breaking news from all over the place. >> bill: we said it was 8. the judge apparently added wrong. >> dana: it's 9. >> bill: something happened. >> dana: it's 9,000. >> bill: there was a correction issued from the judge. i'm bill hemmer, she is dana perino. here is the latest f columbia university now on lockdown restricting access tote main campus an anti-israeli activists duke took over the dean's building occupy hamilton hall. now they refuse to leave until the school meets their demands and grants am amnesty and they have big demands, too. moments ago trump going into court scolded the protesters before day nine. watch. >> the biden protests going on horrible caused by him because he can't put two sentences together. is he going to get out and make a statement because the colleges are being overrun in this

country, the anti-semitism, all of the problems going on. they ever being overrun. never seen anything like it. ran because of charlottesville. if the people that know cheacialtsville, when you extend the statement it's a big hoax what they say was said. and they understand that. and charlottesville is peanuts compared to what you are looking at now. this whole country is up in arms. breaking into colleges, knocking the hell out of columbia university. they took over. i know the building very well. they took over a building. that is a big deal. >> bill: welcome to our team fox conch right now. eric shawn keeping tabs on the trial. griff jenkins reports at george washington university in d.c. and jonathan turley has legal reaction to all of this and where we might be headed, next. first though, top of the hour. and top of the news with bryan llenas who has been at columbia university since, i think, 4:00 this morning. bryan, bring us up to date at

10:00 eastern time now. hello. >> bryan: bill, good morning. 10:00 eastern, some 10 hours since those students went into hamilton hall, stormed in and have occupied it. we have still not heard specifically from the president of the university or officially from the university about how they plan on getting those students out of hamilton hall, what we have heard from them is a plan to limit access to the main campus just days before final exams. that is what we are seeing here. the only people allowed on campus right now are those students who have housing on this main campus and essential personnel, whoever they deem to be essential. now, look, this is a campus with the main library and places for people to study, dining halls and that's a difficult situation for folks who are trying to study and get to commencement on may 15th. i'll show you hamilton hall over here. this all began at about 12:30. the students stormed that building and they are still

inside. they say they will not leave that building until three major demands are met. one, the university divests from all things israel. two, they're transparent about the companies they are giving money. to say and three, probably at this point, most importantly, they want universal amnesty. they don't want to face any discipline or punishment for the encampment that's been in place here since april 17th. now, for breaking and entering into this building. there were some students earlier who explained the situation last night when these students went from the encampment and stormed the building, used rope and zip ties and tables and chairs to barricade themselves inside. take a listen. >> there was professional burglars who helped break into hamilton hall. and, again, there is no response from public safety. they were truly nowhere to be found. i also saw a student who was trying to prevent them from barricading, continuing to barricade the doors, and then he was essentially corralled by

another human chain of pro-palestinian protesters and basically lifted up and shoved out. and called a zionist. he was physically assaulted. >> the question now is whether or not the nypd will be called in by the university to go in. the last time that happened was april 18th, over 100 arrests on campus. the nypd earlier this morning said they are standing by, if the university needs them. that moment, bill and dana, when they were called in has been a flash point here at the university. arguably -- inarguably it has gotten worse since then. at this point the big question is what do you do with students who have broken in, occupied the situation, and now limiting access for these students to a campus that they pay good money for on final exam week. guys? >> dana: bryan, i have a question, when the video when you see them first breaking the glass and try to get into the room, there is a lot of media

standing on the other side of the door waiting to capture this shot. who is organizing that? who is that media? >> bryan: yeah, that's a great question. there are a lot of people right now with their own independent cameras. i think there is really good journalism happening from the columbia daily spectacle, the newspaper here as well. the other ones, i think, are part of protesters. they are documenting this stuff to put on social media. i mean, you know, they want people to see -- to see this. i think there is a real awareness here, dana, that what happens at columbia, the tone that's set here has had a real effect on encampments nationwide. no doubt that last night was orchestrated. they wanted people to see it. now the university has limited access for the media. we are now not allowed to be on campus, even during the hours which they have allowed us to be there which is 2:00 to 4:00 p.m. indefinitely blocking us from going on there. they say it's out of our safety. it has been frustrating to be out there since 4:00 a.m. and

not have been able with our own eyes to get to the front of the hamilton hall building where these students have occupied to try to get the sense of what is happening. >> bill: bryan, quick one from me. how many, as best you can tell, how many of those at hamilton hall or in these tents are students and how many of them are outsiders? >> bryan: if you take the language from the university, they have said in official staples that they know that many of those students they have identified many of the students that are in the encampment. the university has mentioned external factors but they have only mentioned those people when it comes to the protests that have been outside specifically. they haven't talked about necessarily how many agitators have come in and infiltrated. from my point of view, they continue to characterize these folks as students and students who have come in and protesters who have stormed the building, but we frankly do not know what percentage of those that are right now illegally broken into hamilton hall are students and what percentage of those have

found ways to break in from the street and are not students at this moment, bill. >> bill: interesting answer, right? we await that thank you, bryan. bryan llenas in columbia. on the southern end of manhattan in new york. eric shawn is outside the courthouse where apparently the judge has just threatened jail time for the former president if there is another violation of a gag order. eric, do i have that right? hello, again, to you. >> eric: yes, you exactly have that right. judge juan merchan looked at the former president and said that a punishment of incarceration could be imposed if the former president violates the judge's gag order. the judge juan merchan held the former president in contempt of court that just in the last 20 minutes and fine them $9,000. 9 grand. $1,000 each for nine different times that judge merchan ruled the former president has violated the judge's gag order

by attacking witnesses in the trial on truth social, as well as two times on the campaign website. that can go up even more by 4,000 because, on thursday, they are going to have a hearing on four more attempted violations, alleged violations of the gag order, when they have a hearing than -- on thursday. so, as it stands right now, potential threat of jail time for the former president, if he continues to attack witnesses and violate the judge's gag order. this morning, the former president arrived and he had some choice words for this trial, saying it should have never have been brought. for the first time we saw a family member accompany the defendant, eric trump, the former president wants middle son who is also an executive at the trump organization was there. first time a family member has sat here. the witness, back on the stand right now is gary farro, he was a senior managing director at first republic bank. it was farro who set up the show company for michael cohen that cohen used to pay off stormy

daniels, farro laying out the financial document trial for the jury that prosecutors say was made to hide the money that michael cohen funneled to stormy daniels to keep her quiet during the campaign so that testimony ongoing right now and the president did get some good news though, judge merchan said he will be able to attend his son barron's high school graduation on may 17th. there was some controversy on that. so a carrot and a stick from judge merchan to the former president today. back to you. >> bill: that will do it for this minute, right? eric, thank you, eric shawn in lower manhattan. >> dana: here on set with us is law professor jonathan turley, so good having you. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> dana: we have been waiting for gag order announcement we got it and president trump got it too, nine violations, $9,000. more to come. >> basically what we expected. they weren't asking for jail time. the threat was linger out there. the judge wanted to put this sword dangling over his head and the thread is getting thinner.

that's basically what the judge is saying. unfortunately, i don't think the judge has re-examined his order. i think it's poorly written. and i also think it's way too broad. and the inclusion of michael cohen in that order is absurd. i mean, you have someone who is making money campaigning against trump and attacking him on this trial and the judge is letting him speak but not for the president to respond. >> bill: here is the abc news headline on that. michael cohen cashed in on the trump trial with tiktok live streams and it could be a problem. we talked to the ladies last hour about that. do you see this as a problem and could that be reversed, perhaps, by this judge? >> perish the thought that cohen was not being entirely truthful when he said he would make no more comments. the fact is this is an individual that just recently hit by a judge saying that he is a serial perjurer, that he is gaming the system. this has been the long story of michael cohen which is a story of a legal train wreck. and i was a critic of his when he was still representing trump.

and his practice has always been thuggish and he has often had a serious problem with telling the truth. whether it's before congress or to the courts. he is accused of lying on the stand when he took his plea. and then he took the oath again and said yeah, i lied before, when i took the plea. how you could put that individual on the stand and take the oath is going to be really something to watch. if lightning doesn't strike the courthouse, i will be very surprised. >> dana: i want to talk to you about the campus protest. you are up here washington, d.c., at george washington university statue we can show you was wrapped in a palestinian flag last night. i want to get your sense of -- i understand what you have been saying about free speech and that there is a line. but, these students don't know that there's a line. do the administrators know that they are in a real fix here? >> i think that they do. >> dana: now they do? >> i don't see any evidence of taking concrete steps to resolve

it. the actual street outside -- these right next to my office. that's next to the law school. and the street, running along there, has also been taken over and the d.c. government hasn't done anything because in d.c. it pretends what you are protesting. and if you have the right subject, you can take over streets. if you don't, don't put a foot in the street. so, it's a rather conflicted standard. but, this is really what many of us have been facing on campuses for 20 years. the fact that they took a building over at columbia really embodies the problem. these students have been having their way on campuses for two decades. but, in the last 10 years, it's gotten to be incredible through cancel campaigns and the rest. but they have been told that they -- enabled in a sense. they have been told that, you know, the speech of others is harmful and you can keep others from speaking. one of the groups we're seeing out there is antifa, which is all over our campuses, including mine. that is, perhaps, the largest anti-free speech movement in our

history. antifa is a movement dedicated to anarchy. but it's also dedicated to fighting all forms of free speech. that's not free speech. that's one view and they're keeping jewish professors and students from even walking on the campus. >> bill: is that why columbia was reticent, reluctant or just resistant to taking action yesterday before it got worse? >> well, i think that this is going to be that moment where you have got to make a decision. you do need buildings if you are going to be a university. okay? now, you can either just surrender your campus and then have you go remote and let the students take the campus, or you can be an institution of higher education, and you can say enough. you know, we protect everyone's diversity of viewpoint. >> bill: but there's a reason why they did not say enough. why? >> look, these kids could very well go to rikers u. they are about to get an

education and and a half. they committed criminal trespass, property damage, possible assault, possible false imprisonment. they are running through the criminal code. and if this follows the past standard, they will probably drop those charges. but, if they don't. >> dana: right, won't the prosecutor in d.c. ignore it. >> or new york, yeah. if they don't, they will get a heck of an education because these are serious offenses. what we are witnessing in columbia, the breaking of the windows and breaking of the doors. those employees who said they are not allowed to leave, all of that is not speech. those are criminal acts. and they are usually charged. and so the irony here is that for a generation that grew up to fight privilege, the question is, will this be the ultimate expression of privilege where other people are charged but you're not? >> bill: well stated. thank you, sir. >> dana: thank you for being here. we appreciate it, jonathan. we have much more throughout the morning. on the two major developing stories that are unfolding

quickly. only a mile apart or so in the city. we will bring you more when we get right back. >> the most remarkable scene that i saw was someone smashing the windows of the doorway from -- of hamilton hall in with a hammer, almost like a scene from the shining. we feel alone on this campus. ♪ well done, viv. you got the presents, the balloons and the raptor cake. now, how about something to put a smile on your face? aspen dental provides complete, affordable care with dentists and labs in one place

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>> bill: get you more information inside the trump trial in a moment. want to take you back to august of 2022. less than two years now. this is where it all began with the fbi raiding mar-a-lago. what we have done here on this graphic is show you the yellow line. that's the fox news approval rating for donald trump during all of this, okay? so back then it was at 42%. let's move along quickly here. you have the indictment in the new york case here in the trump matter here. you got another indictment in the dox docs trial moved to mi.

dipped to 39%. that was august of 2023. then got the indictment again. the indictment in the georgia election case down in fulton county, you see where it starts to particu ticks back up to 43%. and monster ruling against trump with the business fraud case in new york. 454 million. you also had that monster ruling against him e. jean carroll. 83 million. you had a couple states like maine and colorado trying to overturn and kick trump off the ballot. that was overturned by the u.s. supreme court to keep him on the ballot. and look where the trend line was, right? we started what were we? hang on, jimmy, we had 42% way back when. dana we are at 45% now for trump, right, on day nine inside the courtroom as i swing. back over to you. >> dana: some democrats who think how could this possibly be and it is what it is. >> bill: i could spend more time on that wall but i think it

could take the entire hour. >> dana: you would be uptown at columbia protests if you kept going. >> bill: i agree. we have been watching really a tale of two stories today in the same city. right? breaking news, former president trump back now inside that courtroom for the criminal trial. columbia university plunges into anarchy. no one knows where this goes, okay? mary katharine ham, outkick columnist and mark penn a columbia graduate and former clinton pollster. help us explain, you know, the ins and outs of that school. where do you -- how do you think they end this? >> technically, i'm a harvard graduate and almost graduate of columbia law school. just to set the record straight. so i have got some experience in this campuses. i don't know how this is going to end. these students are way out of touch with american public opinion is which hasn't moved even a point against israel. these demonstrations are not

doing any good. and people are really questioning the universities highly negative and highly questioning what is happening in our universities, and are they teaching these students to be divisive rather than to come together as a unified country. >> dana: listen to this protester being interviewed cnn. they want to protest but also be anonymous. >> we feel the need to continue to protest in this camp. is symbolizes like the start of the students encampments around the united states and also in the wider part of the world. we feel the need to protect this encampment and also, yeah, just. >> what's your name? >> sorry, i can't say. >> dana: they are being advised not to give their names, mary katharine.

>> i mean, this is more serious than being embarrassing but it is also just very embarrassing for both students and administration if you are so proud what you are looking for. i like many administrators stand up for the right of free speech even detestable speech i hate on campus. there should be wide latitude for that what there shunting be tolerance for stuff goes beyond speech, taking over buildings, breaking windows and impeding other students. when you won't stand up for that part of it. you actually disrupt other people's speech and freedom. the students who would actually like to learn. who would actually like to go to class. who would like to do something other than camp on the quad. you are preventing them from doing it. so we have to worry about their freedom as well. and this has gone so far beyond that without the administrators, i think, have sort of lost an understanding they end unafraid to do it just as students end up i guess afraid to or ashamed who

they are even though they think they are righteous in their cause. makes no sense to me. >> bill: if m.k. is right, mark, then they have misread the room, the administrators and teachers all together. >> the administrators don't know what to do in fairness one group wants to call the police. one want to let it go. once columbia failed to stop this sjp across the country. testing the limits everywhere. they didn't allow it in florida and stopped it right away. that's obviously yesterday they were supposed to have a dea deadline. how weak does the administration look. i don't think it could look any weaker and inadequate in terms of imagine if skin heads took

over howard university how do jewish students feel not being able to go to class. it's one thing to have protest and another thing for your campus and your physical territory to be taken over: >> dana: mary katharine hammar tell me about the great lakes. we did get a statement from the deputy press secretary andrew bates today saying they condemn this in the strongest possible terms. but last week the response has been weak and slow as the administration's response -- or the administration at the college has been weak and slow. as mark knows i appreciate the white house laying down some admonishment here. if it were the clan taking over howard we would hear how

vociferously how speech is we are not hearing about that. mark also university of florida and university ever georgia had very clear rules about what was speech and what was not. especially university of florida says this is what we welcome on campus. here are the things we don't tolerate. there will be consequences it turns out when there are consequences we get less of that behavior. columbia the ship has sailed there and they don't know how to get it back because they never had those original principles. shout-out to the university of chicago who is pretty good on this as well. >> bill: some schools have act and some have not. seen the results of those who have not. m.k. thanks for coming on and marc. thank you for coming on. we will get right next time. harvard grad, almost a columbia grad, correct? [no response] >> ha i also didn't graduate with columbia law so i'm with

you, mark. >> bill: thank you, guys. the house speaker, mike johnson, is now talking on capitol hill? so let's dip into this. make contracts with him because they can't get, liquified natural gas from the u.s. they desperately need it. they want it. and we are making the decision through joe biden, joe biden has made the decision that he will hamper our own economy and energy production. why? because he is appeasing radical environmentalist activists in his party. this appeasement strategy isn't working. is not working on the world stage when you appease iran and criticize israel it, should be the other way around. it is not working when you appease radical activists on these issues and deny the basic facts what is good for the american people. it's time for change. and we're going to continue to call it out. we are going to continue to pursue legislation. continue to pursue the support of our small businesses as as chairman williams said. the lifeblood of the u.s. economy is also small business. 75% of jobs provided by them. and they are being crushed by

regulations from out of control agencies. we are going to be working on every one of these things through the house republican majority, showing the american people what we are for and drawing a contrast so they could see clearly what our side is for. what the republican party stands for and what the other side does. with that i will take a few questions. >> mr. speaker. >> right here. >> mr. speaker, thank you, announce they would vote to table a motion to vacate effectively taking your job from you. what is your reaction? >> first i have heard of it. look, i have to do my job. we have to do what we believe to be the right thing. what the country needs right now is a functioning congress. they need a congress that works well, works together and does not hamper its own ability to solve these problems. and so we saw what happened with the motion to vacated last time. congress was closed for three weeks. no one can afford for that to happen. and, you know, we need people who are -- who are serious about the job here to continue to do that job and get it done. so, you know, i have who do what

i believe is right every day and let the chips fall where they may. you have all heard me say that many times. >> did you have any conversations with leader jeffries either directly or through emissary national security came to the floor about a possibility like this where you would receive democratic support if the motion to vacate came up? >> no, no. i have -- was laser-focused on getting the supplemental done. i have had colleagues from both parties come up to me on the floor, of course, and say we won't stand for this. we are not going to shut the government down and all that, shut the house down. of course, you know, i have acknowledged that but i have not requested assistance from anyone. i have not focused on that at all. i have focused on getting the job done and getting the legislation done. there is no deals at all. >> would you be comfortable speaker by having the support of democrats. because the democratic support? >> listen, i am. >> bill: we wanted to drop in on that and apparently reiterating his calls for president of

columbia university resign. did he that last week and roundly met with, i would say, some very enthusiastic students who were waiting for him to attend there. and, also, condemns discrimination based on religion. he has said that repeatedly. i want to drop in and get a flavor for what he is talking about today giving of given the events we have watched in new york. >> dana: stay with us, breaking conch of two stories unfolding simultaneously here in new york city it rolls on. in t he nineties anymore. and when the stock market crashes and it does from time to time, our clients are protected against losses. literally, they go up with the market, lock in their gains, and when the market goes down, they don't lose anything. we keep it simple. our clients earn in a reasonable rate of return and they don't lose money. if you have at least $100,000 to invest, get your investor's guide and see if it's right for you. (restaurant noise)

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>> griff: hey, bill, good morning to you. it's the sixth day of protest here in g.w. let me show you something though. if i just look down the street, the protests and the tents have spread out into the street on eighth street between 21st and 20th street. that's what jonathan turley was talking to you guys about. we just spoke with a g.w. staffer that's upset that the street is being blocked. let me show you around and give you a little bit of a look. there is about 70 or so tents set out here. the university yard, bill, is beyond that, and what you are looking at here in the last 15 minutes a group of catholics have shown up. catholics say cease-fire now. they are standing on the sidewalk here at the university yard. you can see here in the center george washington statue here. sort of the centerpiece of the university draped in a palestinian flag with a keffiyeh. it's been peaceful. we haven't seen the violent protests we have seen in other places like columbia.

but we talked to a student sabrina, a g.w. student here that says she believes that it is the faculty here at g.w. that's actually also playing a part of driving. this listen here. >> it really stems from the faculty. that is the root of this problem. they are indoctrinating kids with anti-israel lies and hate and this is where the problem starts and it has to end with that problem, too. meanwhile peaceful hear, no plans to move niece students any time soons. monitor this one and also some protests 90 miles north in philadelphia and ninth miles south in richmond, bill? >> bill: griff general bins back to you with developments from g.w. thank you, griff. >> new york criminal trial as a scam. second week of his testimony begins this morning. will scharf is an attorney for president trump. also a candidate to become missouri's attorney general. will, great to have you here this morning.

breaking news from the court was something we have been waiting for for a while, which was how the judge would rule on these gag orders. some have said, including lawyers here have appeared here that the gag orders were so vague that it didn't make sense and it was a violation of the president's constitutional right to first amendment and free speech. and, yet, now he was guilty, i guess, by the judge nine out of 10 of these charges and having to pay $9,000 and possibly more to come. your thoughts on all that? >> yeah, look, this gag order imposed by judge merchan in this case was wildly unconstitutional. it's deeply violative of president trump's rights. constitutional prior restraint. relies on unconstitutional heckler's veto theory. i could go on and on and on. it goes to show how outrageous these proceedings are and it also goes to show, i believe, how all of this really is rooted in a conspiracy to interfere with the 2024 election.

president trump is the leading candidate for president in the country, and he's not able to speak out freely about issues of tremendous national importance, about the fairness of the legal processes being leveled against him that should offend americans of all political stripes. >> bill: it may not be over. apparently another ruling on thursday of this week on at least four other charges of violating a gag order. the judge apparently in court today said he will put him behind bars if he doesn't stop. rikers reposting things another people said that's deeply osceola. it's offensive to principles 6 justice and should be offensive to all americans. this is just getting completely out-of-control. and, again, what we're dealing with here is a wildly unconstitutional gag order. we have taken that issue up to the new york appellate division.

we certainly hope for some clarity from them about the actual scope of this gag order because, as you have said. its word something incredibly vague and chills more speech than it covers. this is really unfortunate situation playing out in court. and at the end of the day, it's a distraction from the fact that this trial itself should never have occurred because president trump did absolutely nothing wrong. >> dana: last friday you said that alvin bragg, the prosecutor, is going to have major egg on his face here. any more for our viewers on that? >> look, i think as all of these witnesses have testified, what we're seeing from alvin bragg's office is a smoke and mirrors campaign that, they don't have the facts to prove that president trump violated the law because president trump did nothing wrong. so, they are trying to just pollute the environment with as much smoke from unrelated incidents from things that happened years and years ago. they are trying to pollute the environment to the extent possible in the hope that the

jury sees all that smoke and assumes that there is fire. i believe that if the jury is able to go into that jury room in a fair and impartial way, if they are able to far fairly view the evidence that we believe will be developed over the course of this trial, they will have no alternative but to acquit president trump because, again, did he nothing wrong here. and there was no crime here. >> bill: will sharp, thank you for coming back. two big stories we are watching and they continue right after this. ♪ arates on your credit cards lately? get ready for a shock. the rate on credit cards is now over 22%. if you want to save hundreds of dollars every month, pay off the balances on your high rate cards with a lower rate va home loan from newday usa. and get the financial peace of mind every veteran deserves. no one takes care of veterans like newday usa.

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>> bill: still we got some more action on the hill. this is the education secretary come out magill cardona amid the ongoing college protests. he says he does not have staff

at columbia right now but that there is an investigation into anti-semitism. he repeatedly condemned anti-semitism on college campuses and kayleigh mcenany joins us now. i have to reflex a little bit about what the white house said an hour ago, kayleigh, forcefully taking over buildings is not peaceful. it's wrong. and hate speech has no place in america. end quote. >> interesting something happened on your airways at 9:30 the former president got up and said president biden can't put two words together. we need a statement from president biden. moments later, minutes later, we get a statement from andrew bates. now, maybe it was in the works. but, you look like you have a former president who is leading on this issue. he made a statement. we get the deputy press secretary coming out with this too little beings too late. karine jean-pierre said we condemn anti-semitism, great. when asked about follow-up, should the columbia president resign? what do you think about the arrest at u.t. she continually

uses the phrase i cannot speak to that the condemnation is good. we need stronger statements. andrew bates, great for putting this out. now let's hear from the president of the united states at a critical moment. >> dana: he has had multiple opportunities goat on camera. in fact, you don't have to have an opportunity ready made, as the president of the united states you can make one. can you say i'm going to give a statement today meet threw at 1:00. he decides thought to do it. this is a montage of squad members. describing the protests as they would like them to be but that it's not accurate. watch. >> it is especially important that we remember the power of young people shaping this country today of all days as we once again witness the leadership of those peaceful student-lead protests on campus, like columbia, yale, berkeley and many others. >> i just wanted to see and make sure that, um, you know, that's being -- that we are seeing from the young people that it is

peaceful. that they want the issue to be -- some of the demands they are making. >> it's very important for people to be able to have the right to protest nonviolently. they are peaceful protests. and to continue to support free speech. >> dana: that turned out not to be the case. the other person you have not heard from here in new york is a jewish man, leader of the senate, chuck schumer. why has the cat have his tongue. >> there is clearly equivocating because of political rationale here. the first statement you played there from alexandria ocasio-cortez moments later president biden got up after her and said i praise the congresswoman from new york. i have learned for a long time to listen to her. this is political equivocation. yes, i stand with the jewish people. yes, i stand against anti-semitism, but i see the poll numbers among young people. but let's be clear what's happening here. these are not peaceful protests. we see that with the vandalism. we see that with the breaking of windows. we see that with george washington university when "new york post" reports

there was a final solution signed calling for the termination of the jewish people. this is hideous going back to the days of the holocaust. here we are again. we need leadership. >> bill: one thing that's breaking right now john kirby apparently is taking questions on this. one thing we were curious about earlier, take columbia as one example. how many of them are students and how many of them are outside agitators? kirby was asked about that. he said i'm not aware of any evidence either in the intelligence world or through law enforcement about bad actors as described. so, but they are watching these protests with concern. i got to think, you know, in this mess, you are seeing a lot of people who are not necessarily enrolled at places like columbia. >> bill, he needs evidence go talk to glenn youngkin who talked about nonparticipants. adams. ut, uf all outside agitators. talk to people on the ground. >> bill: got it. >> dana: thank you, kayleigh, see you at noon on outnumbered. >> yes.

>> dana: looking at the encampments at george washington university. kayleigh was talking about those. they blocked off an entire street and apparently this isma allowed. we'll be right back. at. that produce lower emissions that lead to higher test scores? or that propane can cut your energy costs at home? it powers big jobs and small ones too. from hospitals to hospitality, people rely on propane-an energy source that's affordable, plentiful, and environmentally friendly for everyone. get the facts at propane.com/now. they get it. they know how it works. more importantly, it works for them. i don't have any anxiety about money anymore. i don't have to worry about a mortgage payment every month. it allowed me to live in my home and not have to make payments. linda, dinah, joanne, very different people...

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♪ >> dana: fox news alert. welcome back. president trump is in recess at the moment. week two of testimony is underway. and this is, you know, donald trump's criminal trial in new york judge shugerman is a professor at george washington university. it's great to have you here. i have read your case with great interest last week your op-ed in the "new york times." because you said initially you thought this case was an embarrassment but now you think it's an historic mistake. that was so telling to me. is he confirming instincts might have. you as a law professor, you have written that and had the feedback from it. how's that going and have you changed your mind at all? >> i think it's remarkable that a year after the indictment we're still trying to figure out what is the legal basis? what is the underlying crime

here. i think it's become clear that it's a federal election filing crime. and the reason why i wrote a year ago that it was a legal embarrassment and the reason why i say it's historical mistake now is we are seeing the degeneration of the rule of law escalating from both sides. trump runs on lock her up. and now we are seeing the other side trying to lock him up. and i'm now concerned that state prosecutors who are partisan elected officials, alvin bragg ran for office saying that he would hole trump accountable and i'm worried about the state prosecutors using federal election law to criminalize political conduct and civil violations that the doj might decline to prosecute like this one really interesting. letitia james and fani willis in a similar category? >> i would not put them in the same category.

i would put them in a category of a lot of prosecutors where i think around the country prosecutors running for office with the electorate and running for party nominations creates a certain political pressure to do things outside the bounds of the law. i think this is so rampant that i'm concerned about both sides. >> dana: last question you are a professor so i assume you have students. what's your student's reaction to this. >> my students have been very open to this and have been -- i think they were initially skeptic. as i shared the op-ed in drafts, at least the students who came to talk to me about it wanted to ask questions with an open mind. so, at least in this experience, i'm finding our campus at boston university to be really serious about the rule of law.

>> dana: jed sue gearman you wrote this piece. i thought the case against trump is legal embarrassment now i think it's historic mistake. i read it with great interest. it's a pleasure to meet you. thank you for coming on the show. >> thanks for having me. >> bill: makes a relevant point talking with mccarthy or turley or all the folks we have had on today about how injurious legal system how americans on the outside look at it. if you are in a 50/50 country, right? 50% of you support donald trump and 50% of you support joe biden. you are going to look at this trial and close to 50% of you say he is getting a raw deal. that's not good for what that gentleman is talking about from boston university. >> dana: what realizing right now is that way more than a majority are looking at this and going trump is getting a raw deal on this case in new york the hush money trial. it is back firing on them big time. of course we shall see. and we will be back again tomorrow but in the meantime the faulkner focus is next. here she is. ♪ >> harris: we begin with breaking news former president trump's historic new york criminal trial is back in session today; however, at this point, they are on