiracy that coheres these people were all out to take advantage of the situation manager. the fact that there wasn't election, they weren't

doing it to influence the election. they didn't give a one way or another what the outcome of the election was, what they were after was their own personal way. but i want to play for you though because there was this moment where the defense was trying to pay michael cohen as what we know is going to be a big witness in this case as somebody who's motivation was, it might be revenged pure and simple revenge over not getting a job at the white house. >> this is from davidson and the courts transcript describing a call with michael cohen it says he said something to the effect of jesus christ. can you get can you effing believe i'm not going to washington after everything i've done for that f and guy, i can't believe i'm not going to washington. i save that guys asked so many times. you don't even know this idea of the motivation, not just in terms of why to act in the first instance, missile graduates some things that the jury has heard about michael cohen. this is not paint the most favorable picture, abby, about this particular witness, but to your point robert, it's no longer maybe the motivation about why

to pay, but maybe the motivation of why to testify. >> well, sure. i mean, i look i don't want to overstate that either. i mean, he, michael cohen suffers a disease and a lot of people suffer from around political campaigns. and that is delusions of grandeur. they think as a result of helping the candidate all of a sudden they're qualified to be attorney general. the united states, very few people are qualified to be attorney general of the united states. michael cohen is not one of them. okay. so that's just the reality. >> nevertheless, it you'd know you raised the specter of any number of reasons why people are disgruntled or have their own agendas and the jury re-evaluates all of that with with with common sense. >> i don't know that that's necessarily going to be dispositive. i mean, that's just a factor for them to consider i mean, overall that's why a trial goes on for a number of days. we're only in day ten. there are good days and bad days and the jury is going to evaluate all of this together as a meaningful hold are not going to focus on one days of testimony about whether or not emil bove was

outstanding and cross-examinati on about beating somebody up, about the unseemly nature of hollywood and how people extract payments from the jury doing at that point in time, were they? wait smirking with a laughing where there's a straight spine, what was going on so admittedly devin and i were both in the overflow room for you. >> i wanted to well, i appreciate your honesty and candor the ground. everyone. >> donald trump, once again shifts his tune on whether or not he'll testify and up next, the new excuse. >> he's presenting. that's not at all accurate. >> plus the relatively unusual gag order request, his team made. >> the judge consider yeah. >> introducing ned's flexor is he thinks is flaky red patches are all people see. >> oh, tesla is the number one prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. oh, tesla can help you get clear. don't use a

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those who are still with us, yes. grandpa! what's this? your wings. light 'em up! gentlemen, it's a beautiful... ...day to fly. free shipping anywhere nationwide? >> how we'd really happy with jesse l. martin, sunday's at nine on cnn well, donald trump was complaining today about the gag order and yet again, making a false claim about what he's allowed or maybe not allowed to do well, i'm not allowed to test if i am under again, my dad i can testify know we're going to be appealing the games

now, the gag order does not stop it from testifying on if you saw the attorney who was like i don't know what that was was at something and just last week, trump said that he would testify, quote, if necessary. >> and today, prosecutors argued that trump violated the gag order four more times by making false claims about the jury and attacking witnesses what are they going to look at all the lives that gone in the last drought? >> that line, then the last trial so he got caught lying pure lime that uri was pick so fast, 95% democrats. do you think of it as just a purely democrat area? it's severe very unfair situation. michael cohen is a convicted liar and he's got no credibility whatsoever pecker's testimony so far it's been very nice and he's been david's been very nice and nice guy now, judge merchan has already found that trump violated the gag order nine times. these online posts

find trump about nine grand and the judge even threatened jail but prosecutors say they only want trump want to find trump. they don't even want to put jail on the table here for him, our panel is back with us at the end of the day. the one violation you guys have all heard me with beispiel now, the one violation that matters at this point is probably the one about the jury. and that's actually the one that the judge highlighted and basically said why does he talk about the jury? and i think that is really the question here at that point. i think the judge has to make a decision about whether or not that and things like that really crossed line. and it seems like you probably will. >> yeah. i think they all matter hey, being all violations if the judge finds violations of the gag order. right? the gag order has a very important place and i really believe this, it's about the safety of people and those people need to be protected because if you're spinning a narrative, right? and the

narrative is not true, or what have you. i just think that people could really be in danger. and so i are they endanger as a result of the fact that 95% of them are democrats. >> i just made the issue is can we be like exercise some common sense here? >> his audience is not the jury. >> okay. i mean, let's just wake up to reality. donald trump's audience with regard to the gag order, is the electorate guys it hits not the jury, so we got here's the issue. >> i mean, that's what the 90s, the electorate, democrats. >> okay. go ahead. first of all, donald trump is not sitting there googling and trying to figure out where, where are these people fall at the ideological spectrum. he is trying to basically paint them with a broad brush and you're right, the audience is not the jury the audiences for supporters who we know have a history of threatening people. so that actually is because i just respond to that though, when you say no, he cares about only one thing which is, how are people going to vote in november? he's not interested in trying to influence the

jury, doesn't matter where patients as a result of his activities, are you thinking mad at the motivates you think it's threatening people to identify them as 95%. what i think, no, mostly if it's true, let me tell you what i think. let me tell you what i think what i think is if you start talking about a jury and you start coloring people's opinion about the jury being unfair and you have a jury that ultimately reaches a verb verdict that's unfavorable and you have someone on the jury who is outed. that person is in danger. you follow that logic. so what that means to me is that if you're making broad sweeping references to a jury and people make the connection of who's on that jury. they're going through great pains of not showing who that jury is. they're not identified why why? because in the event that people find out they could be consequences as to what they say and what they do, why? because they could be intimidated with respect to their verdict. so unlike you, i do believe when you make broad references to a jury that matters because it's yours, have families you could disagree. i just yours have

families. jurors i really like erin body off has the right to be protected. and in the event that their life is in danger, because you're making ridiculous claims about them. that to me is problematic but here, we don't have to stretch to understand the predicate for this. in georgia, trump decided that he was going to say the two election workers we're democrats that they were rigging the election. he just said it and the threats came. >> they had to move. they they lost. they said they lost the ability to use their names. so if you're two abbey, a juror initially did say, i don't want to be on this. he was the person was already empaneled all right. and there was asked to be taken off because they were afraid their anonymity had been compromised, which could maybe lead to public safety concerns that you should look generally speaking, i don't think it's wise to be commenting about the jurors and no matter who you are and during wireless show, he's comment nonsense and then the

during the, during the pendency of a truck, i think it's nonsense let's to think that identifying jurors is 95% democrats, as i don't find that to be threatening, i was just one of the sentences though context also included the idea that was very mass. it was a very unfair process i don't find any do you find any of that threatening on a finding of that? so i do because what happens is then it takes out the notion that a jury is there, selected by both parties, by the way, in a jury selection process, you have both parties that's the prosecution and the defense. yes. in new york, particularly, there's white practice for a long time. what we do, it's fair, believe it or not, that fans has an opportunity to the witnesses. the prosecution does to this two types of challenges wanted for cause and if it's for cause, because you can't be fair, you're excluded. the others peremptory, which is totally your discretion. but at the end of the day, the reason it matters is because it throws away the faith in the system. if people have the notion that they weren't listening to evidence, they just weren't democrats and liberals who just decided they hate trump then again, it goes back to danger. it goes back to intimidation.

it goes back to the issue of people who can be harmed, and that's why to me it may be nonsense to you, but to me i really believe it's important and that's why the gag order is limited to people like juris like witnesses. unlike other people who could be in danger based upon a bully pulpit of 70 million people has met jack. okay. there you go anywhere other words, de remember the judge didn't say that wimbledon that just now i was like this. >> i mean, the bob was bobbin. but there was a moment in time. the judge questioned if their order was not on ambiguous not to talk about a jury, then they need to even go to the next sentence of what you said about the jury. yeah. >> exactly. and i think that that is it's not that broad. i mean, he could talk about a lot of other things and he can talk about the case. you just cannot talk about the jury at about the witnesses and he keeps doing it, or at least he had been doing it until he was last find $9,000. so we will see if that stands. everyone standby

for us up ahead. he did it in 2016. he did it again in 2020 and now trump is once again casting doubt on whether he will accept the 2024 election results. colorado secretary of state is here with us to react. that starts cnn this morning with kasie hunt tomorrow at five easter when you're the leader is actually clean up and rest how do you make like it never even happened happens brandy whatever comes your way there's a pro for that. serve grow like never even happened. let's get started though where's your mask? >> i really tried sleeping with it. everybody now i sleep with

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to ship station.com slash, try and get the two months free when the genes came out, i thought, oh, my god when bob has a friend, he expects blind loyalty ravid surprises five there is some consistency when it comes to donald trump and it's about one thing accepting the outcome of the election only when it suits him. >> here he is back in 2016 do you make the same tibet until you will? >> absolutely, sir. that you

will absolutely accept the result of this election. i will look at it at the time. i'm not looking at anything now. i look at it at the time so what happened when he was asked, yet again, well, four years later here can you give a direct answer? >> you will accept the electrons. >> does she look, i have to say no, i'm not going to just say yes. >> news he did not accept the results of that election, which brings us to today. will 2024 be any different? well, you might have guessed at trump is telling the milwaukee sentinel journal, quote, if everything's honest, i'll gladly accept the results. if it's not, you have to fight for the right of the country now as for president biden, he does pledge to accept the will of the voters in november, joining me now, is colorado secretary of state can occur as well. she supported the effort to remove donald trump from the state's 2024 ballot, which the supreme court ultimately rejected. secretary griswold. thanks for joining us tonight.

i wonder what your reaction is to donald trump's repeated denial that he will accept the results of the election, even if he loses well, thanks for having me on this evening and unfortunately, donald trump continues to be a tremendous threat to american democracy in 2020, he laid the groundwork to allege that the election was stolen from him in the event of a loss? that's exactly what he is doing. again, we know what happened in 2020. >> his lies led to threats against election workers lawsuits filed all across the country to try to steal the election. and then ultimately he incited the insurrection i think a big difference between then and now as he's been pushing out his big live for the last four years he's creating a toxic and dangerous situation. but just like in 2020, american democracy

survived and i am very optimistic that we're going to get through whatever donald trump tries to pull this it's election cycle also it's interesting. >> we've been discussing at length the hush money trial in new york and there's a new cnn poll that indicates a growing number of americans say that even if the charges across all of the trump criminal trials are true, but they don't think it's relevant for the fitness for the presidency that includes the effort to overturn the 2020 election so why do you think that we're seeing that reaction from the electorate even as all of this legal troubles looms over, donald trump first off, i would say one of your panelists from the last segment, robert ray is so far off in his understanding, at least what he says donald trump's words lead to, you

know, donald trump talking about a jury is really problematic as a defendant in the case to try to disqualify donald trump i received over 800 violent threats or death threats donald trump knows exactly what he does or what he is doing, excuse me. >> anybody who stands up against him or puts up some type of barrier he starts talking about them in the threats role in but ultimately when it comes to all of these indictments, when it comes to what happened then all the felony charges against him, donald trump and allies are trying to rewrite history. that's what the big lie is about. that's what all their lives are about. and it's not just donald trump. the speaker of the house, is an election denier. he just announced some just cockamamie scheme of other week trying to undermine elections. >> there are 172 election deniers walking the halls of

congress in their lives do matter because they affect election administration. >> but they also eventually erode confidence so that not everybody understands what is fact and what is total we made up by the far right with that said, abby, again, i do think americans are good people. they believe in fairness and i do think there will be an effect of the attempted stealing of the 2020 election and all the other things that have happened since then on the 2024 presidential election secretary griswold, we just had a lengthy debate about what you were talking about as a result, as it pertains to the threat factor, robert ray is actually still with us. >> i just want to give him a second to respond, if you will, to let the secretary said i think the reason that the poll numbers are reflecting what they're what they are reflecting is that first, ms griswold efforts to try to interfere with an election by removing a candidate from

office by virtue of taking that candidate off the ballot was unprecedented. >> that didn't go over well, at the supreme court where it lost unanimously nine to nothing, which suggests that it was an effort that should never have been engaged in, in, in the first place. with regard to the case, i think the electorate well, hold on a second let's let's just take a step back. >> we're talking about election lies and what you just said isn't election lie it wasn't allies at the supreme court ruled nine to nothing that it was an improper exercise of state power to remove a candidate from the ballot. >> robert lins, that's a pretty extraordinary clinician the election lie was that you said that i brought this effort to remove donald trump. >> i was a defendant and just like that jury pool is judged is sitting there to look at the facts. and judge, they didn't raise their hand. they didn't try to do anything to impede the former president they earn

a very similar situation. so i would ask you stop lying please learn the facts because all these lies actually do matter. >> colorado secretary of state jareh, as well. thanks for joining us. we appreciate you having a little back-and-forth there with robert ray. thank you both very much. and our panel is back with us here in new york, including cnn, political commentators anna navarro, jamal simmons robert, thank you for we wanted to give you an opportunity to respond since she brought your name into the conversation. but what she's saying about donald trump and the threat he poses, going forward, i think is looming over all of this because he keeps talking about what he's gonna do and what he's not going to do and principal among them is whether or not he's going to be willing to just do what all the other presidents have done and accept the results of the election he's loading forebear for this

election not to work out. here's what we know. the rnc as we the rnc had 38 community accent centers where they were supposed to be reaching out to minority communities around the country. they've reduced that number to seven you know what they've done instead, they've increased to 15. the number of election integrity offices that are meant to monitor the quote-unquote, monitor the vote in certain states, and then collect evidence for post-election litigation. they're not planning and win at the ballot bucks they're planning to fight this thing in the courts. and then ultimately probably in the congress and do what they did on january 6, but with more success we. >> already know that donald trump is emotionally psychologically physically incapable of admitting defeat is just, it's, it's not in him, right? he's not you were talking about every other president. he's not like every other president. >> he's he's got a

differently moles i shall makeup. >> i'm not a psychologist. i'm not a psychologist. i'm not going to diagnose him but as a lay person, this man cannot admit defeat. he's now almost four years into joe biden. he's still can't admit that he lost to joe biden. he never will. he won't admit it in 2020. and if he loses again in 2024, he wanted admitted then the question really is the consequences his tombstone is going to say, i want well, i'm in the consequence of it is a question about how people view the fairness and also the strength of our system it's a democracy. if you can keep it. >> and if you have somebody that a republic, if you can keep it, if you have somebody at the highest level of the land really who doesn't think we actually or doesn't want people to believe we have fair and free elections it doesn't bode well for those who are carrying out the everyday dues that we need so badly to actually have our democracy work. >> but it's the idea of the consistency not only in court, but also what's happening on

the campaign trail. there's there's connective tissue there, right? he doesn't want to admit that the system is fair and let us he can point to a result where he wins i think that's right. >> and i think it's evident on the campaign trail when he talks about two tiered systems of justice. and it's not like that at all. and he's claim that action all of his criminal cases, whether it's federal and state and local, whatever i mean, in this case, which is not being which has been brought by manhattan district 20, which is not part of the justice upon which is not pilot biden administration and he's still trying to say that there are two tiers of justice and that then they're not prosecuting hunter biden or they're not prosecuting president biden, but they're indicting me. they're indicting me on these carts by documents cases, for instance. right. and it just doesn't follow it doesn't fall on the logic that he's being a local da in manhattan is prosecuting are under the biden administration's agenda. that doesn't follow the fact that he's being treated the same dream differently from any other come on, defendant in any of these criminal cases for the classified documents case, if those any other defendant who

acted in the way that trump had hoarding classified documents? at his resort. >> they will be prosecuted and for him to claim that he is being treated unfairly. >> just doesn't pass joe biden and his garage. >> know suppressant. well counsel? robert hur, addressed this issue and part and did talk the bad as have others talked about the distinction. and that it was the intent to double down and maintain them when asked for them back as well. but one interprets i can taking a job biden frehse, united states on the response to the protests, a universities in particular jamal, because it's when you're not the person in the oval office you can take a more reactive and condemning role, then you can, if you're the person who must do something in response and trump has certainly been a critical of biden's response or lack thereof, i want to play for you because it's just hours after officers in riot gear arrested more than 200 protesters ucla, this is what happening across the country biden did condemn the violence and the antisemitism, but has

erupted. listen to what he had to say trespassing, breaking windows, shutting down campus is forcing the cancellation of classes and graduations none of this is a peaceful protest is essential to democracy. >> but to sent must never lead to disorder forced you to reconsider of the policies and our to the region? no jamaal. >> what did you make of that message? was it forceful enough? >> did it meet the moment i thought it was forcible? >> i thought it met the moment, but here's the here's the thing. >> we as a society have to really wrap our minds around policing the unlawful. >> but protecting the unpopular right. we gotta have a system where these kids can come out and say things that we may not like to hear, but they have a right to do them. they do not have a right, however, to break the law. and i think they have they know that when every civil rights movement of our past has broken the law they face consequences. the consequences has to come, but we do have to

make sure that what we're doing is not overreacting to the point where we're stopping people from being able to have a lawful conversation that we may find distasteful it seems like what's underneath the surface here? >> is, and some people have said this i some lawmakers have said this. if this were about black students being confronted with hate speech on their campuses, the reaction would be different. maybe from these very students who are on campus on the lawns. so it almost feels like there's a desire to see an even handedness in the reaction, not, not from a legal perspective, but from a normative perspective of what's acceptable on our college campuses and because that's not happening, that's why we're seeing so much disappointment. i it seems from people that maybe we don't like what these students have to say. but in another context,

even if we didn't like it, even if it's not illegal, there would be a lot of pressure to shut it down look i think i think that disappointment comes from everybody in america, frankly, understanding just how difficult a conflict this is. >> it's a conflict that far proceeds this the question of how does it help advance the solution in the region to have pro-palestinian and pro israeli kids coming to blows on university campuses. >> and part of my disappointment, frankly is that we are paying so much attention and rightly so focusing on what's happening in these university campuses we're not talking about the hundred and 29, 129 hostages that are still being held by hamas. >> hopefully alive. and we're not talking about the things that frankly the biden administration is doing right

now tony blinken is in the region right now. now trying to negotiate this deal. and i i think the disappointment is for many reasons, while still balancing this issue of i recognize they have a right to protest. i recognize they have a right to freedom of speech, but how is it helping? >> the overall goal? >> we all want, which is coexistence, peaceful coexistence here. >> and there. >> i am just a dumb cop reporter, but i will tell you as a father what is most striking to me about this issue? is that for many, many young people in america, this is a very clear cut issue. >> and what you're talking about the complexity that dynamic, they do not see that. >> they see a very clear cut moral problem this country is contributing to and i'm not saying who has to make, who make anyone else agree with anyone else. i'm saying it seems very clear to me just as

i have gone through the city in the last two weeks, that there was a huge generational gap here and young people see this very, very, i don't, i don't, i don't think we should paint too broad of a brush here. there are a lot of young people who are not on university campuses and there are a lot of young jewish people who also see the issue as less clear cut, right? and i think that that is part of the dynamic as well. that's that's what that is why we are seeing these divisions. but what else is obvious that we also have to remember, there are people in the world who wants to. >> maybe they have opinion one way or the other? or were they really want is to have americans at each other's throats. because the more we're fighting each other, the less we're able to do the things around the world that we need to do. and i think that there are actors in the world who are fomenting this and making sure that we are all torqued up to 11 as big as we combat this young people in america are supporting anti semitism and are supporting terrorists than

we've got a problem with young people in america. >> i didn't say that. i don't, i don't think i don't think that i actually don't think i hope that's not true. i don't why the bulk got what you see being said is disturbing, which is why i think a lot of americans have a real problem with that. >> there's a part from the violence probably are minority that is at play here. >> certainly. but a minority agitators and others probably driving some of that. but i don't think you can. again, let's open with broad brush gave me i think one thing is clear and this is not a problem so that everyone's moral compass is not point in the same direction, period standby everyone, you've got questions about the big development and the trump hush money trial. what we've got answers for you, we're going to take your live call some questions. next

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you believe we now have ten days of the hush money trial already in the books and with all the twists, the turns, and salacious developments, the questions. >> well, there are mounting and tonight we're taking your calls we've got the panel here to help answer them as well. if you want to participate, just go to cnn.com slash trump trial questions, fill out the form, typing your question there, and then we'll reach out to have you call in as the trial unfolds. get to our first color tonight. >> put a geiger got norman from stock bridge georgia. >> norman, what's your question? >> hi, laura. >> this trove hi, mr. are continuous for weeks. do you think the jury over time will become desensitized to trump spain and began to seem as an everyday citizen. and so would that be to his benefit or detriment? >> that's a great question. i see you not enjoy. and jennifer, what's going on? i think it's a great question and i do think that the more than trial goes on, the more he is a defendant in the case, the more the jury sees the facts, the more they assess whether the facts find him guilty or

not so much. >> and so that's my answer to you. call it. >> you re agree. well, when they first walked in, a lot of the jurors who didn't make it under the jury would say, oh, we walked in and we were so stunned no. my gosh, there's a precedent, but now they see them every day, all day. everybody is yana since stretching and so on. he's becomes a normal person. said devlin, you've been in there or is it wearing off? it is wearing off. there was a celebrity shock factor when they first came in. i think what's interesting now is first of all, just juries, very like jury duty is are amateur. occupation is not a profession, but they are incredibly professional and how they behave in there and so they walk past him every time they leave the room, they walk right past them and they're four or five feet away from him and he's fairly stoic and they by enlarge do not make eye contact with him. i think some people try to over-interpret that. what it means. i take it mostly as the jurors being careful and i think you cannot spend that much time in a room with another human being and not see them as more of a human being. i think that's true. but at the same time, he still carries

all the trappings of a former president. the secret services there. so it's never going to go away completely good point. >> let's go to erin from lakeland, florida. aaron, what's your question yes. >> good evening. i would like to know whether the charge for which trump is standing trial is typically one that is prosecuted with some modicum of regularity in other words, is trump being tried on an obscure law that is rarely prosecuted such that he can try to stay later that he's being singled out rabbit ray is champing at the bit to answer this question, robert, right? >> what's your response? i think it's complicated to answer that on the one hand, the books and records aspect of the law is fairly regularly prosecuted. >> so i don't think that anybody could really seriously make the argument that he's being singled out for prosecution of something that no one else would be prosecuted for on the other hand, this case is a little unusual, i think as most commentators have

recognized, on both the left and the right that the application of the statute in order to enhance it into a felony is an unusual application of this law. it is one that i caused. i think cy vance, who had the office before the current district attorney gave him pause i think they're acting that's a novel application here. i wouldn't say it's ever happened before, but it is an unusual applications. so i think on that aspect of it, i do think to answer the caller's question donald trump does have an argument that that that's one where ordinary prosecutions, an ordinary prosecutors, but probably not bring that charge. >> good point, jerry, in palm harbor, florida. you got a question. hi, jerry. >> hi laura, hey, can trump lawyers be held for sanctions and retribution for not controlling their client in the gag order.

>> o the defense counsel, joey jackson, just started laughing. are you nervous i'm nervous because the attorneys do not get the brunt of the frustration based upon what your clients do. >> and so a great question by the color, but you have to be careful the attorneys you can see when they're answering the question to the judge, even the judge's saying you're losing credibility with me because really they're doing the best to defend an indefensible positions. so the attorneys are held harmless. you control your client and to the extent that you can, but you cannot be sanctioned or put in jail for behavior that is not yours, but their reputation in front of that, judge, maybe as far as the issue. thank you. to the panel to help let's bring all these questions and hey, thanks everyone who also called in, you have a question like us to answer on the trump trial, we'd love to hear from you. just submit submit your questions at cnn flash trump trial questions. and thank you all for watching. >> our coverage continues with anderson cooper 360. that's next now they're shooting

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