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>> this year c-span celebrates 45 years of covering congress like no other. since 1979 we have been your primary source for capitol hill providing balanced unfiltered coverage of government. taking you to where the policy is debated and decided all with the support of america's cable companies. c-span, 45 years and counting, powered by cable. >> offers guests of f the mornig served as a form secretary of labor and the biden administration, sir choice act director vought national, natural international hockey league. joining us to talk about other topics. thanksg for giving us your tim. >> guest: great beer. my first time. >> host: the reasonable project in was to talk about the idea of thehe substance abuse. could you stop a telling us your own story? >> guest: the producer in the back, he must abort the buyer, being the hockey head of the

hockey union, mayor of boston, labor secretary, state representative, military, all that was possible. none of that probably wouldn't happen if i didn't get sober. i might've thought it would but it didn't. my journey as, without collison, when after active it's the good the bad and ugly they call it. when you start reading it on. it turns into not so much fun and then itnt by the end of it it's pretty ugly. you realize i was fortunate enough to get into treatment for our collison, went to detox to get sober. when a wiki docs i thought my life was basically over. i was 28, going to detox. what a going to do now? my whole life was at the bar room. my friends, whatever ithe might be. you did realize when you were in treatment to life issues beginning. when you get out if you're fortunate to get you in on the road to recovery. i've been blessed. >> host: when did you know you had a problem? >> guest: probably a younger age knowing that i would go out and stay out all night long,

blackouts, things like that happen. what you don't want to acknowledge it. you know insideac you have an issue but you don't want to knowledge it. people run to start todo drop hints, labor union at one point, very much in office and semi-coworkers would drop pamphlets on the desk. all that stuff. you look at it and push it aside and don't really think about it but a progression. the disease is a progression so as you get more and more into it, it progresses. the challenges and the problems are bigger and bigger every time. >> host: when you said you went to treatment, what brought that on? what type of treatment you to undergo? >> guest: i went to call treatment and we have down the cape. was down there for a week. was s series of bad nights, bad days,

things you do, regret when you drink. not realizing you are impacting people around you. and i was doing all that. i remember my first night in there, i did not want to go. i went because i thought i was going to lose my job. to get the heat off of me, whatever it was. there was a lot of heat for my friends and boss. it was a sunday. my first day there they check to make sure you have nothing on you, do an assessment of you, physically. and then you go into groups and you have aa meetings. i've gone to one aa meeting in my life. so, i circled one one night and went to the meeting. i found out years later i got there late, because i sat in the

back. the guy next to me had been drinking and i was listening to the speakers and i thought, their life is pretty incredible. i found out years later i left that what was the break. i didn't hear the message that night. when i went to treatment i first night there a group came in, and i don't remember what the first speaker said. the first speaker gave me hope. you explain your experience of being an active alcoholic. recovery and the hope it brings. when he spoke that night something happened. i just had a different feeling in detox that night. i listened for the week and participated in groups and learned about yes. yes could be kill somebody, kill myself, whatever it might be under the influence of alcohol. learned about the disease, that

it is a disease. and, you know, even though alcoholic synonymous is a spiritual program, it is not a god program. i am a catholic, but it connected me to my higher power. i have a relationship with god, but it is not a spiritual program. i want people to be afraid. it is not a cold. it is unbelievable, what the program has done. i did that. a year and a half later i was running for office. i was running for state representative for my district in dorchester. i get elected state representative and serve 16 years in the house of representatives. one of the big issues i worked on was recovery programs. funding programs, learning about it, understanding all of the different challenges. you know, heroin. i say it was an epidemic in 1997.

oxycontin had been running through, hair one had been running through. i got very active in the recovery community, both personally as an individual, but also supporting programs in and around the greater boston area. it also funding programs. this is where the intersection of government comes into play. host: if you want to ask him questions on the topic of substance addiction and recovery, here is how you can call this morning. (202) 748-8000 for the eastern and central time zones. (202) 748-8001 for the mountain and pacific time zones. if you have experience with addiction, (202) 748-8002. you can waste text us at (202) 748-8003. when you ran for office we you worried that the past would come up with you and there would be a stigma? guest: i didn't think about it. it was one of those things, somebody did say to me at one point, you know, it is

unfortunate about the word on the street. i say, what is it? your drunk driving arrest. i'm like, i have never been arrested for drunk driving. it becomes rumors, but when i ran for rep it was not an issue at all. because it is a local kind of race. it is neighborhood to neighborhood, street to street. when i ran for mayor of boston was different. it is a broader race and it can get nasty. there was a story written about me. a reporter called me up and said, i want to do a story on your recovery. i was torn, because it is like, there is a privacy piece of it. but she ran with the story, and it never came up. in the race no one ever brought it up. most of the people know each other anyway and knew i was in long-term recovery. it never became an issue.

even my buddy in the obama administration, when he was going for his job -- they don't call it the drug czar, but they went after him in congress. i think people understand it is in every home. not every home, but a lot of homes across the world. people look at substance use and alcoholism to a whole different light now. host: if i'm asked, when president biden was considering you as labor secretary, did this topic come up? guest: it did not come up at all and i was very open to people. if somebody is going to criticize me or somebody for admitting and working on being an alcoholic, and shame on them. there is enough stigma around mental health and substance use that we don't need more. the president never brought it up to me. no one in congress ever brought it up to me.

if they did how would say, i'm sure your family doesn't have any type of addiction. host: former labor secretary marty walsh here for this conversation. this is david. david is in georgia, on the line for those who have experienced addiction. go ahead. caller: yeah, i have been sober ever since 1994. i was not able to go through rehab. i could not afford it. i had to white knuckle it, going through aa. it was long, hard road to go through. and i pushed family away, lost friends, and it was just a long, hard road. guest: david, you certainly know the promises of alcoholic anonymous -- alcoholics anonymous. you have been sober a long time.

thank you for telling your story. a lot of people don't have the ability to get into rehab. they don't have the money to pay for rehab, but they are able to get their life back together. i hope you still go to meetings. host: jerry in new jersey. you are next up. good morning. caller: good morning. i have a question for you. i don't want to get into too much, but with the rehabs and all, my concern is, i see people coming out with almost the same problems they are going in white. -- in with. the reality, really, is very difficult. how do you get that kind of help? where do you draw the line with drug addiction and then the reality of life, and how do you help these people deal with that? guest: thank you for the question. part of it is, when you get out of detox or rehab you need to get connected to something.

and you cannot just simply come out and all of a sudden you are cured. it is not like you have a broken arm, you have a cast on, six weeks later the cast comes off and you don't have to go back to the doctor. it is a daily struggle. you work on this daily, every day. i think if you have a loved one in rehab or got out of rehab you want to make sure they are connected to a program. alcoholics anonymous, narcotics anonymous, that they are actively going to meetings. because going to detox is kind of the first step of admitting you are powerless over alcohol and drugs. the second piece of that is working on your life. as the previous caller stated, he lost his friends, his family, he lost everyone. you have to rebuild those relationships and you don't do that by simply going to detox. there is a process. do your research on these rehabs. when you are looking at where to send a loved one, make sure you

do your research to make sure they have a proven record. if you were going to send somebody out-of-state make sure you can check with consumer licensing bureau or somewhere different places to make sure you feel positive. there is a lot of places out there that take advantage of people. same thing with sober homes. making sure they are licensed and properly equipped to handle your loved ones, or if you are struggling yourself, to handle what you need. host: substance abuse and mental health services administration tells us people use illicit drugs in the past year. 48.7 million had substance abuse disorder in the past year. and there is other statistics there. talk about the role the federal government has in helping with substance abuse. guest: when you think about substance use and we think about recovery programs, there is two sides to this. number one, we can't forget what

purdue pharma and oxycontin did to america. they put such a strong foundation for addiction down there that from that point until today it has just compounded. you have kids having kids, people having children who had substance use issues, never really got clean. their families not -- never got the support they needed, and now it is intergenerational. we have to deal with the past as well. we have to figure out, how do we lay down some programming that can get people on a pathway to recovery? i think when i was the secretary of labor we had the mental health. bill, which was -- mental health parity bill. sometimes you need to go 3, 4, five times before you get sober. i think the insurance companies have to loosen the range of little bit here, because you are

saving lives. we have to make sure we are investing in recovery programs. we also have to rethink the way we do prevention. how do we educate young people? i think earlier the better. some people get concerned if we are talking about drugs and alcohol at a young age. some reasons are because people don't want to think about what is happening in their own home. but it is so important for us to lay down that foundation at an early age, what drug does to people. i think alcohol is still the number one killer in taking people's lives, but drugs, also the brain, the body, the family. i think the federal government can do a lot more with investing in it and i think states need to be more consistent as well. we've got to look at a whole bunch of programs. how do we move forward? when i was mayor of boston talking about safe consumption sites. they are in canada.

i was against them. when i was the mayor, because i just felt it was -- i thought in my own brain it was kind of promoting drug use. for some crazy reason. at a meeting i heard somebody talk about a path into recovery. any path into recovery is a good path into recovery. that sparked a little light in my brain. i went up to toronto, montreal, and i visited some of these consumption sites. they were people they are using drugs. it was not on the street. was no needles in back alleys. it was a health center. you walk in you do the drugs, but you also have recovery all around you. i was talking to a guy who is getting ready to do his drugs and i said to him, have you ever thought about getting into recovery? he said, no i haven't. i said, how come? he said, i haven't thought about it. i go, what happens if you want to? he goes, they would help me

here. that is a controversial issue, but it keeps people alive long enough for them hopefully to get into a program. host: do you sense the bipartisan effort? guest: for the most part it is bipartisan. you know, certainly in massachusetts legislature. i work very closely with the republicans and democrats together. the former governor of massachusetts, charlie baker, is active in this. in congress it is the one area you don't hear a lot of back-and-forth about, you know, progressive and conservative. i just wish there was more focus and attention on it. i think there is a lot of bipartisan support there. because, again, almost every family has some type of -- you are not that far removed from somebody who needs help. i would love to see more attention to it. you obviously have a lot going on in the world right now, but i

would love to see more effort put into recovery instead of coming to know, locking down our borders and stopping drugs coming. that is the political talking point. drugs are coming in from mexico. yes. but there is drugs on the streets in the united states. we have to do more about that. host: marty ross us for this conversation. this is from mi in washington, d.c. good morning. caller: thank you so much for sharing your experience. it is really inspiring and cool that you are talking about this publicly, and i'm also in recovery. i'm in a 12 step program called codependents anonymous, for people who have relationship issues. because i had a lot of mental illness and abuse in my family, and the program has helped me so much. it has been great. i was wondering, do you recommend being open about this

kind of thing with employers or potential employers? because that is something i feel nervous about sometimes. guest: i don't think you have to be necessarily open with your employer about it, but i think talking to people, support staff around you, letting other people know. one thing i have found that, obviously my recovery is pretty public. and in every way it is good, because sometimes people will randomly come up to me and talk to me about their issue or talk to me about something that, they will talk about recovery programs. i think that is a good thing. unfortunately not every employer in america is open and understanding as other people should be. but i think for you personally, if you are telling me you have a burning desire inside and need to talk to your employer about it, you should. but take it a day at a time. host: i think they are protected under privacy laws? guest: they are, but sometimes employers will look at somebody

who has substance use and say, what is going on their checkup but they don't understand is, when you have someone going to a still -- going to a 12 step program, they usually become the best employee. because they have taken all of the energy they used for their dependency on whatever it might be, let's say drugs and alcohol, and now they turn it around and become workaholics and focus their attention. whether it is working out or working in the workplace. i would love to say employers don't hold it against people, but unfortunately in some cases they do. host: joanne is in texas. you are next up. caller: hi, good morning to mr. walsh. i want to say congratulations on your sobriety. i want to commend you and your bravery. thank you so much for bringing this topic to the forefront. my comment is that i really do believe that america needs to do better when it comes to

providing rehabilitation for addicts. my husband and i were empty-nesters for a long time, and then, you know, we had to start all over again and start raising my granddaughter because, you know, my son has some issues. and, of course, we are happy to be there and support him, but i really do think this is more common, where grandparents are having to raise their grandchildren because there is addiction in their family. so, thank you so much for bringing this to the forefront, and, again, god bless you. i just want to say to anybody who is facing addiction, if it is either alcohol or drugs, just stay strong and just keep fighting. keep fighting for your life. thank you for taking my call. host: can i ask you a question? caller: absolutely. host: are there support systems

for you, who have to deal with these issues, even though you are dealing with another family member? caller: there are. one support group i am a part of is grandparents raising grandchildren here in texas. it is not a very big support group, but it is there for us to talk about and to get resources, because, unfortunately, the system is broken for these children. so, you know, just using that support system is very important for my husband and i. host: thanks for sharing. guest: you answered a lot there. i think some support is also al-anon, for family members of alcoholics. and al-ateen. one thing joanne said, fund

these programs. at an appropriate funding rate. we think about hospitals and what doctors and nurses make, some nurses in particular are underpaid. some are paid good, but can also be paid more. in these programs people are basically paid minimum wage. you are asking them to help a loved one get to a very difficult period of their life, and you are paying the minimum wage depending on the state. obviously minimum wage is pretty low and these are professionals. we need to pay the folks in this field higher so we can retain the talent there and recruit other talent. i think a lot of other people might want to go to college and become a psychologist and work in the field of mental health or substance use, and they are excited, go to a college, they pay $40,000 a year. they get out and all of a sudden they go to treatment and want to work there, and they are paid a

little bit over minimum wage. they are not able to do it. if we are going to fund the programs, let's fund them as if we are trying to help people. the numbers have gone up. i just finished reading a book about a hockey player who passed away in the 1990's. in that book they were talking about 20% of all people, i think by teenager, tried some substance. that number is probably higher. if more people are trying at that means members of addiction and substance use are going to go higher, and we need to combat that. it is a problem in our country. i think it was one million people last year died of overdoses in america. that is the ones we know of. a lot of times people don't want their loved ones registered as an overdose. that is a million people that if you take the substance out of their body, that is a million

strong workers in america we lost last year, and probably lost the year before. the pandemic made it a bigger issue, but it was a big issue before. host: how has fentanyl changed this? guest: every new drug brought into the mix is a game changer. obviously i think whether it is oxy, custom avenue, fentanyl, it continues to change the game and make it more dangerous for people. host: is there any avenue under the affordable care act that helps people? guest: there is coverage under the affordable care act, it goes back to insurance not dodging this issue. if i am an insurance company i'm going to look at the bottom line and said, i'm sending marty walsh to detox or rehab for five times. if you look at the success, the success of all of the people who went to rehab and never relapsed, and you look at their medical records, they are not showing up in the emergency

room, they don't have liver issues, they don't have all of these other issues. you are fixing the individual, not just mentally, with the addiction, but also helping them physically with the way they appear. they are not going to the hospital every weekend for a fight in a bar or whatever it may be. host: dave joins us from wisconsin. you are on with marty walsh. caller: good morning, marty. congratulations on your recovery. i have been sober for 13 years, or a little over. i am also in recovery. part of me 12 step program -- part of a 12 step program. when i started i had the impression that if i stopped drinking, you know, that would solve all of my problems. come to find out, you know, alcohol is just a symptom of a disease. you know, as i have gone through it i learned a lot about dealing

with, just life, and taking life as it comes. and not thinking that just because i'm not drinking everything is going to be fine, because it isn't. anyway, that is about all i have to say, but congratulations, and it is one day at a time. if you can get through each day, the next day comes, and there you are. guest: thank you. you are absolutely right. you know, it is a constant, daily reminder of working on this, and your life does get better. for me, staying active in the program helps me live my life a day at a time. a good example of that was when the pandemic happened. we did not know when the end was. we didn't know what the end was. i was mayor of boston and i was thinking to myself, i cannot worry about tomorrow. this is life.

if people can get in this mindset, do the best you can today and worry about tomorrow, tomorrow, and when the day comes, just a day at a time. that is how i have left my life in a lot of different ways now. the program has been laid out and i live my life that way. not just by staying away from the drink every day. host: to what degree is it a struggle today versus when you started recovery? guest: you know, i have been blessed. it is just another day, you know what i mean? back when i started i'm like, how my going to do this the rest of my life? that was my mindset. and you realize it is a day at a time. when you get that understanding you don't think about how hard it was or how easy was or what it was. host: how did your family react when you started recovery? guest: it was positive. my mother was happy.

we have a lot of recovery in our family. half of our family is in recovery, the other half might be. when you get into recovery it is just such a relief in the family in some of different ways. what joanne says is hard. you have an active person in your family that you love that cannot see that yet, cannot see that people love him or her, you know, it is sad to watch and you just pray that their loved ones find their way into recovery at some point. host: john is in michigan. go ahead. caller: good morning. i wanted to introduce something different that often times is overlooked. relating to this idea that there is always something wrong with us and we need to go to a formal program to fix us. i discovered a book -- i stopped

drinking six years ago. i never really could get into the idea that there is something inherently wrong, what i knew there was, you know? i found a book that was called "the easy way to stop drinking" by alan carr. it would give somebody another avenue to learn all of the bad things about drinking in a very funny way. he starts out the book by saying, don't stop drinking until you finish this book. that was a hook for me. i just thought i should introduce another consideration. how do you feel? in my mind i don't feel there is something wrong with me. i still play hockey on fridays and i'm out talking with the guys after everybody drinking a lot of beer, and it does not phase me anymore. i have completely eliminated this bad thing from my life.

i guess just share with me your life about how others could consider that kind of thinking. guest: first of all, thank you for sharing that. there is a lot of different pathways into recovery. some people go to detox. one of the callers talked about going to aa. some people might read a book. some people might do different things. i think it is important, whatever the pathway into recovery is. i mentioned about the safe consumption sites. i think everyone is built different. some people don't love going to aa. i particularly liked going to aa. it grounds me and i love that. i suggest everyone who is in recovery give it a chance, because you are surrounded by people who have gone through whatever you're going through at that particular moment. i think that is important. i think that when you stop drinking, you play hockey, you

said, and hang out with the guys afterwards. there are nights when you take off and they might stay there drinking. we don't put ourselves in harm's way. if you are drinking wine, it doesn't bother me. host: it is coffee. [laughter] guest: if i am out and -- i don't want to get uncomfortable, i will just leave. you just don't put yourself in situations, especially in early sobriety, that might harm you. host: patrick is in new hampshire. thanks for calling. caller: hi. i'm 35. i live in new hampshire. i started on the purdue pharmaceuticals, the oxycontin there, when i was 20. i have been eight years sober, and then i started drinking, because that was something that was legal at the time. and i was on probation, so i started drinking. no, my whole family was

alcoholics. -3.5 years sober now from alcohol -- i have been 3.5 years sober now from alcohol. i wanted to say a couple of things. the lady that called that said she should talk about it with her employer, i want some people to take caution, because it is something i am open with. i am open about my addiction and i have no problems sharing it, and she probably doesn't. it seems like she wants to share her story and it is good for her to talk about it. but a lot of people will talk behind your back, use it negatively against you, so be careful about that. the last thing i wanted to say is, go bruins. hopefully they start swayman tonight. i have no insurance right now and it cost me $150 to go see my suboxone doctor. i know there is a lot of people out there struggling with no insurance too, and i just wanted

to say you are doing a great job. i am a republican, but you give me lots of hope and you are something i could support in the future. i like the way you talk about your addiction and how you overcame it. you are a hero to a lot of people. thanks, marty. i appreciate you. guest: i appreciate that. i'm not a hero. the people that came before me, they are our heroes. host: he talked about suboxone, and there is an argument about methadone. guest: again, i have come full circle on that. when i first got sober and got elected to the house of representatives i thought abstinence was the best way. you know, just stop everything and rough it out. suboxone, if it is used the way it is prescribed, methadone is used the way it is prescribed, and you can work through it and you don't pick up heroin, then it works.

i am completely full circle on that as well. i think people will find the methadone clinic and take the picture of the person nodding out. they don't take the picture of the 300 other people who got their prescription, ticket, went to work as lawyers, whatever it might be, in offices. no one is showing that picture in the front page of the newspaper. and i think those medicines can be used in a good way. i would like to see a recovery program with them. the one thing i get concerned about some of this is that they are supposed to be -- there is supposed to be a counselor with this stuff. i'm times there is not enough clinical psychologists to work with the person taking these medicines to get off drugs. but if you are not taking heroin and shooting suboxone, god bless you. guest: host: what do you think about the legalization of marijuana? guest: i get concerned.

i think it is a slippery slope. when i was the state rep i had the same people that legalized marijuana came in my office and wanted to decriminalize marijuana. and i asked them to show me the amount of people in prison for an ounce or less of marijuana. just give me one person. then that passed, and it was, medical marijuana. we are only going to go medical marijuana for these patients who need treatment. even though it was already on the books. now you have some places in the country trying to legalize opiates. i get concerned about that. i get concerned about where we are headed there. host: let's hear from amy. amy joins us from new york, in clifton park. caller: good morning. it's nice to be able to speak with you. i wanted to share my experience a little bit, because i'm actually a therapist and i worked in substance abuse counseling for around five years

, shortly after i got my masters degree. and what i really saw as being a huge barrier to care for people was health insurance. i am a big believer in single-payer health care, and i really think the u.s. desperately needs that, because i saw a lot of people who really did want to get sober and they wanted to do better, and they wanted to do better for themselves, but they were having a hard time because they had plans with unaffordable co-pays, or they could not come in as often as they needed to because they could not afford the co-pay. for some people, they have a very hard time navigating the insurance system. they were not sure what to sign up for, whether or not coverage was available. a lot of times it buried about what they could apply for, what they did -- it varied about what

they could apply for, what they did qualify for. it was frustrating for me to see as well, because there was not much i could do about it. i don't work for insurance companies. but that was the main thing i wanted to say. the other thing i think would be very helpful would be more focus on harm reduction, which includes some things such as safe injection facilities. the one thing i earned early -- learned early on is you cannot force anyone to be sober. you can set consequences for them if they are not sober, but it is up to them to whether or not those consequences matter to them. host: amy in new york. thank you. guest: amy satellite. on the insurance side of it, i'm not sure single-payer fixes the problem. i think it is a bigger issue of mandating insurance companies. when amy talked about harm reduction facilities, i didn't

mention, drug courts, if they are done properly. we have a lot of people in prison because they are alcoholics and addicts. when they would not have committed the crime -- i'm not talking about serious crime, other crime. so, having drug courts with good supervision and programming. we need that. you have all of these programs out there and a judge gives a young person or somebody, you know, you are either going to go to jail or treatment, what you want? nine out of 10 times people are going to take the treatment. if they go and have a bad experience they are not getting what they need. host: james in florida, you are on with marty walsh. morning. caller: i have one thing to bring up. i have a problem with people always saying drugs and alcohol. alcohol is a drug, as far as i'm concerned.

it is a case of, you might as well be saying drugs and heroin. and i think it puts a disconnect there for a lot of people. well, i'm not doing drugs, i'm just drinking or something. and he grabs them. guest: you're right. when i say drugs and alcohol, you think about recovery programs. for the drugs. it is drugs and alcohol. i think alcohol is a drug. alcohol, as i mentioned earlier, i actually don't have the number in front of me, but i think alcohol dance are higher than opioid deaths. host: where are you with the idea of drug manufacturers or alcohol manufacturers, whoever ultimately becomes addicted to these things, paying up as far as recovery goes? guest: we mentioned this company once already, purdue pharma. i remember them having -- i remember having them in my offices as a state rep. it enraged me and lots of

people, what they got away with, knowing what they were doing. you think about advertising for alcohol or marijuana now, when you put -- would you put an advertisement on a train? you are targeting young people. you don't have to put a fancy thing up there for alcohol for a 25-year-old, you are targeting younger people. we have to be sensitive to all of that. in some of these cases these companies who are responsible for the devastation should be paying some money into fix that devastation. host: let's take one more call. this will be from cliff in texas. caller: hello, mr. mayor. i think we have a common friend with dan ray. guest: oh yeah, ok. caller: yes sir. met him through ralph carey. dan is a good friend.

i have been a mental health advocate for 25 years, and i lead a life of addiction, basically. i won the davis cup twice. are there and and i roomed together. when i started to decline, i took up hole and became basically an alcoholic, quit that cold turkey. i guess what i'm saying, and i'm asking, do you think besides drugs, is that a life like i had, high-low. i haven't tied a tennis match yet. i either won or i lost. do you think that can change your brain chemistry and make you more predisposed to seeking some other kind of relief? the other thing, i quit it cold turkey, and then i came down with covid four years ago and

you probably know, it doesn't allow to you sleep. it gives you insomnia. i had been on ambien for 25 years and never abused it, but i started abusing it, and i had to own it. i developed the long haul, i had in bed 18 hours a day. until about a year ago. but i developed an ambien addiction, and i had to own it. i looked at my sister and i said i'm an addict. i guess what i'm saying is, with mental health, you can't help people that have a mental illness unless they're willing to own it and they're willing to seek good help. does your brain reset back to normal if you get into good recovery? host: thank you. guest: i don't know resets into normal, but it certainly gets to normal. i don't know if you're ever fully normal. it helps you think about moving forward. you brought up an interesting point, cliff, when you talked about being an athlete. whether you're military or athlete, your life is structured

up until a certain point. when your career is over, whether you're in the military or you're an athlete, whatever profession you're in, sometimes there's empty space there, and you're too busy or too regimented or too disciplined, and that can be another opportunity that people put their guy down and they pick up drinking, thinking that it turns into alcohol might always have been there, but it comes right out. host: let's take one more feel. virginia, hello. caller: hi, thank you for taking my call. i want to say it takes people, like your guest today, to talk about this issue, and thank you, c-span, for addressing this epidemic that is in our society. and it's a disease. i am a member of naranon, which is a program for people who have a dear one in their life who's struggling with addiction, to

narcotics. from there, i have gone to a.c.a. but anyway, i want to emphasize that this 12-step program don't have any fees. if anyone wants to, it's a wonderful program, not religious, and it's a disease, but it's all kinds of people from different class and gender and backgrounds, it doesn't matter. and the and the sickness spreads to people who are around the attics. >> guest: a great commercial. you're right. twelve-step program, when you walk into whether you're looking for help yourself or are loop for a loved one most times people don't know. you walk in, get a cup of coffee, water whatever sit down and you don't, there's the money to it.

it's o just, actually what of for help.es you go a lot of people are intimidated when you walk in those doors. my advice is and i recall the calls and today knows this, when you cross that threshold for life is, to be completely changed in thely positive. if you're struggling out there today, a lot of people do because they don't know where to turn, loved ones, there's resources out there for you to understand now to live with your loved one, how to do with your loved one butso also i try to encourage the person to get help.. it's up to the individual. if the individual is not willing but there's always going to be a moment in time when that individual might be willing, even for five minutes. >> host: marty walsh served in the biden administration as a former secretary of laborhe ands exceed director of the national hockey league players association joining us for the first time the "washington post." thank you so much. >> guest: discipline great..as i think this is really important. >> host: thank you very much. >> today hearing to examine

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