want to write about the fall of the third republic, but i wanted to last. yeah thank you. well, thank you so manisha sinha and for this terrific converse session, let's all thank them so much for this. so i really appreciate the opportunity today to give, i guess, my first talk on this

brand new book. i had some conversation and now i'm speaking to you directly and i hope you enjoy it because we're the children and grandchildren of immigrants and i'm the grandchildren of immigrants, and it's a story that many americans share. even if we approach it now from from different points of view. and if we were speaking at our old headquarters of fort lesley mcnair, i would have a perfect hyper local introduction to this topic. that's because, i mean, your former meeting site, as you all know, is the site of the execution of the lincoln conspirators. but remember, one of them was a german immigrant, george axelrod. all of them were hanged under the supervision of the son of german immigrants. and the grisly result was photographed by an immigrant from scotland, alexander

gardener, spare it by fate it might be added, was the leader of the gang john wilkes booth who was killed by a trigger happy british immigrant boston corbett, under the command of an irish born captain. so this is just part of the story that you see continually appearing in the civil war era, because among his many other legacies, lincoln left us an amazingly diverse and inclusive america. in 1865, although it didn't become so without some violent pushback and resistance, admittedly. but in the end, nearly a quarter of and i can't believe i wrote the union army on ed bars day a quarter of the federal army spoke with a foreign accent official washington this town saw civil war diversity

firsthand for first time in april 1861, when the 69th new york infantry under irish born colonel michael corcoran arrived here and set up camp on arlington heights. lincoln and william seward visited the right here in this town when the 37 new york, the so-called irish rifles encamped at the capitol building, lincoln paid another visit. and while when general louis blanquer paraded on the white house grounds with the 6/8 new york, the so-called german rifles, general scott said to lincoln that this was the best regiment in the army. just a coincidence that i chose only new york regiments. so you'll have to forgive me. one recruiting poster in my hometown, new york, had declared berger all your land is gafah zewde and wafa citizen.

your land is in danger. your land, meaning the united states to arms and to arms. these foreign born citizens went. it didn't matter to the volunteers, to the commander in chief, to anybody. it seems that army regulations at this time required all soldiers to speak english. the united states needed them just as they had. the immigrants had once needed the united states. and so while the union was about 14% foreign born, its armed services grew to 23% foreign born, 200,000 germans, 150,000 irish plus hungarians, italians, swiss, swedes, englishmen, willing, patriotic targets for aggressive union recruiting and a truly became lincoln's foreign legion.

now this sudden enthusiasm for, emigration from the government reversed admittedly years of end of indifference in some quarters, intolerance in and other quarters. and it's obvious why in war, manpower needs over come aversion to foreigners. but this is a lincoln group as well as a roundtable so let's first explore lincoln's political and personal evolution on immigration and then we can talk about the multi-ethnic civil war, armed forces. and like everything else about lincoln, it's complicated. remember, and this is important. and i stress it in the book, america's occasional intolerance for voluntary european existed a historic tradition of

acceptance. until 1808 of the forced emigration of africans to a land where supposedly all men were created equal. and keep in mind, to that 19th century immigration did not include latinos or after a brief interlude, most chinese immigrants. and that enthusiasm in some quarters for immigration, those who did enthuse about it existed alongside a kind of ironic support for the forced removal and containment of individual nice people whose lands were soon west, whose one time lines would eventually be offered to the foreign born for free as part of the homestead act that lincoln expanded to embrace immigrants as well as american citizens. so i won't dwell on these consistencies, but i feel obligated to point them out like all of american history, it has its ironies. this issue is no different.

my story focuses as nearly all of my stories do. as david told you, our focus is on lincoln. at first, a western politician whose rise and anti-slapp avery activism coincided with a growing of and a growing resistance to immigration. a resistance from which lincoln did not try very hard to disassociate himself, even though he did publicly and consistently advocate for an open door policy. but the ambivalence was true of many others, too. outright anti-cop, like nativists like samuel f.b. morse, whom we think of as an inventor and an artist but who wrote egregious anti-catholic literature in the 1830s and forties. and then there were the look the other way progressives thaddeus stevens salmond, pete chase.

good on a.c., bad on catholic immigration. lincoln himself would from inconsistent nancy all the way to fostering truly revolution era change in military and civilian life, acting in transformative ways. and we'll get to that in a few minutes. not that lincoln solved all the problems about refugees and migrants for all time. that's obvious. as we know he did. however, point in the direction of expanding the definite vision of what it meant to be american. but i don't want to get ahead of the story. i was astonished, i guess, when i started for this book, to be reminded that the constant tution did not give. the federal government, the power to regulate immigration only, to regulate

naturalization. so the the power to police new arrivals rested with the states and localities and the result not until the supreme court reinterpreted the issue of foreign oversight that much later was open borders, though some localities did turn away arrivals that they described as indigent or idiots. some discussed this discouraged tidal of foreign refugees by imposing head taxes on new arrivals, some by imposing regulations on the load that a ship could carry in terms of human occupancy. but during the founding era and up through the 1870s, new arrivals came off the boats registered at an office, disclosed only their their country of origin their gender.

and within five years from that arrival date, they could return and become citizens of the united states. and in the meantime, they could work anywhere. navy, alien sedition act under john adams raise that that waiting to 14 years but then it went back to five not everyone welcome these new arrivals to be sure and it intent the new arrivals intensified in the 1840s with the failure potato crops in ireland and the 1848 failure of liberal revolutions in continental europe within. the decade more than a million new immigrants, largely german and irish, surged into the united states. and these are people who are seeking food or seeking freedom and not everyone here, as i

said, welcome them. in 1844, the year lincoln turns 35, tries fails to get nominated for congress. a horrendous anti-catholic erupts in philadel fan churches are burned books are destroyed there's death toll. the state militia is called it's actually two riots, one in may and one in the summer. why does this concern abraham lincoln? because the whig party in pennsylvania is blamed for stirring up anti catholic passion. so whigs all over the country. this is a president election year, after all assemble at these mass meetings to say it wasn't the whigs, it wasn't us. we don't oppose immigration. that's when lincoln is called on to write his first resolution on or not on immigration. and he says that foreigners and

catholics should have a path to citizenship that is as convenient, cheap and expeditious just as possible. he publicly varies from that view. but as the whig party fades, i think not only overstay slavery and their inaction on slavery, but also their confusion on immigration. why were they hostile to foreigners and catholics for a very expedient reason. irish immigrants, the democratic party? because the democratic party embraced them. what came first? the embrace, the joining? i don't know, but it was mutually beneficial at that point for the preponderant number of irish to join the democrat hands by the 1850s, the horrendous no nothing movement has gripped the united states lodges, secret lodges up across the country, dedicated expunging foreigners, particularly

catholics electing mayors, congressmen, and inspiring a lurid literature about who ravaged nuns and catholics who plot to overturn the presidency and impose the pope as the leader of the united states. and lincoln, who was a candidate for the senate in, the midst of this movement in 1855 and runs again. you all know again, stephen douglas in 1858 as to maybe not choose but confront this ugly thread in american politics as he helps organize and the new republican party dedicated to fighting the expansion of slavery. this is a serious movement. in 1856, the first year that the republicans field a president candidate, the no nothing nominates a presidential candidate of its own dedicated to things like no foreigner can never hold elective office in the united states the waiting

period should be increased from 5 to 14, even 21 years. the party gets. 2% of the national vote. one of the most successful third party efforts in american history. and now it's still rampant it's still subterranean or ground. and lincoln is dedicated to rallying people. anti-slavery. how does he bring people into that movement? well, one of the things he has to do is convince nativists, that the future course should be around expunging slavery or at least limiting its expansion in the short run. and as lincoln tells an abolitionist, he's to fuze with anybody. as long as the fusion takes place on his terms. but how far will they go? in a famous letter that's almost universal, certainly quoted by lincoln's biographers to prove,

i think lincoln's core hostility to nativism, he wrote, i am not a know nothing. how could i be? how can anyone who abhors the oppression of black people be in favor of degrading classes of white people? well, that's all well and good, but i think it's important to remember that lincoln expressed that sentiment in a private letter to his closest personal friend, joshua speed. and that speed kept secret for years. it was not public during political life. and as he said to owen lovejoy just a few weeks before, he said much the same thing. and then he added, no, nothing ism has not yet entirely tumbled to pieces. its elements, he said, were still needed by republicans to fight douglass the democrats. the kansas-nebraska and the

expansion of slavery. so lincoln says, i fear an open push by us now against the native us and i'm quoting may offend them and prevent our ever getting them stand with anybody who thinks right on the issue of slavery. and then a year later we have this third party run. so i don't think in 1855, lincoln is much you might even say, not enough to stem the tide of anti-catholic. anti-catholic? no, nothing ism in the united states. so in 1858, when he challenges stephen douglass and they run a really public fight for the senate, lose lincoln, loses the senate. in 1855 to lyman trumbull in 58, he has to he finds himself somewhat conflicted on this issue. the nativists, the real

nativists, don't really trust them. he may be talking to them privately and he may not be attacking them, but he's not exactly embracing anti-catholicism either. the irish douglass and his newspaper supporters are attacking lincoln for, as one newspaper writes, holding, entertaining a holy horror of all irishmen and other adopted citizens who have sufficient self-respect to believe themselves so to the --, lincoln would disenfranchize allies. every adopted citizen if he had the power. this is the charge that we hear in 58 that lincoln would secretly the franchise for african americans. and we know he's not quite there yet, but he can't publicly appeal to nativists either without fear of offending his own base, which now includes ten years of thousands of the german immigrants who came later moved to illinois, moved into the

west, and overwhelmingly identified with anti-slavery and the new republican party. so lincoln kind of remained silent this issue for another year, except for two statesmen, which i love to talk about in one of the lincoln-douglas debates. he says that the american west should be open not merely for our own people who were born amongst us, but as an outlet for free people everywhere the world over in which i get ready for the in in which hands and baptist and i guess he means germans, frenchmen and the irish and all the other men from all around the world may find new homes and better their conditions in life. that was an extraordinary and something of a risk. speaking in chicago around

independence day, he saluted the race of men living in the day of revolution. their descendants. and then he looked out in the crowd, saw a bunch of germans supporters, the audience he recognized one chicago leader named anton lessing. it was hard to miss. and lincoln had snubbed on july 4th. he had not gone to a big political picnic and. he regretted it because it got a ton of press and a lot of attendance. the lincoln looks and says, besides, the men descended by blood from our ancestors, there are germans, french and scandinavian here, men who have come from europe or whose ancestors settled here, and they find themselves equals in all things. if they look back through history to trace their connection with, the days of revolution by they have not. but when they look through the

declaration of independence they find it says all men are created equal and that they have a claim to that moral promise. let's head to lincoln as though they were the blood of the blood and flesh of flesh of the men who wrote that declaration. and so they are that's an extraordinary statement, particularly for a republican who's trying to court nativist secretly. and lincoln isn't perfect. i mean, he complains to his friends that there are irishmen being dumped at the railroad station to cast fake votes for stephen douglass. he suggests hiring to root them out. at least he doesn't do that publicly. and he is paranoid about irish voter fraud for 58 and 60, he loses race, as we know. to stephen douglass the next year, the state of massa passes

a law extending cities voting waiting periods, 14 years and forbidding foreign people from holding state office. the republican party leaders are petrified that this is going metastasize and be an issue in the presidential campaign to come. so lincoln kind of quietly condemns it with a very important letter the man who asks him to write the letter, then asks him to invest in a german language. lincoln becomes secret publisher of a german language newspaper, nor could he read german. no, he had studied german, but as one of his friends in the class said, lincoln kept cracking jokes and none of us learned any german in the class. lincoln actually a german language newspaper for the entire 1860 political campaign.

now we get to the politics 1860, emboldened by and helped by german backers. now, he's not the first choice of germans at the 1860, republican convention in chicago, seward in seward, an amazing record on immigration rights. he's a friend of the catholic archbishop of new york. he once supported a government aid to aid to parochial. so he's the champion. but once lincoln wins the nomination and the german members of the republican leadership fanned out across the west speaker's bureau. it was in german and english. carl schertz of wisconsin then leads the brigade he calls the foreign relations committee of the republican national. were the votes dispositive in electing lincoln? we don't know. i mean, he likely would have won anyway with three opponents. but the german vote in the west was huge for lincoln. illinois flipped from the

democrats to the republicans. lincoln did well in indiana and wisconsin and know that he appreciated german support. what did he do in the interregnum between election day and inauguration day? he appointed as germans to ambassadorial posts as he could call shirts and i'm going to say, ambassador, it's they called it minister then, but it's a little confusing. karl schertz is appointed ambassador to madrid, one of the key diplomatic offerings in the world of patronage. german editors get to consulates, including the editor who had managed the german newspaper in springfield, lincoln wants them out of town. i mean, they don't want anybody to about this newspaper. so gives dr. theodore canisius a consular job and then has the illinois state legislature by up every extant copy this newspaper. so any of you who are collectors have a copy of the illinois starts on cigar in your basement or your attic.

you can pay for all of our dinners tonight with ease. lincoln's chief of staff john nicolay is from germany. when the president elect passes through cincinnati, the germans greet him and volunteer or to join the union now and defend the country. and lincoln reminds them that he would never put anything in the way of foreign born people coming to the united states. what smart political move and i hope a personal move because as soon as fort sumter is fired on lincoln needs not just republican proto state volunteers and commanders he needs democrats he needs germans to volunteer in the west he needs the irish to volunteer in boston, new york and, philadelphia and you knew i was going to get back to new york eventually. there was a monster rally at

union square on april 20th, 1861, 100,000 people and the flag of fort sumter is strong from the big bronze equestrian statue of george washington that is now in union square park. it was a little south of it that and speaker after speaker, the germans, they said we'd still love the fatherland, but this is our flag. this is our symbol. we will fight to the death for our adopted country. more importantly, politically the irish speaker after speaker come up. one says, i don't like abraham lincoln, particularly didn't vote for him, but he's our president. and i will we will fight for him because the firing on fort sumter is just as as if the british fleet had entered new york harbor. and that's a pretty statement for a for an irish leader in new york city in 1861. now, lincoln with the help of

the aforementioned archbishop john hughes creates a wish list. of irish recruits. michael corcoran, who has had been under court martial for refusing to call up the 69 brigade to assemble to greet the prince of wales. he said, i'm not having my irish men greet the heir to the british throne. he was being court martialed as soon as lincoln needed him, the court martial mysteriously disappeared, and corcoran organized the second ninth into the fighting unit that came down here to arlington heights. thomas francis a remarkable irish leader who had been banished to australia, who had escaped to california, made his way all the way to new york, boston, then new york. he was recruited to be corcoran's second in command, which was good because corcoran was a captured bull run and ma

took over the 69th. these were boys for irish recruitment for the whole country. lincoln was willing not only to appoint these democrats who had not supported him, but he went so far as to recruit james shields. now on paper, he looks as good as corcoran and more. he's an the highest irish-american leader in the mexican war. but lincoln and shields had a past lincoln and shields had actually for the senate in 1855. shields, the incumbent, they both lost more importantly in. 1841, after lincoln had broken up with mary todd, he learned that his fiancee was busy writing under an assumed name a series of satires about irish democrats. remember, mary was a good writer and a good whig at the time.

lincoln found a way to get back in her good graces. he would visit the home of the local newspaper editor and help her with these satires. one of them was about james shields reading it today. one a little uncomfortable. it's very anti irish, of course. they it and to rebecca so it seemed to be by someone else. but shields was so infuriated about the aspersion cast on masculinity and his cleanliness and everything that he demanded, the newspaper editor, tell him who wrote this. lincoln said, given my name i'm certainly not going to give mary's name. by the way, they got married right after this. i think it did a world of good for his love life. shields challenged lincoln, a duel. they went off to bloody ireland, where dueling was legal because it was technically missouri as a challenge party. lincoln gets to choose weapons, so he chooses broad swords and then takes a few practice swings on low hanging branches of

trees, shearing them off with a single swipe. so that's when shields said, maybe we should just forget about this. this whole thing. but lincoln never talks about it again. it is not a funny incident in his life in when someone mentions that years later in the white as he says, if you want to be my friend, don't ever mention that in my presence he recruits shields. i mean shields eventually, none of these men get have military records, i might add. although the irish became more and more proficient and more and more celebrated, the war went on, but think he had to swallow his pride and his bring up dredge up a episode he wasn't comfortable with, to recruit shields. and shields had to come all the way from mexico, meet with lincoln in the white house. by the way, the senate in tommy tuberville fashion refused to appoint him major general, refused ratify his appointment. so it got messy. and then shields ran into more threatening dueling partner,

even abraham lincoln. stonewall jackson. so lincoln sent shields packing, but actually he did a really nice thing. he appointed him to a commission in so shields essentially got a free government trip back home and later became, he's the only man to serve as senator from three states. and what probably haunts lincoln is that his statue stands in statuary hall near the place where lincoln served in the house. so these were symbols and he had the same impact on german recruitment. he wants france segal to lead a in the west. i fight smith segal big i fight smith segal becomes a rallying cry among germans a single is most famous for retreating and you know, organized retreating. they eventually call them the flying dutchman for his retreats. but a poster boy for german

recruitment. my favorite. and i don't know how many of you here ever heard the great john wiley simon lecture, but he loved to talk about in his deep basso voice, which i certainly can't replicate. he loved to talk about general alexander fenech and schimmel. pfennig was the general who got a little spooked on the first day of gettysburg and ended up hiding under reports near a pigsty two houses away from where wendy allen lives in gettysburg. and for two days, he just, well, three days, he just stayed in the pigsty. so these poster boys important for recruitment but not all did brilliant carl shirts let his retreat wildly at chancellorsville and was brought up by the committee. the conduct of the war fought with hooker, but lincoln needs, these immigrants never more so

than at the end of 1863, when he has to his latest annual message to congress the equivalent of the state of the union message lincoln is sick he has contracted smallpox. on november 19th in gettysburg, but he's got 15 days to write this message. and i think it's not in his handwriting because he just didn't have the strength write most of it. but what he says in it is, transformative. he wants a federal program to encourage an act to encourage immigration. no one has ever proposed that to before. he proposes establishing first federal bureau of immigration which occurs in lodging the castle garden immigrant landing station lower manhattan, which preceded ellis island as the largest landing spot in the u.s.

for four germans, an irish particular lee, as he puts it while jobs are going unfulfilled in the u.s., tens of thousands of persons destined to of occupation are thronging our foreign consulates, offering emigrate here if essential but very cheap assistance can be afforded him this noble effort demands the aid and support of the government. what was his effort behind the scenes? he tells congress he would like the federal government to underwrite the ocean voyages of new immigrants. never suggested and never again. republicans begin taking to the floor of congress and predicting that if we spend this money, it will be repaid 100 times over because the immigrants work and

thrive in the united states. but democrats denounce the idea and they point to the empty chairs of the dead lincoln trying to replace the empty chairs at the dinner table, a phrase we we still hear about the casualties of modern a eventually even republican soured on it with awful language. the new york times editorialized, and the new york times was practically an administration organ at this point hired immigration would export to us the refuge -- of the sinks of germany, ireland. every principle city with lazy and wretched subject who are a burden to their community would send them to the nearest seaport and let them quietly take advantage of our government. so there was a moment when lincoln wanted the program it's a bridge too far for congress. ultimately, there's a compromise

bill which is in itself innovative. and if it reminds people of. true, it has an echo of indenture. lincoln empowered private companies who specialized in placing immigrants in jobs to fund these ocean bound voyages. and then people would be obligated pay it back in one or two years out of their wages. that in itself a milestone bill unprecedented, innovative. why did he do it? well, there were probably already three or 400,000 dead in the armed forces. there were tens of thousands of wounded and sick men who might never work again. and as lincoln said specifically, we desperately need men in our factories, farms and mines. and that was the kind of un

philanthropic explanation he gave to congress. but we know from the previous that he wanted every hands and baptized in patrick to find a path here you would think that immigrants in the united republican affiliated to immigrants would have cheered on without question, a second term, but it didn't happen that way. there was a german revolt of significant size as lincoln prepared to run for reelection, led by those who were unhappy that emancipation had not come to missouri and other border states, angry that lincoln was using the army to crack down on some labor actions in new york and boston and in missouri. just angry. and who did they own? angry. lincoln had dissed franz sigel. that was maybe their biggest complaint.

and there's nothing lincoln could have done with that. he was not capable, commanding an important force in the army. they haggled all spring the germans and lincoln, almost every german newspaper denounced him and said he unfit for a second term. ultimately, a convention met and nominated, as i'm sure you all know, c fremont as a third party candidate, fremont was considered more liberal on emancipation than lincoln. keep in mind the proclamation has already been and. he gets huge and widespread german endorsements that's often thought of as a revolting ernst lincoln purely about the emancipation. but 70% of the delegates to that rump convention were german born. it was a revolt against lincoln and as we know, only the cabinet reshuffled it. lincoln reshuffled the cabinet did. this german rebellion against abraham lincoln end?

it wasn't easy. karl schertz came to washington and said that lincoln maybe should drop out. lincoln took him to the soldiers and yelled at him, said, if there's anyone more fit than i let him come forward. but i doubt you'll find any. and sure, it's melted, as he often did in lincoln's presence, and eventually the tide turns in that frightening reelection campaign. lincoln, not only because of sherman and atlanta, not only because of mobile bay in sheridan's ride. lincoln sheridan my favorite little irishman, i might add, but also of the changes brought forth on this continent, on immigration and ultimately the germans abandoned the fremont third party campaign and vote en masse for. lincoln in his final, final annual message, december 64, lincoln went further than he had ever gone on the subject.

he says, i regard our emigrants as one of the principal replenished streams which are pointed by providence to repair the ravages of internal war and its waste of national strength and health. think of that. ordained by providence that's meaningful in the lincoln canon, he had said earlier, if god wills that the war continue, then it must. it's god's design. in a few weeks, he'll say, if god wills at every drop of the last, every drop of blood drawn with a lash, must be paid back with one drawing with the sword, the judgment, the lord, our true and righteous together at the second inaugural. but in between those more famous statements, he's saying that god has also willed that immigration continue and increase to the united states. somehow we have forgotten those sentiments. so they propose a new bill to

cure some of the deficient sins in the first the homestead act, as i said earlier, now applies to foreigners. it's the last pro-immigration reform for 100 years. lincoln doesn't live to sign it. he dies in the home. a german born tailor, his assassin, as i said, is killed by a british soldier commanded by an irish captain. he lies in state in new york, guarded by thomas francis. more as irishman. march in the parade. he's observed by a teenaged irish born artist student who never forgets the space he sees in that open coffin in new york and goes on to immortalize him in bronze. augustus saint gardens. so under lincoln the face and of america changed. and i think lincoln

affirmatively helped change it. but did he do so perfectly? no. he also signed the a bill horrendously cold, the color act of 1862, which limited chinese immigration to california because the coolie trade it was called was considered a second slave. trade by some. but in truth, california had been 65% asian and many californians wanted that to stop. did his vision include latinos? no. it just wasn't a major thing. although in the mexican session, every mexican in the new american territory became an american overnight. it just wasn't a major part of the immigration experience. but i do turn back to that 1858 speech when lincoln invited a foreigners to share a democracy

they could believe in, identify with, and fight for. remember day, he assured immigrants that they had every right to share the blessings of the declaration, just as if they were blood of the blood of the founders. not to be political. and these times are not the 1860s, for sure. it's a much bigger country in area. we have ten times the population now in the united states. but lincoln never talked about poisoning the blood of america. he referred to there enriching the blood of america. and sometimes i think it's good for us to remember that the politician who had once imagined irish carpetbaggers illinois to vote illegally against him came a long long way, and by the end of his life, as he talked about exporting american democracy to

the world. he's also about importing future subjects of democracy to, the united states, to share a restored union that native born and foreign born americans could agree was worth dying for. by the end of the war. 40 german born soldiers and 90 irish born soldiers earned the medal of honor. thousands paid for their loyalty with their lives. that full measure of diverse devotion is, i think, reflected in lincoln, said at gettysburg. it's what he wanted, brought forth on this continent, and it's part of his political legacy that has been too long overlooked, perhaps to our own detriment new york and washington and on our borders and in our so-called sanctuary citizens that at their best and our best immigrants are not a drain on our resources. but potentially, as lincoln put,

it a replenishing stream. now, lincoln himself did not always follow his instincts, his own words on full tolerance and inclusion, but he always believed the better angels of our nature, that all oppressed people from anywhere should find a safe haven here. as i said, this talk is not meant to is meant to be historical not political. but as lincoln once declared in this very city, we cannot escape history. thank you. question. if you have a question for harold, i would ask you to come to this microphone and we'll try to alternate between in-person

question and those who are joining us via zoom. so. thank you, professor halter, for that talk. most people on the northeast corridor of the united, which tends to dominate the thinking in this country, do not know that the largest ethnic group in the united states all along going back to the early 18th century, are the germans. they came into the palatine from the palatine it into central and western pennsylvania. they took the great wagon road and came down the shenandoah valley. they've been with us forever. and lincoln had to take them seriously. but i disagree with you about karl schertz. his influence. he was hated by a lot of germans because he was an atheistic freethinker. the most important german was gustav korner, the catholic german congressman from bellville, illinois, which has been the capital of southern illinois. catholicism for almost 200 years

now. i'm a great, great grandson of irish immigrants on my mother's side, but my mother grew up in philadelphia. one of the two, major metropol areas that had a republican irish machine. philadelphia and pittsburgh. and you keep talking about how and irish lincoln was and some of the whigs and certainly a lot of the england republicans. you don't ask. why? the reason why? because the irish voted 90 to 95% for the democrats. and there wasn't serious reason for them. i think i just not to interrupt you, but i think i did say exactly that. i'll address the german part in a minute, but i said exactly that lincoln liked immigrants who were republicans and the democrats. yeah, but the germans probably leaned a little more democrat than republican, but at least they weren't. bloc voting like 9090 5%. may i answer some of what you said? yes. all right. which i will in a second. so gustav carter plays a large role in my.

his loyalty to lincoln. complete, absolute. lincoln shafted him in 1860. he did not give him a federal job he coveted. and when carter tried to troops in illinois lincoln actually told him he was embarrassing him because he didn't have enough supplies for all the regiments that had volunteered. ultimately, the best he can do is follow schertz as ambassador to madrid or to spain. when schertz comes back to raise a regiment and kerner was jealous of schertz for sure. schertz was highly influenced among the republican germans and protestant germans. yes, he had lots of enemies. he got a lot of help from media. oh, he was a darling of the media. he knew how to play it. and kerner was, you know, but he carter was the first german to be lieutenant governor of illinois, loyal lincoln supporter. i think as always is a complicated question. you talking about early germans many of whom are catholic the

protestant wave that comes after the revolutions of 1848 are largely practiced. and there's an argument about whether 1860 they're 50, 50 or 6040. i they tend more to lincoln's in 1860 than to being even they're not as black voting as irish, but lincoln really cultivates them. but yes, there's a threat of rivalry between connor and sure, it's all through their lives and and and the book. and kerner, of course, comes back from spain to to to fight as well. do you know, lincoln, when when fremont issues his proclamation, freeing slaves in his jurisdiction in missouri. he fires fremont at lincoln, fires fremont and replaces him with halleck. the germans are furious because they like halleck and they like fremont. they don't want lees. they don't like halleck.

halleck is also as actually the son of a german immigrant. but that didn't seem to have and yeah. so lincoln hatches this really odd idea let's make kerner a brigadier general and chief aide to henry howell. and halleck says, wait a minute. i mean, doesn't say this. i'm paraphrasing. he says, wait a minute, i don't want lincoln's dear friend hanging outside my office and reporting, you know, around the chain of command to the commander in chief. so that never out lincoln like to keep rivals at other's throats in many ways, he thought it was productive. a lot of. great presidents have played that game with their own supporters. fdr was another who did that. kennedy did it. so anyway, it's a complicated story. i hope you find it detailed in a more complete version in the book. i'm just going to make one very quick point now. lincoln's political was henry

clay. henry clay lost new york by about 1200 votes in 1844. if he wins it, he becomes president lincoln. and a lot of whigs were justifiably bitter about that election loss. zachary taylor wins in 1848. david potter his book, co-written with the german lutheran don fehrenbach. baker, notes that they think the 1852 election was stolen by immigrant vote because win warfield scott even though often derided as a political candidate, got more votes, more votes for the whigs in 1852 and losing than tailored it in 1848 and winning and potter says in the chapter on the election, he said the immigrant was the highest it's ever been to the percentage of the u.s. he said pierce won about six, maybe seven or eight states by very narrow margins, and he attributed the loss to fraud, voter fraud involving, irish immigrants and and the whigs would agree with you. horace greeley thought the

election was stolen. and i might add that scott not only lost immigrant votes, he lost anti-immigrant votes because he said early in the campaign that any veteran of the united states army or navy who has had one year of citizenship, one year of residency, should eligible for citizenship, not five years. he was immediately attacked by nativists, and then when he clarified his position and said, no, i don't mean i want a lot of foreigners here. he lost the immigrant vote as well. and frankly, if you read pearce, as i did for this book, it is replete with references scott as a nativist and the poor guy tried to open, open doors. thank you for the questions. john's probably in d.c. i'm quite disappointed in arlington library. they don't have all of your books and the ones that they do have all checked out. so i'd love it if you'd autograph this one too. can you expand on what i knew

from your book on on the lincoln in the press, that lincoln owned a german newspaper? how common was it for various politicians at the state and national level to own newspapers? and i'm from saint louis. there's still, i think, an italian language newspaper in a neighborhood of italians in saint louis. how common was it throughout the 1800s, or at least in lincoln's time for conklin or began it or whoever it was? yeah. papers i mean, saint louis and its italian community gave my city yogi berra. so, you know, we love the italian community in louis because of yogi. but in all seriousness, it was not uncommon. schuyler colfax the future speaker of the house on the newspaper, simon cameron owned a newspaper in 1864. henry. who was the founding of the new

york times, became head of the republican national committee and ran for congress all while staying at the times because newspapers were creatures of political machines. horace greeley and i'm giving you the reverse as well as the inverse horace greeley for lieutenant governor of new york. when seward went to join the lincoln administration as, secretary of state greeley came very close to becoming the senator until they finally chose ira harris and the state legislature to replace seward. so it was common practice. it was a means i mean, you know, who was the founder of the york post in 1803? alexander hamilton, the spokesman for the federalist, though, who wrote articles under assumed names on the remote federal causes. so it was a long tradition in american politics to sync up newspapers and political organizations. how much was the patriot to the south? the governors?

and yeah, it was it was it existed in the south as well there was less of a two party press in the south. there was a there was a vigorous whig and democratic press, the richmond whig, for example. but once secession happens, it's kind of a unicameral press effort. it's a pro-slavery press. and of course, there were no republican editors south of the mason-dixon line, but. of course. perhaps as a final element of lincoln and immigrants could, you comment on the attempted theft of his remains, but apparently by two chinese immigrants. well, it was like it was sort of a multiethnic gang and the the

the idea was to hold lincoln's remains in as ransom to free a bunch of counterfeiters who had been imprisoned and the the problem with cheap problem with the scheme is that the coffin and the bronze hearse weighed thousands pounds so they barely got down the hill. the other alternate theory is that it was a means of disrupting the 1876 election, which was place on the day of the grave robbery. but i don't really believe that because the election was, you know, it was already underway. so that's a that's just a bizarre story. a guy named thomas crowl wrote a great book, an irishman called stealing lincoln's body, which i think tells the very well thank you, of course. thank you. i can't read your books fast

enough. you're right. faster than i can read. and i think that goes for many of us. i'm going to give you all i'm going to give you a pause for a few years. you can catch up you mentioned bishop. here's in new york city and i ran across and i'd like to dig into it. maybe someone has done some work on. but lincoln had a secret commission that he sent over to europe, and i think bishop mcilvaine of ohio was dispatched to england there own read, i believe, to france. no, he was to france used to france and, thurlow wrote. i'm not sure where was assigned to. i don't know if they were effective. but the timing of the trench affair suggests that maybe they were. as far as some softening going on, anything you can say about that? yeah, i do deal with it in the book. hughes, who is a democrat, you

know, although a church leader, he's still very enthusiastic backer of the 69th regiment. he blesses the cannon and all that stuff. seward is the one, i think initiates this plan as a long time friend of hughes's, and that is to send the archbishop to france to mollify about and to prevent their recognizing the confederacy. so if you read the memoirs of archbishop, he was really effective. i mean, he also visited rome and spoke to italians, he visited ireland, he spoke to the irish. he was not well at the time. he was arthritic. he was he had gout. and when he came home, he was kind of on his last legs. some people believe that if he had been a little more vigorous. he might have spoken out sooner against the york city draft riots as. it was he spoke, i think, on the third day from the balcony of old st patrick's cathedral and begged his irish brethren to stop fighting because not

because they were wrong, particularly, but because the union army was on its way to shoot them down. so i deal with it in the book and it's a great question. he is a fascinating figure in american kind of neglected they call them dagger john which indicates what tough guy he was but just check to see paul do you have a question from zoom attendees. to that question that we were not able to hear from? most republicans? of course here on c-span, one? you know, a lot of you remember the rose garden since the start of may two. since my my mom's family were in germany. i have to make a comment or two about and bring medicine into this, of course. but carl, we reenact the

gettysburg at the 11th core hospital as you well know most of the a lot of those guys were german immigrants and schurz came out there visit the wounded. and we have we have a plaque here. we say that the george spangler farm where he we're schurz is talking about the surgeons in their blood stained linen aprons and people ask all the time, how do you know you they wore those uniforms, those aprons. i said, well, there are some photograph shows, but we quote carl schurz to say that happened. but you i mentioned this to say, you know, he was not the world's greatest general, but he did care about his men and and gettysburg is probably the only campaign where you could say he did pretty well. yeah actually. but steinmeier got is the german who got a street n him which i didn't quite get didn't didn't he. later become secretary of the interior. yes. and he was the first german elected to the u.s. senate.

and he has a park named for him in manhattan as well. good evening. my my my name is mrs. tibbets. it is a civil war. general tibbets and i have a question. in 1863, london had already the metro station. but here it was the war. the civil. because the industrialization we've was growing in the world this way here in in america, it was reason of the civil war. now don't make from slaves workers for industrialization of the country. what is your opinion. are you asking me if i think slavery was the cause of the war? yes, i'm. i missed. i missed the nuances of the question because industrial. why when a slaves receive freedom they could be active in the industrialization of the country. right and because the technology

technology in the europe in london for example were more actives and here that's why may be the reason of the war was to attract more people more hands to for industrialization of the country. well i don't think the reason for the civil war but it's a result of the civil war for sure. and i think lincoln was concerned about what black labor would do and he was he believed actually in a kind of a archaic system of indenture, liberated african-americans, something he never got to formally introduce. so it's very complicated. did you say you were related to general stephens? and i know i have related to general tributes to. yes, yeah. i think a civil war. civil war was on meeting more and more disturbed by marriage and blood of civil war generals in the last few weeks.

and he was invited by lincoln's people to fall or fall or lincoln and his mother, $5,000 for wounded people. this is a civil war now. it is $25 million. so i wanted to bring as a trophy of generalship is the slavery flag of the south. but then i decided, you know too much. well, thanks. your comments. thank you. it was a beautiful talk. you. my head's still swimming with everything you told, us, you know, still trying to process. but you talked about the the irish can the catholic protestant split among the germans coming in and i. i had always understood that maryland was a catholic colony. but by and large, the land in the east was owned by the protestant side scott, a scots english dutch. and so the german, the catholic germans came, they went to the midwest with this land. and they could get they could get land.

but a jesuit, a georgetown told me that an interesting thing is the priesthood in the east has traditionally been the hands of the of the irish is very conservative, not the jesuits, but very conservative overall. whereas in the priesthood, in the midwest was catholics and i think you were saying a lot of them there were 1848 people and there were a lot more liberal in the catholic church is a politically more liberal forces in the catholic church have often come from midwest all reasonable but if you think going to get in between catholic and just one differences of the church, i will simply i just always take a little thank you for fascinating comments. i have to say that our cardinal in new york, cardinal dolan is a huge civil war enthusiast. i not say buff on a night dedicated in part to ed bars. he's an enthusiast. and i i'm.

in 2023 160th anniversary three of the draft riots the the church and the american irish historical mounted an exhibition on the long history of the irish in new york and i went out to say hello or to introduce myself to the cardinal and he took the large he was wearing and aimed it at me so i didn't know what was happening. and i said he said, you know what this is? and i said, yes, sir, i do. and then he said, this is what bishop hughes wore to calm the crowd at in 1863 at the draft riots, which i thought was just an extraordinary experience. you know, the moment when a relic appears that adds nuanced the archives that you find. thank you very much, mr.

all for a great presentation. and i tried my best to get through the the book as quickly as possible. it came on saturday and it is a page turner. so i agree with bill to continue on that. i learned a lot. i'm my name is kurt comes from the german and i'm a catholic so found some interesting things in there. so that was very good and i in your introduction, your have ukrainian heritage, which is very interesting and romanian. so i hear very interesting background to do enlighten you not that anyone knew really where they were from ukraine, poland, austria it's you know it's just the pale as they said. so i wrote ukraine because that seems to be where these towns that i know about are. and yes, one ukrainian one no romanian grandmother. so yeah, i'm the grandson of four immigrants as well from the

1890s. so your book was very is very timely. i tried my best to find a copy of one of this newspaper years, but the best i could do was riverside literature series number 185. a short life, abraham lincoln by charles moors. so we don't give honorarium so this will be yours and i did find $10 of richmond confederate money of race in there. the next round is on me. then. yeah. thanks thank you very much. thank you.