this is the saturday five. welcome to the saturday five. now prime minister rishi sunak has been lashing out at sick britain this week. but there's none of that nonsense around these parts. the ever reliable albie amankona and benjamin butterworth are by my side as even butterworth are by my side as ever, mainly because they rarely have anything better to do on a saturday night. ben leo has been signed off after completing his mission to be on television more than the adverts, but political commentator conor tomlinson has gladly stepped into his place. been passed fit and joins us now. and the brilliant comedian diane spencer, fudge extraordinaire, complete the line up. she usually spends her saturdays being abused by drunken men on the comedy circuit, so it's business as usual for her here tonight . and usual for her here tonight. and tonight we're debating kemi badenoch speech on imperialism, rishi sunak's welfare reforms and asking if you should be allowed to have street lights

turned to down suit your individual preference. we'll have a demonstration in this very studio. and of course, we want to know your views as well. plus all of your questions for our ask the five segment. so get them in now to gbnews.com forward slash your c. but before we start tearing each other apart it's time for your saturday night news with sophia wenzler . wenzler. >> thanks, darren. good evening. i'm sophia wenzler in the gb newsroom. your top story this houn newsroom. your top story this hour. the policing minister will meet the met police commissioner in the next week to discuss concerns about an officer's comments directed at an anti—semitism campaigner. gideon falter was stopped from crossing a road near a pro—palestinian march by the officer, who described him as quite openly jewish. the force has since apologised . twice today, apologised. twice today, pro—israel demonstrators held a

peaceful counter—protest in central london called enough is enough.the central london called enough is enough. the group says hatred has no place on the streets of the capital. >> can't walk through central london with a yarmulke on your head. no signs of any israeli flag or support for israel, or any views on on what may be going on in the middle east. but if you're not allowed to walk across the street in central london because you are openly jewish, then it's time for the government to act. >> it'sjust government to act. >> it's just sad that it's that it has come to this, that it's now regarded as not completely safe for jewish people to walk in the streets of their own own own city and not only is it distressing and vile as their views are, the distressing thing, it's also becoming becoming normalised . becoming normalised. >> meanwhile, pro—palestinian protesters have been marching in sheffield demanding a ceasefire in gaza . they're accusing israel in gaza. they're accusing israel of using famine as a weapon of war, and criticised the government for continuing to arm the country . the palestine the country. the palestine solidarity campaign also took

aim at barclays bank, urging it to sever ties with companies which supply weapons and military equipment to israel . in military equipment to israel. in other news, musicians, politicians and campaigners are rallying in glasgow calling for another independence referendum. believe in scotland and pensioners for independence marched from kelvin way to george square to hear from speakers including first minister humza yousaf . there minister humza yousaf. there were mixed feelings in the city, with a counter—protest calling for the country to remain in the united kingdom. sarah carter , we united kingdom. sarah carter, we want it back. >> thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> we've been we've been a colony for over 300 years. >> we get nothing back. everything's taken from us and goes goes south to object against the indy march. >> still going ahead because they haven't accepted our our vote in 2014. >> i think it's about ridiculous. i be honest, so that's why i'm here. but i'm really here for manana. so three

men who died in a car crash near a retail park in north—west london have been named by police. >> mohammed zaydani, mohammad ghazi and sohail zulfi . carr ghazi and sohail zulfi. carr died when their vehicle went through a car park fence and hit a footbridge. it happened last weekend and the men, who were in their early 20s, were pronounced dead at the scene. two other passengers were injured, but police say their condition is not life threatening. investigations into the cause of not life threatening. invecrash:ions into the cause of not life threatening. invecrash continue the cause of not life threatening. invecrash continue .he cause of not life threatening. invecrash continue . parents; of not life threatening. invecrash continue . parents and the crash continue. parents and their children have staged a demonstration in belfast over rising childcare costs. more than 1000 people. more than 1000 people carrying balloons, placards and prams took part, calling for an immediate support. unlike england, there is no scheme offering free childcare in northern ireland, but some tax credits are available. stormont politicians want to prioritise childcare, but a new strategy could cost

£400 million a year. they've requested a face to face talk with prime minister rishi sunak to ask for more funding. fire has caused significant damage to a historic pub in south west london. thick black smoke was seen rising from the grade two listed building in mitcham. 80 firefighters battled the blaze, which ripped through three floors and destroyed the roof of the derelict property . four men the derelict property. four men were treated at the scene. the cause of the fire is being investigated and a two minute silence has been held, honouring the english men and women who died serving the nation. hundreds of army and naval cadets took part in a march past the cenotaph in central london, marking 130 years of the royal society of saint george . some

society of saint george. some members of the public were there to celebrate the day . to celebrate the day. >> well, we're big military people, so it means a lot to come down and celebrate and be part of it all, really. >> it's obviously the patron saint of our country and obviously the old brigade, and it means something to me. >> we're englishers he's a painter's hatton of england. so we've got a market. scotland do it, wales do it. we've got to do it, wales do it. we've got to do it as well, and we've got to do it as well, and we've got to do it bigger and better. >> and for the latest stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. common shirts. now it's back to the saturday five. >> it's saturday night and you're with the saturday five. i'm darren grimes, and i can promise that you're in for a very lively two hours. let's crack on with tonight's first debate. which reprobate is going first? >> that would be me, darren

grimes. although i'm not a reprobate, i think i'm right on this one, actually. and as was the business and trade secretary, kemi badenoch earlier on this week, who got on the wrong side of the woke brigade when she said that britain's wealth and success didn't only come from colonialism and exploitation, but also came from the post glorious revolution reforms to the rule of law, property rights and the relative economic and political stability that came afterwards. the truth is, britain's success and wealth didn't only come from colonialism. now, that might not be a very fashionable thing to say at north london dinner parties, but actually the truth to britain's success is a lot more boring than going and conquering the world. it's about things like the climate, it's about things like abundance about things like the abundance of sheep, relative age, of sheep, the relative age, health and education of the population during the time of the industrial revolution, and of the post glorious of course, the post glorious revolution that kemi revolution reforms that kemi badenoch, the business secretary, mentioned her secretary, mentioned in her speech in the city of london earlier on this week. so i've

just got one question for kemi badenoch detractors, what is about? what is it about the truth that you don't like ? truth that you don't like? benjamin. you're a detractor of kemi badenoch . what is it about kemi badenoch. what is it about the truth that you don't like? >> i thought you were about to say, benjamin, you're a liar. what do you want to say about this? >> did you just say that part of our economic success is how many sheep we have? >> yes, yes. at the beginning of the industrial revolution, one of reasons of the reasons why the industrial revolution happened in in other in britain and not in other parts of northwest is parts of northwest europe, is because of the abundance of sheep in this sheep that we had in this country, which people had country, which meant people had a wool to spin. and one a lot of wool to spin. and one of inventions that kicked of the inventions that kicked off the industrial revolution was something the was something called the spinning jenny, which was something which allowed people to a much to basically spin wool in a much quicker amount of time. anyway, this quite boring. but this is quite boring. no, but the that , well, you the point is that, well, you said the amount of sheep in said it. the amount of sheep in britain one of the reasons britain was one of the reasons why industrial revolution why the industrial revolution happened other places. >> well, i think that logic, >> well, i think by that logic, wales should be much richer than london. is the london. if, if sheep is the secret of success, look, the

word would take an issue word only i would take an issue with, because the idea that we only have wealth because of colonialism clearly colonialism is clearly inaccurate, are inaccurate, because there are other i think the other things. but i think the suggestion that it wasn't a massive, a fundamental part of the way britain developed would be ridiculous. you know, the kind of countries we were colonising, the amount of resource were back to resource we were taking back to our country, which obviously our own country, which obviously included, know, slavery, included, you know, slavery, a huge beneficiary to for huge beneficiary to britain for a time. clearly, that was a long time. clearly, that was happening because of the huge economic benefits that gave us an unfair advantage. and so i do think that you see, you take some commonwealth countries that were were pillaged of resource and have struggled to this day because of that, while britain benefited massively from countries like india. >> let's get some tweets up. the guardian wrote an article about kemi badenoch speech earlier on this week, which was really over the top, and kemi actually responded to it, saying the hysterical, hysterical reaction by reading left to by the guardian reading left to my speech on how smart regulation creates growth is fascinating . i quote one of my

fascinating. i quote one of my favourite books, why nations fail. it explains how property rights and the rule of law created certainty for the industrial revolution. is there any that that you any part of that that you disagree with, benjamin, well, the law you know, we are the rule of law you know, we are a thousand years of democracy and relatively stable monarchy, and relatively stable monarchy, and i don't dispute that. that has had a huge effect on us, the fact that we're a resilient democracy. but we were also taking huge of resource, taking huge amounts of resource, which making life lot which was making life a lot easier for us. yeah. and i would just say one other thing. we have economic have fundamental economic problems country at the problems in this country at the moment. idea that moment. the idea that the business secretary using a business secretary is using a speech talk about whether we speech to talk about whether we got profit from colonialism or not, she really should be talking about the actual things that affect people on history. >> did you make of the >> what did you make of the business secretary speech? >> what did you make of the buswell, secretary speech? >> what did you make of the buswell, seciwonderingch? >> well, i'm wondering how ben can claim that can make the claim that we pinched benjamin. sorry, make the claim we pillaged all the claim that we pillaged all of resources . why were of these resources. why were they not being used the they not being used in the countries that existed in? countries that they existed in? why they just sort of why were they just sort of sitting in the not being sitting in the ground, not being put use like they were in

put to use like they were in england in the industrial revolution? was something revolution? was there something about of those about the culture of those places them places that made them economically less economically inferior and less entrepreneurial than the british empire, for example? >> verging on racist. >> and that's verging on racist. >> and that's verging on racist. >> that verging on racist? >> because you're talking about lots where lots of countries where non—white countries and seeming to weren't they weren't to say they weren't they weren't capable culture. >> don't me of racism on >> don't accuse me of racism on live television. you want live television. you don't want to do mate. to do that, mate. >> all the countries that we were weren't >> all the countries that we were countries, weren't >> all the countries that we were countries, were weren't >> all the countries that we were countries, were weren you white countries, were they? you know, australia, know, besides australia, where we australia, we dumped them on australia, besides america. >> america having lots them. >> america having lots of them. >> america having lots of them. >> what mean culture >> what did you mean by culture and economically inferior? >> didn't have a, >> well, they didn't have a, philosophy of property rights. they have one of they didn't have one of entrepreneurial ism. they didn't have one of the inalienable dignity of the individual. this is why we had to stop things like bride burnings, for example, over in india. so they didn't the superior didn't have the superior christian culture christian enterprising culture that we go. that there we go. >> got there in the end. hang >> we got there in the end. hang on, on. i think that comes on, hang on. i think that comes down the idea that you think down to the idea that you think we some kind of racial we have some kind of racial superior think that's superior city. i think that's what's heart. what's at the heart. >> you saying that i will >> you keep saying that i will sue you.

>> oh, go for it. yeah, i will do won't be on do you know i won't be back on the show. >> i would actually, coal >> i would argue, actually, coal was a bigger part of our was a much bigger part of our economic output. right. and sugan economic output. right. and sugar, was involved in the sugar, which was involved in the trade you mentioned was a very it wasn't tiny, but it was a much smaller part of the economic makeup. it was white men, you know, like my grandfather who was sent down to mine coal when they were about, you know, children. so i don't buy this idea that britain is a country built on slavery. that's the reason the business secretary has to waste her time speaking about this crap. and i would call it that, is because people like you propagate this lie about our country. so it is entirely your fault. but it is right to talk about all the different factors that led to british success and wealth in the world. >> that does include colonialism and imperialism. it also includes coal. it also includes wool. it also includes climate. so why isn't it? we can't just have a reasonable discussion about it, diane.

>> oh, well, everybody loves to take and throw pies, but take sides and throw pies, but a few were thrown earlier on, i think. but the thing is, is that there is a lot of management that has happened. like i'm listening to this fabulous podcast about dictators and i've had colonel gaddafi in the car. and the point is, is that when he came into power, he had a lot of wealth in libya. and due to his mismanagement, of wealth in libya. and due to his mismanagement , that country his mismanagement, that country absolutely plummeted. and the rights of the citizens were completely stripped away. so there has been good management since that era , and good since that era, and good decisions have been made. good people have been sent to work in coal mines. and you can't just say it's i agree, you can't just say it's i agree, you can't just say it's i agree, you can't just say it's down to these things that happened 200 years ago when ihave that happened 200 years ago when i have heard about colonel gaddafi absolutely ruining his country. >> but can i just ask a question then, if you're saying that we didn't massively benefit from these countries, from the empire , why do you think we were doing

it? >> of course we massively benefited from it . i >> of course we massively benefited from it. i don't >> of course we massively benefited from it . i don't know benefited from it. i don't know if anyone disputing that. if anyone is disputing that. >> much the nature >> that's very much the nature of what you're saying. >> i didn't, no, no, >> no i didn't, no, no, no, i say imparted of cultural say we imparted lots of cultural benefits countries. benefits onto those countries. of a different of course, that's a different question. hang on, hang we question. hang on, hang on. we benefited of the benefited by the use of the resources that were sitting in the ground not used. but the ground not being used. but we also spend in the most expensive crusade expensive moral crusade in history, 1618. history, between 1607 and 1618. sorry, to abolish the sorry, 1807 1867, to abolish the slave so we did it at slave trade. so we did it at great cost. >> indeed. okay, right. who's going >> indeed. okay, right. who's goiigo then. >> go on then. >> go on then. >> it's colonel gaddafi >> oh, it's colonel gaddafi himself at this week. >> i've turned up for work, but some people won't be. and rishi sunak has been talking about those people. he wants to stop gps from being able to give you a sick note, because he thinks it's got far too easy to get one and take time off work that's fully paid. now, i think this is pretty nasty stuff. he actually went further and said, if you've not been in work for 12 months and had programme to and you've had a programme to try help you and it's not try and help you and it's not worked well, then you won't get any at all.

any benefits at all. which i think is terrifying and dickensian. some disability charities have said that this is nasty dangerous, and that nasty and dangerous, and that people with serious conditions, both physical both mental health and physical health, are going to struggle. indeed, today, the work and pensions secretary said that anxiety shouldn't be reason to anxiety shouldn't be a reason to be work . now. anxiety shouldn't be a reason to be work. now. i'm anxiety shouldn't be a reason to be work . now. i'm often be off work. now. i'm often anxious around darren. but i'm still here. do you think that this is a serious way to solve the problems, or is it not looking at the consequence of things like the nhs not functioning effectively so people are still off work rather than the root of it? well, absolutely. >> i think we should be serious about nhs fundamental nhs reform . i was brought . but, you know, i was brought up a mother on her own, up by a mother on her own, dragged up i think. dragged up. yes. and she , she, you know, was yes. and she, she, you know, was a recipient of benefits. so i don't bash the welfare state without any recognition i without any recognition that i myself haven't benefited from it. but i think that's a world away from being able to go to the department of work and pensions say, well, pensions and say, well, actually, snore at and

actually, i snore at night and therefore i do a full therefore i can't do a full day's work because actually my sleep impacted by the fact sleep is impacted by the fact that i snore or, oh, well, i get a bit. i'm a bit sad today, so i'm going to take a week off work. i'm sorry, but you know, we have we dealt with serious health care issues in the past without allowing people without actually allowing people to claim personal independence payments way you payments in the same way you would if you had spina bifida. for having been a bit sad . i for having been a bit sad. i think that's completely disproportionate. >> getting a gp note doesn't mean you're getting benefits. it means you're being paid, not means you're being paid, but not having to up to work after having to turn up to work after more than a week really is in of itself well, it's not itself a benefit. well, it's not costing state money, but costing the state money, but look, you think, alby, look, do you not think, alby, that given have massive that given we have massive problems the health service problems with the health service and economy, this and with the economy, that this is desperate tinkering to is pretty desperate tinkering to try be a bit populist at the try and be a bit populist at the last minute? >> well, think the issue is >> well, i think the issue is that the budget that is going to be spent on personal independence payments is projected almost 50. projected to grow by almost 50. and prime minister very and the prime minister very diligently my opinion, is diligently in my opinion, is thinking, well, obviously that

is something which is is not something which is affordable and we need to think of a way to make sure that bill doesn't much. i doesn't grow too much. so i think that rishi sunak think the plan that rishi sunak has up with, though has come up with, even though i appreciate it, sounds difficult to hear from him. it's very privileged, man privileged, a very wealthy man telling who might have telling people who might have things which things like depression, which i have, the way, or anxiety or have, by the way, or anxiety or other health illnesses , other mental health illnesses, is work can be good for is actually work can be good for you , not necessarily being you, not necessarily being signed off. work is the best thing for you when you have those conditions. i think that is a reasonable thing to say. i would say for me and for my depression, than seeing depression, other than seeing a therapist and being on antidepressants, the two things that have helped me the most have exercise and work. have been exercise and work. >> can i just point out if >> but can i just point out if you're in a depressive episode, which a serious thing, do you which is a serious thing, do you think workplace saying think your workplace saying no, you're not getting money you're not getting any money this have helped? no, this week would have helped? no, i think that's helpful i don't think that's helpful because that's basically what he's saying. >> it's helpful all the time. obviously, when people are at rock would not be rock bottom, it would not be appropriate them to to appropriate for them to go to work. but what i'm saying is it can prolong being at rock bottom

if not interacting with if you're not interacting with people, not people, you're not doing anything you're not anything and you're not going outside. you're not going outside. and if you're not going outside. and if you're not going out work, you're more likely out to work, you're more likely to doing of those things. out to work, you're more likely to i doing of those things. out to work, you're more likely to i think; of those things. out to work, you're more likely to i think that of those things. out to work, you're more likely to i think that taking;e things. out to work, you're more likely to i think that taking it things. out to work, you're more likely to i think that taking it out gs. out to work, you're more likely to i think that taking it out of >> i think that taking it out of the gps list of things to do, like provide sick notes, is actually a great idea , because actually a great idea, because it free the gps i mean it would free the gps up. i mean , they haven't said how they're going to pay for this other magical system that's he magical system that's and he hasn't said who else would give the note. the sick note. >> it seems not very well >> so it seems not very well thought through. >> do sort of that thought through. >> idea. sort of that thought through. >> idea. but sort of that thought through. >> idea. but ifort of that thought through. >> idea. but if you»f that thought through. >> idea. but if you sortat thought through. >> idea. but if you sort of initial idea. but if you sort of stop everybody going to work who's depression and who's got depression and anxiety? well, ever sorry anxiety? well, i'm ever so sorry my would shut. my industry would be shut. just i'm that's i'm full of nut bags. that's what i do . and, you know, i have what i do. and, you know, i have a very big panic attacks right before i go on stage. if i've got six stag dos and eight hindus in front of me, i'm there. we're all there , wheezing there. we're all there, wheezing in the background. but it is mental health is important, yes, but i do think that there is a victimhood culture that you must face up to and you must accept. some people are taking the

mickey and having too many mental health days when they actually don't need them. >> i have to say, i've only ever once had to go to a gp to get the sick note thing to be off work, and i was at how work, and i was amazed at how easy was. yes, i can't like easy it was. yes, i can't like she really didn't ask any questions and i was i mean, i was ill, you know, it was true. that's why i'd gone to a gp, but i how easy it i was stunned at how easy it was. and i've only had to ask. >> i've done that, connor. >> i've done that, connor. >> i've done that, connor. >> i think i've only taken one sick day in the last year. and like, outwardly it wasn't today, but, oh, like alvey. look, but, oh, like like alvey. look, i as a teenager i had depression as a teenager as and without work as well. and without hard work and exercise, wouldn't have and exercise, i wouldn't have dragged up. and frankly, and exercise, i wouldn't have ddo ged up. and frankly, and exercise, i wouldn't have ddo think up. and frankly, and exercise, i wouldn't have ddo think people p. and frankly, and exercise, i wouldn't have ddo think people need! frankly, and exercise, i wouldn't have ddo think people need to 'ankly, and exercise, i wouldn't have ddo think people need to taker, and exercise, i wouldn't have ddo think people need to take a i do think people need to take a more resilient attitude, because in pre—modern economies, when you welfare state, you didn't have a welfare state, if get out of bed in if you didn't get out of bed in the morning, you didn't eat and you think way. you need to think that way. >> i think resilience is important. >> yeah. building that within yourself. if much as you can, yourself. if as much as you can, and taking advantage of the helpful are out helpful things that are out there, going for there, like even going for a walk every just boost walk every day can just boost your mood, you know? yes >> but benjamin, surely you must

even we have a even accept that we have a victimhood culture this victimhood culture in this country. someone who likes no country. as someone who likes no on hierarchy of victimhood. on the hierarchy of victimhood. >> say that. >> no, i don't like to say that. i sick of right i mean, i'm sick of right wingers thinking a wingers thinking they're a victim everything. mean, victim for everything. i mean, it's ever talk about. it's all you ever talk about. quite frankly, i think the idea that it's left wing idea is that it's a left wing idea is ridiculous, but i just think that the problem here, the reason a massive reason we've had a massive increase the number people increase in the number of people who sick, who are long time sick, let alone more five days alone having more than five days off that's because off work. and that's because there's this huge backlog of the nhs. maybe got some nhs. so you've maybe got some people have serious mental people that have serious mental health that aren't people that have serious mental healthith. that aren't people that have serious mental healthith. moret aren't dealt with. but more importantly, got people dealt with. but more imp(havely, got people dealt with. but more imp(have a got people dealt with. but more imp(have a physical|ot people dealt with. but more imp(have a physical issue ople dealt with. but more imp(have a physical issue that that have a physical issue that then much worse and causes then gets much worse and causes much problems because much bigger problems because they by a doctor. they can't get seen by a doctor. and i think of i mean, it's easier said than done, but if a government were serious about the sickies, then the cost of sickies, then they'd be fix nhs and get be trying to fix the nhs and get people in and having people back in and having operations. is keir starmer operations. how is keir starmer going nhs? well, what going to fix the nhs? well, what labour and i totally agree labour said and i totally agree with it's what labour did with him. it's what labour did in when they cleared up. in 1997 when they cleared up. the last you lot left was the last mess you lot left was that all capacity that they will use all capacity in private sector and in the private sector and

they're going use money they're going to use state money to through the private to get you through the private sector capacity. to get you through the private sec state capacity. to get you through the private sec state money acity. to get you through the private sec state money from where? >> state money from where? >> state money from where? >> i'll be non—doms >> well, i'll be non—doms indeed. exactly. >> mile payment. >> mile per mile payment. >> mile per mile payment. >> can't pay per mile. >> you can't pay per mile. >> you can't pay per mile. >> but i think most people in this you'd this country, i think you'd struggle ask the viewers, struggle if we ask the viewers, you raise taxes, they you know, raise taxes, do they think, no, you've done enough of that. there's much that. so there's not much further we but the fact further we can go. but the fact is, i think most people would be happy with their tax money being used get hip used for someone to get the hip operation need used for someone to get the hip opa ation need used for someone to get the hip opa private need used for someone to get the hip opa private hospital. need in a private hospital. >> all right. let the >> all right. well let the viewers decide. but folks, still to come tonight. why is doctor hilary cass being for her hilary cass being abused for her landmark review? and landmark transgender review? and should individual citizens be able to get street lights turned down we'll down next up, though, we'll discuss humza backtrack discuss humza yousafs backtrack on greenhouse gas targets, rank hypocrisy sensible hypocrisy or sensible pragmatism. i know what i think you're with the saturday five live on

gb news. welcome back to the saturday

five as ever. thank you so much for all of your emails about tonight's topics john has written in. good evening. john. he says if we benefited from the industrial revolution, we are certainly lagging well behind. since then, have car since then, we have no car industry of our own . so should industry of our own. so should other support us? one other countries support us? one from someone called angry annie. oh, annie , who said there should oh, annie, who said there should be no pay when off sick other than statutory sick pay. trust me, if that was the case there would only be genuine sick off work. ssp rules should apply to all companies and including the government shouldn't pay any other money. >> now can i just say that the idea that someone you know shouldn't be allowed to pay their mortgage or their rent because they got sick for two weeks, i think it's pretty cruel. >> all right, that's angry. annie's coming for you now. it's time for our next debate, though. i'm going to kick off this one because, well, you know, i want to. and scotland's hapless humza useless. so that's

who i want to talk about. he's had quite the humdinger on net zero last year he was waxing lyrical about staying the course. he posted this on twitter.com. the uk government rolling back on their climate pledges is unforgivable . it's pledges is unforgivable. it's time for climate action and ambition . scotland will continue ambition. scotland will continue to show global leadership in the face of the climate crisis . the face of the climate crisis. the uk government is on the wrong side of history. i'd urge them to rethink. that was after rishi sunak said hang on a minute. i'd actually like to protect working class people a little bit here. the co—leader of humza's green party coalition said sunak's climate policy changes were profoundly worrying, accusing the tories of taking advantage of outright climate denial . that of outright climate denial. that old chestnut. and now guess what? the scottish government is to ditch its flagship target of reducing greenhouse gas emissions by 75% by 2030. you couldn't make it up, i say,

well, hang on a minute. does this mean humza useless is himself a climate denier? that's put in place profoundly worrying climate change, u—turns ? or is climate change, u—turns? or is he just a prized political pygmy forced to accept a cut of climate emissions of 75% in five years time? it's not only unnecessary, but profoundly punishing to scotland's people and its economy. >> i thought you was going to explode then that man makes my head want to bloody. >> you did a great william wallace impression. thank you very much. yes. i don't think i'd be welcome at today's snp rally. no independence in rally. no, no independence in glasgow. yes, exactly. yes. but benjamin butterworth, as a man who likes all things green despite flying around the world more than, you know, jeff bezos, do you actually think that humza yousaf is a hypocrite , i think yousaf is a hypocrite, i think the problem here is that humza yousaf , more than you know, yousaf, more than you know, sturgeon or salmond, seems to think that scotland is an independent country that can

dictate things like climate change policy and foreign affairs. you know, if they got their numbers wrong, it was their numbers wrong, it was their mistake on a political level, right? they have to act within the boundaries of what the government to do the uk government chooses to do and projections and all the uk government chooses to do and rest projections and all the uk government chooses to do and rest of projections and all the uk government chooses to do and rest of it. projections and all the uk government chooses to do and rest of it. so )jections and all the uk government chooses to do and rest of it. so iactions and all the uk government chooses to do and rest of it. so i kind|s and all the uk government chooses to do and rest of it. so i kind ofand all the rest of it. so i kind of think it's a bit rich. i mean, it's very typical of the snp that they always blame westminster. >> but do you think that was a laudable aim though, benjamin. the reduction in five years the 75% reduction in five years time. yeah, absolutely. the 75% reduction in five years timandeah, absolutely. the 75% reduction in five years tim and the absolutely. the 75% reduction in five years tim and the truth utely. the 75% reduction in five years tim and the truth utethat people >> and the truth is that people like you look at this in the completely reverse way. >> would flying? will >> would you stop flying? will you to stop flying right you commit to stop flying right on air? >> i mean, i did do that, >> i mean, if i did do that, you'd have to see more of me because i'd be in the country. where going in few where are you going in a few weeks? >> pl p- p— e off to yemen. i'm >> he's got off to yemen. i'm going there by horse. >> are you getting there? i camel, lawrence, look, can i can i point that, you i just make the point that, you know, climate challenges know, the climate challenges that we face are an enormous economic opportunity for a country that has as highly educated as excellent in a higher education sector as we do the kind of technology that we can is being in demand

can develop is being in demand by entire world, and it is by the entire world, and it is a massive chance for us to have a new industrial revolution. >> any idea how much it's going to cost? >> you didn't listen to >> well, you didn't listen to what said. saying that what i said. i'm saying that these huge business these are huge business opportunities an economy opportunities for an economy like that is why you like us, and that is why you should looking ways to should be looking at as ways to bnng should be looking at as ways to bring not ways to bring in money, not ways to spend it. >> so. so the only way you're going to get there is by spending £3 trillion stopping the world's battery the entire world's battery reserves ten years, reserves for the next ten years, rerouting uk. and even rerouting it to the uk. and even then will only meet 26% then it will only meet 26% of energy then it will only meet 26% of eneso let ask suicidal plan. >> so let me ask suicidal plan. >> so let me ask suicidal plan. >> right. and the at >> right. and the people at whitley windfarm, which is a giant farm in scotland, giant wind farm in scotland, will you the exact same will tell you the exact same thing i went up there for thing when i went up there for cop26, climate cop26, not exactly a climate denying i asked denying summit, right? i asked them, these any good? them, oh, are these any good? and said, we don't and they said, well, we don't make in scotland. we import make them in scotland. we import them via flatbed they're them via flatbed truck. they're coated we can't coated in carbon, we can't recycle and we still need recycle them, and we still need gas or nuclear to support them. so engineers the so even the engineers at the wind are they're wind farms are saying they're a flustered so what makes flustered bosh. so what makes you on this? you the expert on this? >> would you rather invest in >> so would you rather invest in tackling or tackling climate change or be underwater? that's

underwater? you're not. that's the lots of places in the reality of lots of places in the reality of lots of places in the absolutely >> it's absolutely not. >> it's absolutely not. >> in the commonwealth. >> no, the most apocalyptic claims of the un not likely claims of the un are not likely to to pass. and even you to come to pass. and even if you did, even if you did the un's prescribed policy, according to william nordhaus, nobel prize winning more by paying there'd be more damage by paying there'd be more damage by paying the than the money they've asked than just letting climate change happen. right, do you think >> right, diane, do you think this is an admission, this this is an admission, actually, that, know, actually, that, you know, scotland been partnering actually, that, you know, scotltheir been partnering actually, that, you know, scotltheir greenzen partnering actually, that, you know, scotltheir green coalitionering with their green coalition partners. been saying, with their green coalition parlook, been saying, with their green coalition parlook, going n saying, with their green coalition parlook, going to laying, with their green coalition parlook, going to be ng, oh, look, we're going to be the most of the most progressive part of the united because, know united kingdom because, you know , as benjamin said, he sometimes forgets that is still part of forgets that he is still part of the united kingdom. and actually what is that this what they've shown is that this is a completely unaffordable. it's costly to the extreme. and it would hit scotland's poorest people hardest. >> it would hit, i think they have had a massive realisation that this is not workable. and the snp are really showing themselves to not be very good at anything involving numbers, being as we've just had government. >> yeah . >> yeah. >> yeah. >> government numbers. oh, it's all a bit difficult but yeah, it's very clear that they've had

to row back on this. and although it is ambitious to set although it is ambitious to set a target, i often feel like scotland is trying to one up westminster. but they're not doing it in a way that they can actually achieve it. they're kind of like the guy that like, swaggers around the gym saying, yeah, i could bench press 96kg just because he wants the just because he wants to be the biggest guy. then when it biggest guy. but then when it comes to it, he doesn't even know machine works. know how the machine works. >> basically >> well, they're basically saying, let's make saying, you know, let's make scotland to get one scotland skint just to get one up on london. and i don't think that's viable proposition. that's a viable proposition. no. i'll actually i'll be they've said actually they've around and some they've turned around and some of them are blaming rishi sunak. they're saying because rishi sunak watered down his climate pledges , that they have been pledges, that they have been forced into action to reverse theirs. is it your fault? are you to blame for humza yousaf? >> is it. >> is it. >> well, i, i as rishi sunak accolades disciple rishi. >> well by extension look i, i speak to you as a wife who would be delighted. >> no, no, no, this is quite

serious actually. i think humza yousaf has just shown himself to be leader and he is not be an awful leader and he is not the kind of person that scotland needs for to be leading their country. i mean, he's a complete failure. he's set himself a far too ambitious target when it came to reducing 75% of emissions by 2030. i mean, what sort of nonsense is that? i was always told to. i mean, what's the phrase i'm looking for ? the phrase i'm looking for? overdeliver. under deliver. yeah. >> over underpromise, underpromise and overdeliver. >> that's i mean, and that is not what humza yousaf has done. >> no, i have a question. how could humza yousaf be a better leader in your opinion? >> leave . >> leave. >> leave. >> well that's answered that one right. fine folks, still to come tonight we're going to answer your questions in ask the five and we ask if you should be able to turn your street lights down to turn your street lights down to order. it's not as boring as it sounds, i promise. but next up, why has the author of a landmark review into transgender

policy been advised not to travel on public transport? i wonder if she fears seeing benjamin butterworth explain a hundred genders to her. >> oh please, i don't get public transport. >> you with the saturday five live on

gb news. >> welcome back to the saturday five. as ever, your emails are flying in. thanks. ever so here comes john to put me in my place. oh he says hi, darren. bad snoring or sleep apnoea is a very debilitating condition and can be life threatening. every time i go to sleep, i may not wake up again. >> you can apologise, darren. >> you can apologise, darren. >> well, look, i think there ought to be health innovations that help john and him get back to work.

>> i think the main one is that when john really needs to get some sleep, he puts you on the telly. well, i hope spain's wise watching have a good sleep, john. >> and alistair says how about those who a restricting those who had a restricting medical condition birth or medical condition from birth or very young? will they be left for dead? not when no one's rishi sunak hasn't stood up and said, remove disability said, let's remove disability benefit , he said. benefit, he said. >> he said if you've not worked for 12 then you lose all benefits. >> not if you are someone with spina bifida in a wheelchair. he is not anticipating you is not anticipating that you will work and be will go back to work and be expected do, i don't know. expected to do, i don't know. well, actually could do well, actually they could do yourjob well, actually they could do your job easily, well, actually they could do yourjob easily, but yourjob quite easily, but anything than me? anything else better than me? it's time though for our next debate. who wants to go next? >> all right, fingers over mute buttons. might as well be me. so doctor hilary cass, who's the author of the recent eponymous report on the tavistock and portman clinic that was meant to be servicing gender confused kids, has been advised to not take public transport for fear of violent reprisal from trans activists who can't seem to

accept the truth . now, you would accept the truth. now, you would think that people would be really concerned about her safety because all she's done is upgrade safeguarding towards confused and abused young children. unfortunately the labour party don't quite seem to agree because dawn butler mp , agree because dawn butler mp, rattling off some lies she found on social media, decided to tell the commons that hilary castle emitted over 100 studies from her report. out that her report. turns out that wasn't the case and we haven't had a retraction yet, so i think labour should probably get their trans activists in order, rather than continually than just continually back—pedalling on their record on blockers. just feel on puberty blockers. i just feel that the whole world is going a bit connor, because bit mad, connor, because ultimately is a factual ultimately this is a factual report, evidence led report, which is evidence led with scientists. >> i believe balanced took all the measures to try and create a report which was ultimately going to help children who are both not trans and who both not trans and people who may to transition later in may go on to transition later in life. i mean, i was watching some television the day, some television the other day, joe on his show. oh, i'm joe lycett on his show. oh, i'm so sorry. >> you f'— e you weren't. that's on >> i hope you weren't. that's on channel 4. >> is on channel so >> it is on channel 4. so anyway, we're going quickly

anyway, we're going to quickly get can get a clip get i think we can get a clip from that very show where apparently hilary cass is far right. this week there's right. well this week there's been a lot of hot air rising from the far right, otherwise known as the cass report. >> dark clouds coming in this evening, but no darker than the depths of your soul, richard. as you wander alone, knowing that depths of your soul, richard. as you last der alone, knowing that depths of your soul, richard. as you last faceilone, knowing that depths of your soul, richard. as you last face youe, knowing that depths of your soul, richard. as you last face you see owing that depths of your soul, richard. as you last face you see before that depths of your soul, richard. as you last face you see before you the last face you see before you die will be the babestation model on your premier inn tv. as you auto asphyxiate in the early hours of christmas morning, george and grey, everyone from the far right. >> are they talking about you ? >> are they talking about you? >> are they talking about you? >> oh well, i should hope so, because i'd take it as a badge of endorsement. i mean, far right clearly just means anything don't like. and this right clearly just means anythin�*if don't like. and this right clearly just means anythin�*if idon't like. and this right clearly just means anythin�*if i rememberand this right clearly just means anythin�*if i remember correctly, person, if i remember correctly, wasn't this person one that wasn't this person the one that stripped their stripped off and used their appendage to play the keyboard? i they're i don't think they're a particularly credible medical expert. >> well, no . >> well, no. >> well, no. >> was it funny, diane? >> was it funny, diane? >> what that segment that segment, not for me. no. i mean, but you know, that's the joy.

>> benjamin didn't laugh. >> benjamin didn't laugh. >> that's the joy of comedy. we all like different things. i'm sure somebody loved it. but i think it's a real shame because i read that report about doctor cass, and she said the thing thatis cass, and she said the thing that is really annoying her is the misinformation and the people who refuse to be open to the science refuse to say, oh, wow. so we're not medically treating , these children in the treating, these children in the way that we would medically treat them for other ailments, and instead they're sort of just labelling her a, transphobic or a terf, or then they're putting out misinformation on where we're at when a woman, a very esteemed woman, feels that she can't use public transport. that's absolutely appalling. yeah. and it's really , it is yeah. and it's really, it is quite scary. like, it's not like doctor hilary cass is one of the people who can bench press 96kg, i mean, intellectually , i think i mean, intellectually, i think she could knock somebody out in one punch, but physically , she one punch, but physically, she must be quite intimidated. >> well, i mean, benjamin, do you like the show? have i got

news for you on something called the bbc? it's an inferior broadcaster. you heard of it? >> i do, i watch it every week, although i didn't friday. although i didn't this friday. oh,well, let's have a watch of >> well, let's have a watch of a clip that they had on this very issue . issue. >> staying with what did >> staying with health. what did staff royal stoke staff at the royal stoke hospital week ? hospital do this week? >> the answer is we don't know. >> the answer is we don't know. >> yes, they made a banner declare that the hospital welcomes 21 different genders and sexualities . and sexualities. >> 21 there they are. wow, i don't know. some of those countries are zimbabwe at the end. >> yeah , each of these 21 >> yeah, each of these 21 genders has its own flag. >> and why not? you know, now cancer has been cured and everything . everything. >> now there they are. they they mark, you know , ian hislop of mark, you know, ian hislop of the of private eye is supposed to bash the establishment class andifs to bash the establishment class and it's taken a report by doctor hilary cass outlining just how much kids have been impacted vulnerable children, autism, kids who can't accept

being lesbian, gay or bisexual andifs being lesbian, gay or bisexual and it's taken this report for them to feel comfortable making a joke about this issue. now, as someone benjamin , who believes someone benjamin, who believes strongly that there are 100 genders, do you accept that actually people like you have made such an atmosphere of fear around this issue that people like doctor hilary cass don't feel safe? and have i got news for you ? only now feel for you? only now feel comfortable about standing up to bullies like, you know, i mean, it's just farcical nonsense. >> look, first of all, there's no it's not acceptable for anybody to feel unable to get on pubuc anybody to feel unable to get on public transport because of safety . i suspect very few safety. i suspect very few people would would recognise this doctor, to be honest. but i imagine the fear when you see all the comments online can be very real and i can understand how someone would end up feeling like that way. i would just also point out that the number of hate sometimes violent hate crimes sometimes violent hate crimes sometimes violent hate crimes sometimes violent hate crimes that happen against transgender people that don't

pass, that don't look like the gender they're trying to identify as people might question them, is a very real thing as well . you know, you thing as well. you know, you hear so many about hear so many stories about incidents public incidents on buses and public transport where they get beaten up trying to go their up just trying to go about their lives. think of lives. so i think a bit of self—awareness, know, self—awareness, you know, from different would go amiss. >> do you need to be more self—aware, connor, who's committing hate crimes? committing those hate crimes? >> because would >> ben. because i would esteem that tolerant and that it's not the tolerant and liberal english people. it's usually from a less. yes, usually people from a less. yes, it's usually to do with it because it's usually people from a far less tolerant background and faith who don't share our sensibilities . and faith who don't share our sensibilities. i didn't say race, well, are you race, did i? well, what are you saying? saying nationality saying? i'm saying nationality and culture. ben. >> funnily i'm saying >> funnily enough, i'm saying muslims, yes right. muslims, aren't you? yes right. >> there we go. i wouldn't be surprised doing this surprised if you keep doing this dog and you're not very dog whistle and you're not very good it, because pretty good at it, because it's pretty obvious saying. obvious what you're saying. >> you could literally do any debate show you'd debate on this show and you'd go back millom is not right. >> we're going to a break now. >> we're going to a break now. >> still to come tonight your questions will be answered in ask ask anything, ask the five. ask us anything, and diane and albie will go head

to the saturday to head in the saturday scrap. but residents but next, should residents have their brightened or their streetlights brightened or dimmed to their own liking? we'll try to throw some light on the situation to see what i did. there you're with the saturday five live on the

gb news. welcome back to the saturday five. it's time for our final debate of the first hour. the only person left is diane, who i can't see. diane. diane might you fix this problem for me? >> well, i can shed some light on the situation, so , what i've on the situation, so, what i've got here is a ring light that is used by, actors to do self—tapes and many influencers. now, light comes in many different ways. you can measure it. there's wattage. wattage is how much a

light bulb uses. and all of our councils, they want to change the street lights so that the wattage is low. so we use less energy. they're energy efficient . great. now light is also measured in lumens and kelvin lumens is how bright it is right now. you can see this is incredibly bright. i'm well lit. kelvin is the colour temperature okay. so what i've got here is 5000 kelvin which is the equivalent to daylight . now this equivalent to daylight. now this means that it's very blue. it's actually going to mess up my circadian rhythms. i don't expect to sleep till next thursday . okay. now there was thursday. okay. now there was a woman in barnet called sasha rodoy, and sasha took barnet council to court because the bright streetlights were actually hurting her. she has photophobia and she wrote to barnet council and she just said they're too bright. it's like daylight. now let me show you how bright exactly this is . the how bright exactly this is. the colour temperature of the

streetlights in barnet. so this is 4000 kelvins. now this is the equivalent to sunrise or sunset. so all the birds were going crazy and it literally hurts sasha's eyes. she has now got the council through a four year legal battle to lower the kelvins. the colour temperature down. to less than this. it's even down to 2200 because you can still have a lot of lumens, which means the area is still illuminated . but which means the area is still illuminated. but this is which means the area is still illuminated . but this is a which means the area is still illuminated. but this is a lot better for the environment. now, my debate is that i believe she was brilliant to do it because barnet council tried to put a gagging order on her. they tried to make her sign an nda because they said it would set a dangerous precedent. well, if your neighbourhood is full of blue light and it's messing up the birds and the way that you sleep, why shouldn't they change the lights? >> w n w- >> all right, diane, i would like apologise to our radio

like to apologise to our radio listeners who have no idea that you have just been there fiddling with a ring light, explaining about lumens and calvin's kelvins. kelvins? >> kelvin. well, now they can take their gcse physics again. >> they can? absolutely. i evidently i can't, i mean, it's on a serious note, diane. is there a is there a problem here with the lights being too dim so that, you know, people like women, for example, feel safe at night? is that a problem? would you still be able to see on a street with that? >> right, well, because lumens and kelvins are two different things. you kelvin is the colour temperature. so that's where we have that nice warm amber light. you can have a lamp that is 2200 kelvins, which means it's that lovely amber light, but it can still have loads and loads of lumens. so it's incredibly bright. and also you can have focused lighting like the other thing that they can do with the streetlights is they can put in light shields to stop the spillage people's, windows spillage into people's, windows and flats, and they can make

sure the light is very directional . sure the light is very directional. but this sure the light is very directional . but this doesn't directional. but this doesn't just affect us, affects the just affect us, it affects the insect and the way that the insects function. and it can affect bats and wildlife. >> and i'll die on you like a selfie . are you worried that selfie. are you worried that actually, this might impact your ability to take them? >> well, i just worry that if everyone is going to be asking the council to turn the lights up and down as per their sort of preference, that might become quite, unruly and bureaucratic task for the council to do. and at a time when councils are strapped of cash, strapped of resources , is it really? i hate resources, is it really? i hate to bring it back down to money and politics, but is it really a proper use of public funding to be turning up and down street lights as per residents preferences? >> but, well, first of all, this wasn't a preference for sasha. she was literally physically hurt by the lights because she has photophobia. but, i what i'm saying is that going forward, when you replace a light, why

replace it with something that's a blue light that mimics daylight? why not replace it with a warmer light that still has that energy saving efficiency? >> benjamin, as someone that gives lot of our viewers gives a lot of our viewers photophobia , have you suffered photophobia, have you suffered from the lamps being too light on your show? >> i think we really underestimate the effect that that lighting has. you know, i have in my house himalayan salt lamps, which are a lovely orange, and they're good for the air. and it really does . air. and it really does. >> oh, no. every light, every light lumen, every . well, lumens light lumen, every. well, lumens is how bright the light is. >> so how bright are they? >> so how bright are they? >> they're not they're not bright. and there's quite an orangey colour. a bit like me on a, on a weekend and or you. right now. >> and, you know, it really does affect my mood . affect my mood. >> you know, i've got this one lamp in my living room, and i couldn't find the right bulb, so i've got this really bright white one, and it's just horrible. it makes me feel uncomfortable. and think most uncomfortable. and i think most people understand that in their

house. people understand that in their hou big light on. and so to have the big light on. and so to have this the street, i think can this in the street, i think can cause serious problems. there are in my street are street lights in my street that just way too bright. are street lights in my street thatannoying.vay too bright. are street lights in my street thatannoying. and 00 bright. are street lights in my street thatannoying. and i) bright. are street lights in my street thatannoying. and i) brigh you it's annoying. and i think, you know, i'll be talked about councils not having much money. well, might quite popular. way down might be quite popular. way to save some. >> connor, you to >> connor, are you going to start a hashtag turn the lights down campaign? >> be where i focus >> it might not be where i focus all my interests, darren. i've got other things to got slightly few other things to do, completely agree with do, but i completely agree with diane. principle why do, but i completely agree with diadon't principle why do, but i completely agree with diadon't |screensr why we don't give kids screens before still emits before bedtime. it still emits blue interrupts their blue light. it interrupts their sleep. they can't sleep. it means they can't function school the day. function at school the next day. and walking around and so if we're walking around in a very brightly blue in a very brightly lit blue light, it's not going to light, city, it's not going to be for health. be very good for our health. i would prefer back to where it would prefer it back to where it was pre—big city living and, well, that's bit more natural well, that's a bit more natural light. would be quite gas fire. >> night time natural light at night—time. >> i'll my up so i >> i'll leave my blinds up so i wake with sun. wake up with the sun. >> i say. other thing, >> i would say. one other thing, though, you can't. though, is you can't. >> afraid i still have. >> i'm afraid i still have. i been cancelled? labour are blaming charter been cancelled? labour are blaa ing charter been cancelled? labour are blaa shocking charter been cancelled? labour are blaa shocking rise charter been cancelled? labour are blaa shocking rise theft,3r for a shocking rise in theft, and we'll be joined by a former top officer to discuss and we'll be joined by a former top that. officer to discuss and we'll be joined by a former top that. plus,er to discuss and we'll be joined by a former top that. plus, it's) discuss and we'll be joined by a former top that. plus, it's the ;cuss just that. plus, it's the saturday scrap albion. diane go

head to head on the topic of open marriages. let's find out if diane's had let's hope if diane's had one. let's hope you you're with the saturday five live on . gb news. five live on. gb news. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather from the met office. high pressure is sticking around through the rest of the weekend, but we will start to see some rain arriving in the north. that in the north. but it is that area of pressure that will area of high pressure that will be our weather, so be dominating our weather, so bringing more settled bringing us some more settled conditions. however, these weather the north weather fronts out to the north will a bit more in the will bring us a bit more in the way rain as we head through way of rain as we head through sunday the week. sunday and into the new week. plenty of around through plenty of cloud around through the evening, the rest of this evening, spilling southwards spilling its way southwards across into across much of england and into parts into early parts of wales into the early hours morning. but south hours of the morning. but south eastern of england, eastern parts of england, northern ireland, western scotland to scotland probably holding on to some skies turning some clearer skies and turning chilly perhaps some frost chilly here, perhaps some frost in but under all that

in places, but under all that cloud not quite cloud generally not quite as cold, although single cold, although the high single figures possible . so a bit figures are possible. so a bit of a cloudier start, particularly eastern particularly for eastern parts of some outbreaks of scotland. some outbreaks of rain spilling their way southwards sunday southwards through sunday morning, but eastern parts of england, northern ireland, western still holding western scotland still holding on some of sunshine, on to some of that sunshine, perhaps 1 or 2 showers across the very south—east, but it the very far south—east, but it should staying dry most should be staying dry for most places and places away from that cloud and rain that cloud and rain under that cloud and rain. still quite chilly, still feeling quite chilly, we're reach we're struggling to reach into the figures across some the double figures across some nonh the double figures across some north coast, but further north sea coast, but further south of 14 or 15 degrees. south highs of 14 or 15 degrees. monday does start a little bit cloudier for most of us. outbreaks of spreading outbreaks of rain spreading their across much their way southwards across much of the uk through monday, perhaps parts of perhaps southeastern parts of england on a of england holding on to a bit of sunshine through afternoon sunshine through the afternoon and that and feeling warm in that sunshine, chillier sunshine, but much chillier elsewhere. further showers through tuesday and wednesday, but temperatures slowly but those temperatures slowly starting return closer to starting to return closer to average as we head through the second of the week. second half of the week. >> like things are heating >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. way. >> it's saturday night and this is the saturday five. i'm darren grimes, and i'm still along with albie amankona, diane spencer, connor tomlinson and benjamin butterworth. plenty more to come tonight , butterworth. plenty more to come tonight, including. have we created a safe haven for shoplifters? that's what labour are saying. we'll ask if they're right. it's 7 pm. and this is the saturday five. also in the next hour , diane and also in the next hour, diane and i'll be go head to head on open marriages in the saturday scrap. before the break, i suggested that diane might not be in one. i just want to clarify. i meant open marriages, not a marriage.

i wasn't suggesting you're a spinster. i promise, diane, and i'll be having a pop at sadiq khanin i'll be having a pop at sadiq khan in bunch of five. plus, we'll analyse mcdonald's latest marketing wheeze. then we'll be answering your questions in ask the five, send them across to gb news. it's at the website gbnews.com forward slash your say. but first it's your saturday night news with sophia wenzler. >> thanks, darren. i'm sophia wenzler in the gb newsroom. i'm first to some breaking news, the us house of representatives has approved sending £49 billion worth in foreign aid to ukraine. democrats and republicans joined together after months of deadlock over renewed american support to help ukraine fend off russia's invasion . in other russia's invasion. in other news, the policing minister will meet the met police commissioner

in the next week to discuss concerns about an officer's comments directed at an anti—semitism campaigner. gideon falter was stopped from crossing a road near a pro—palestinian march by the officer, who described him as quite openly jewish. the force has since apologised twice. today, pro—israel demonstrators held a peaceful counter—protest in central london called enough is enough.the central london called enough is enough. the group says hatred has no place on the streets of the capital. >> can't walk through central london with a yarmulke on your head. no signs of any israeli flag or support for israel, or any views on on what may be going on in the middle east. but if you're not allowed to walk across the street in central london because are openly london because you are openly jewish, then it's time for the government to act. >> it'sjust government to act. >> it's just sad that it's that it has come to this, that it's now regarded as not completely safe for jewish people to walk in the streets of their own own own city and not only is it distressing and vile as their views are, the distressing

thing, it's also becoming becoming normalised . becoming normalised. >> meanwhile, pro—palestinian protests have been marching in sheffield, demanding a ceasefire in gaza . they're accusing israel in gaza. they're accusing israel of using famine as a weapon of war, and criticised the government for continuing to arm the country . the palestine the country. the palestine solidarity campaign also took aim at barclays bank, urging it to sever ties with companies which supply weapons and military equipment to israel, and musicians, politicians and campaigners are rallying in glasgow calling for another independence referendum. believe independence referendum. believe in scotland and pensioners for independence marched from kelvin way to george square to hear from speakers including first minister humza yousaf . there minister humza yousaf. there were mixed feelings in the city, with a counter—protest calling for the country to remain in the united kingdom. sarah carter , we united kingdom. sarah carter, we want it back. >> thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> we've been we've been a colony for over 300 years. >> we get nothing back. everything's taken from us and

90, 9° everything's taken from us and go, go south to object against them. >> the a&e march still going ahead because they haven't accepted our our vote in 2014. >> i think it's about ridiculous. i if i'm honest, so that's why i'm here. but i'm not really here for manana. so >> and for the latest story, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen, or go to gbnews.com slash alerts. now it's back to the saturday five. >> it's saturday night and you're with the saturday five. i'm darren grimes and we're all set for another great hour. let's crack on with tonight's big interview. we're asking tonight, have we created a shoplifters charter? that's the claim being made by the labour party, who are citing data which shows that there were four 402,000 shoplifting offences in

england and wales in the year to september 2023. so that amounts to roughly one every single minute . but offences resulting minute. but offences resulting in a police charge well , in a police charge well, predictably, they've actually fallen here. to discuss this with us is the former detective chief superintendent with the met police, kevin hurley. hello, kevin . you're going to take them kevin. you're going to take them to task on this? i mean, what's going on? why are we not banging up those who make shopkeepers lives? frankly, a total misery ? lives? frankly, a total misery? >> quite frankly, it's because there's a complete lack of resources throughout the whole criminal justice system. there are in adequate numbers of patrol police to respond to these incidents. there are inadequate numbers of crown prosecution lawyers to deal with those that should go to prosecution . and there are prosecution. and there are inadequate numbers of prison places or community probation

officers to supervise those who might get supervision type orders. so if there is no deterrent for those people who are determined to shoplift , and are determined to shoplift, and they vary from people who are drug addicts, alcoholics, stealing to do that, to organise criminals, to some opportunists who know there's , no sanction or who know there's, no sanction or indeed some people who are absolutely starving to death and want to feed their families. bottom line is , if there is no bottom line is, if there is no sanction, this will go further and further out of control. yeah, it's down to the government. they've slashed the entire criminal justice sector and all aspects of that. >> well, absolutely. i mean, kevin, do you think actually you agree with the labour party that we have de facto sort of decriminalised or rather created a shoplifters charter to actually allow people to do this without fear of repercussions? >> well, i mean , what i, what >> well, i mean, what i, what i believe is every kind of misbehaviour should have a

sanction of some sort, whether it's a telling off or life in prison, depending on whether you know how extreme is. but any form of misbehaviour should have a response . but we're in a response. but we're in a situation now where, due to lack of resources , the police can't of resources, the police can't respond to most incidents of shoplifting. they don't have the people. shop staff are left unprotected, unprotected. the shareholders shops are, if you like, losing their money. all of us are paying more for our goods, for them, for those who steal. but it comes down quite simply if there is no deterrent, some people will take advantage of it . of it. >> i'll be. i want to bring you in. do you think actually your party, the legacy of your party, the conservatives, is going to be one of shops having to lock away goods ? away goods? >> well, look, the conservatives have corrected their mistake of sacking those 20,000 police officers during austerity , only officers during austerity, only to hire them back. but i would like to know from kevin what he makes of the reports of this

robin hood reports that we've seen coming. i think it was out of the daily mail today, where people are stealing from what they perceive to be up—market supermarkets like waitrose and m&s, going and giving m&s, and then going and giving that food to food banks. what's going on? >> well, as you ask the question, let's be clear, the conservative party reduced the police by 22,000 experienced officers and 20,000 support back officers and 20,000 support back office staff and have replaced them with 20,000 new people who are mostly unskilled and inexperienced. combined with shutting 60% of the police stations in the country. so no plaudits there, if i may, because i know the numbers and i know the business, but the reality of it is there will be people stealing and taking stuff to put in, food banks. they are misguided to do that. it's not their place to do that. and they do so because there is no sanction against committing a criminal offence which is theft.

>> and kevin, as a as a former police officer yourself, when you were dealing with these cases in real life, were you ever more lenient on people who had really difficult circumstances ? circumstances? >> well, no, you have no choice. the kind of person who would respond , to this are generally respond, to this are generally the most junior constables on the most junior constables on the shift. and the situation used to be you would hear the evidence from the store detective or the shop, employee and if you thought there was evidence of theft, you would arrest, take them to the police station and a decision would then be made. is it going to be no further action? are they going to be cautioned or are they going to be charged? but, you know, repeat the point, you know, to repeat the point, there are totally inadequate numbers officers to numbers of patrol officers to achieve that purpose anymore. so the shops have to fend for themselves. >> i think we've got some footage actually , of these robin footage actually, of these robin hood types declaring themselves to be there. we are declaring

themselves to be you know, the forces of good and all things, worthy in the world. but, i mean, i agree with you, kevin. i think they are thoroughly misguided. and i don't think this is the way to go about it, kevin, i, i have been shocked when i go to the two small supermarkets by my house. >> basically, every time i go there , i will see somebody who there, i will see somebody who probably looks homeless, stealing from there. and the staff that work in those two little supermarkets don't even bother to stop them. do you think there's been a cultural change that now? it's not just people who are desperate and doing the wrong thing out of desperation, but there's a lot of people that just don't think it's a serious crime. and so they think they can get away with it . with it. >> well, i think some people, quite rightly, as you say, think it's a serious crime. but from a point of view of the staff, they do not wish to be assaulted. they're on minimum wages. it's not their to , job frankly, put

not their to, job frankly, put their blood and bone on the line to protect that , that product. i to protect that, that product. i mean, it comes back to again what i said. it's a vicious circle. if there isn't certainty of some form of sanction which no longer exists, then people are going to do it. and the bigger problem really is not even those robin hoods who are silly and misguided as as darren says, but is the organised says, but it is the organised shoplifting gangs who come shoplifting gangs who will come in and take thousands and thousands of pounds off the shelf , which has thousands of pounds off the shelf, which has a real impact on the cost of goods for all of us. >> us. >> kevin, just finally, before i let you go and briefly, if you would please, because we're running short of time, but how much in london do you think? actually, sadiq khan is taking his eyes the ball because his eyes off the ball because we've the conservatives. we've bashed the conservatives. but as police and but actually, as police and crime commissioner, i mean do is there a problem here for with example, knives or stupid people in especially in supermarkets especially worried knives of course. worried about knives of course. >> and of course sadiq khan has taken his eye off the ball. he always plays to the audience , he

always plays to the audience, he always plays to the audience, he always plays to the audience, he always plays to, different pressure groups. and so on. it was him who said he wanted to stop. stop and search. and he's got he's got the result of that. now, large numbers of youths mainly black ones, being stabbed to death or maimed by mainly black youths because he pandered to a small number of the vociferous minority. so yes, sadiq khan has tried to interfere in a business which so many people do, but they don't understand, which is how policing and the criminal justice sector works. >> all right, we'll leave it there. thank you. as ever, mate, for your time. that's a former detective chief superintendent with the met police, kevin hurley. let's have a chat hurley. now let's have a chat about this amongst ourselves. i mean , a plague on all their mean, a plague on all their houses really? was the narrative there politically? i mean, yeah, and i mean, do you do you worry about this? do you think actually, as as benjamin asked that question there, are we becoming a society of people that view it as well? it's a

it's an all right thing to do. it's fine to do that. >> i'm not sure if it's an all right thing to do. i mean, i well, no, i'm not for a second suggesting it is, are suggesting that it is, but are we becoming society which is we becoming a society which is more of that? more accepting of that? >> view essentially? >> the world view essentially? >> the world view essentially? >> i think that they're rich. >> they make of money. why >> they make lots of money. why not? from them? >> yeah. kevin, kevin hurley made excellent point made a really excellent point when he said, why should the shopkeeper their life on the shopkeeper put their life on the line confront somebody is line to confront somebody who is , stealing a product from. yeah, the person who is employing them. and you look at shops, and when you look at, like, the big shops, like, you know, waitrose and m&s and things like that, you think, oh, they i'm sure there's a group of people that think, oh, they can take me nicking a bottle of champagne, like time i saw somebody like the one time i saw somebody shoplift. it that shoplift. i've not seen it that often . i froze because i didn't. often. i froze because i didn't. i work out what i was i couldn't work out what i was seeing. i saw a man grab a bottle of champagne and shove it down trousers. i've never down his trousers. i've never seen like that before. seen anything like that before. and me minute to work and it took me a minute to work out he was doing, but no ,

out what he was doing, but no, |, out what he was doing, but no, i, i think that there's a danger in butterworth. i mean, it does look suspiciously. >> he doesn't actually like champagne. >> no, i don't like the bubbles. >> no, i don't like the bubbles. >> he likes drink it on his >> he likes to drink it on his flights to yemen, no, i, i think that definitely there has been a cultural shift. yes. because you don't want to confront people when they're doing things that you don't agree with. like, for example, if somebody's playing loud , you're loud music on the bus, you're less say something less likely to say something because well, what if because you think, well, what if i get yelled at or attacked? >> it's that because fear >> it's that because you fear they knife ? even though they have a knife? even though in this day and age, i mean, i don't know who carries. >> don't who >> i genuinely don't know who carries would. i'm carries knives, but i would. i'm scared kind for me, it scared of kind of, for me, it would sort of be an actual physical altercation . i'm not physical altercation. i'm not that second. >> connor in and then >> i'll bring connor in and then we'll back albie. connor, we'll go back to albie. connor, what of everything what have you made of everything you've so far? you've heard so far? >> like, >> well, unlike, like, what i think i'll hopes think i'll be hopes the conservative are more conservative party are more likely seats than likely to get zero seats than re—elected. we are facing the re—elected. so we are facing the prospect a labour government, prospect of a labour government, which saying which is why they're saying this. i happen remember in this. i happen to remember in 2020, starmer and 2020, when keir starmer and angela for

angela rayner took the knee for blm, flagship was blm, whose flagship campaign was defund excuse me defund the police. so excuse me if think they're going if i don't think they're going to this problem. instead, to fix this problem. instead, i think see think we're going to see a shoplifters charter become a shoplifters charter become a shoplifters paradise, like shoplifters paradise, much like in it's in san francisco, where not it's below goods. it below £200 worth of goods. it will be below £1,000 worth of goods. and you'll these goods. and you'll get these smash gangs making smash and grab gangs making more and and and more money. and any suggestion otherwise suggestion to the otherwise would called discrimination, right? >> do wm- >> alb do you agree? >> alb do you agree? >> no. i don't agree. but what i was going to say is that i think there certainly was a time where if an ordinary person saw someone shoplifting in a supermarket, they would have intervened and said, this is unacceptable behaviour and i just wonder how we've got to this point sort of the this point where sort of the involuntary actions within the community that used to make the society kind of tick along has gone away. and now we just expect the state to do absolutely everything. of course , the state should provide police. that's not what i'm saying. were saying. but there were involuntary actions that individuals did that used to stop this sort of thing from happening. and i don't think that happens anymore. >> i'm still the type to >> i mean, i'm still the type to say something. keep my

say something. i can't keep my opinions to myself the best opinions to myself at the best of but i was thinking the of times. but i was thinking the other in a little m&s other day i was in a little m&s and they were taking meats and they were taking the meats that right by the door and that were right by the door and i how are cooking i thought, how are you cooking that you're homeless? i thought, how are you cooking that ityou're homeless? i thought, how are you cooking that it turns homeless? i thought, how are you cooking that it turns outneless? i thought, how are you cooking that it turns out they'll take then it turns out they'll take then it turns out they'll take the and things, which then it turns out they'll take the arej things, which then it turns out they'll take the are expensive 'hich then it turns out they'll take the are expensive , ich then it turns out they'll take the are expensive , and obviously are expensive, and then sell them on as then they'll sell them on as a black market. i think black market. and so i think there's an entire economy that is fuelling this. >> right folks. still >> absolutely right folks. still to come tonight has labour's social media team lost the plot? benjamin butterworth will discuss . and we'll take your discuss. and we'll take your questions in. ask the five. but next it's the big one. you won't want to miss this. next it's the big one. you won't want to miss this . albie want to miss this. albie amankona vie diane spencer on the topic of open marriage in the topic of open marriage in the saturday scrap. is saturday night all right for swinging or will? or will monogamy always be the way to go? you're with the saturday five live on

gb news. on mark dolan tonight. >> in my big opinion, working is a national duty. it's time for lazy brits to wake up and smell the coffee in my take at ten, after a humiliating double apology, british policing is no longer fit for purpose. and has joe biden finally lost the plot? i'll be asking america's psychiatrist , doctor carole psychiatrist, doctor carole lieberman. plus top royal author tom bower and political double act the hamiltons. we're live at nine. >> welcome back . saturday five. >> welcome back. saturday five. >> welcome back. saturday five. >> what was that always . >> what was that always. >> what was that always. >> that was beautiful. >> that was beautiful. >> i'll be on broadway before you know it. i always. or just you know it. i always. orjust broad, as always. thanks very much for all of your emails about tonight's topics. michael's written in. oh, here we go. some idiot said we won't

prosecute under £250. so people are going into shops filling a trolley and leaving without paying trolley and leaving without paying . paying. >> don't look at me. >> don't look at me. >> apologise . back to diane. >> apologise. back to diane. street lights discussion and ann has written in and says light turned off at 12 midnight in worthing and also west sussex in general, i believe. very scary for some of us. i bet that is, especially if out walking driving and parking. also in pleasant and built up areas. this includes new year so kerbs, many of us, especially lone women , being out late and kept women, being out late and kept me from celebrating this year. >> oh no, that is bad. you see, we want to kind of get that fine line between a little bit of illumination. yeah, you want to get your right level of kelvins and lumens. >> are, we're learning >> yeah. we are, we're learning it today on the saturday it all today on the saturday five. though, time for five. now though, it's time for this. >> ding ding. indeed. >> ding ding. indeed. >> it's time for tonight's main event. i was reading the guardian earlier. not always.

who are you? not always. my paper of choice. i readily admit . and i found a very interesting article by cassie werber which detailed how having an open marriage has helped her to have a happy marriage. now, who better to debate this than i'll better to debate this than i'll be the love doctor. oh, and conor and diane swinging is not for me. spencer seconds out. diane, you kick things off. ding ding off you pop. well, i am sorry, cassie, but if you feel that you need to have sex with other people, i. >> how does your husband feel about this? is he cool with it? you know? do you come home with two lots of laundry? is all i'm saying. i think that this the idea of an open marriage. i'm so sorry. i thought that when you married somebody, it was because you've chosen them . you're in you've chosen them. you're in love you're little love with them. you're a little team. it . it's love with them. you're a little team. it. it's you two team. that's it. it's you two against the world. but it's. that doesn't work. if suddenly you go. we are against the

world. but just until tuesday. and then i'm going to go and, you know, have sex with that person down the road who i really fancy. like how is. i can't even understand how that works . if you want to do that, works. if you want to do that, get divorced, break it off. go live your sexual exploration life. >> you see, i think we should not be encouraging divorce. and actually , i think if both actually, i think if both parties agree that they're going to have an open marriage and this is going to be something which is going to help prolong and and the and strengthen and enrich the marriage and marriage in the long term and prevents divorce. and this can actually good thing. now, actually be a good thing. now, this right for your this might not be right for your marriage, but this is marriage, diane, but this is right cassie's marriage. and right for cassie's marriage. and i think what couples do i actually think what couples do in private lives and in in their private lives and in their bedrooms is a matter for them, matter for me . them, not a matter for me. >> yeah, now i understand >> yeah, well, now i understand that do their that what people do in their own bedrooms matter for me. bedrooms is not a matter for me. i do understand that. i mean, the amount of costumes that i've seen in other people's wardrobes would stomach. would turn your stomach. however, think that if however, i do think that if you're going to get married, i mean, we have a lot of our , a

mean, we have a lot of our, a lot of gay friends. they want to get married , they want to have get married, they want to have the sanctity of marriage. but then how is it sanctified if you get married and then you're off doing bits and bobs with other people in, dare i say it, budget hotels? i'm sorry i went there, but that's what you're going but if that's what you're going to do, maybe you shouldn't have got married in first place. got married in the first place. >> just thinking >> but we just thinking practically here, diane, if you were marriage, in were in a marriage, in a situation where you felt you both wanted to go and sleep with other people, would you get divorced and ruin that whole life that you built together? the home, the kids, the dog, the country house of you're rich enough to have one of those and get divorce just because you want to sleep with other people. or wouldn't you say right, or wouldn't you say all right, we'll both each other we'll both give each other a hall pass. we'll go and sleep with person always with that person we've always fancied, on with fancied, and then crack on with our marriage. >> is this which better? >> is this which is better? yeah. why rich people yeah. is this why rich people have, those orgies in have, like, those orgies in those houses? because have, like, those orgies in thos

afford the prenup. i'm assuming that's is. no, i think that's what it is. no, i think that's what it is. no, i think that i've. you see, i've met a couple of people who are in open marriages, and i've never met a couple where both people were happy about it. there's always one person who who says, yeah , one person who who says, yeah, it's great. it means that we get to enrich our lives, and the other partner is like, yes, it's wonderful. i'm so happy when they go out every tuesday and thursday and come back smelling strange. no, i don't think it should be encouraged. i think if you want to do that, go for it. be sexually liberated, but don't wear that banner of marriage at the same time. >> all right, viewers at home let us know what you thought of that one. gbnews.com/yoursay what i would say i'll be is. i think you perhaps overestimate how many people have country homes to go. >> and i did say , that's why >> and i did say, that's why you're rich. >> that's what i said. >> that's what i said. >> if you did say that, i did say if you're rich. >> i think diane's got a point

on the power dynamic. there's always one party in, and i speak anecdotally . i've never been in anecdotally. i've never been in anecdotally. i've never been in an open marriage myself. chance would you've been part of would be if you've been part of one, no, have not. thank one, no, and i have not. thank you very much. >> you were the third ring in the marriage. >> but what i what i would say is, do you do you think actually that power dynamic there some people just say it makes them happier. them together. happier. it keeps them together. but that's what's keeping you but if that's what's keeping you together, you're just not together, maybe you're just not meant i genuinely have met >> but i genuinely have met couples my parents age, couples who are my parents age, who have been married for, what, 30, 40 years, who have been in open marriages at points, and they are still married. and perhaps that is the reason why they haven't got divorced. and all i'm saying is divorce is such a bad outcome that surely if this is a way that we can prevent divorce from happening, shouldn't we just let couples do what they like? >> well, can i you like marriage? so who's whose argument have you sided with? >> neither. and the is >> neither. and the reason is there's missing from there's a person missing from this discussion. why is no one

raised? what they should do is what's for the kids. what's best for the kids. because entire household. >> thank you very >> have children. thank you very much . i'm married without much. i'm married without children, much. i'm married without childrenthat's why you gave that >> and that's why you gave that response. think because response. i think it's because we think marriage we don't think of marriage anymore create an anymore about create an indissoluble household in which to raise both of you to raise children, both of you expressed it as well. if the individual constituents aren't being sexually fulfilled or are being sexually fulfilled or are being sexually fulfilled or are being sexually fulfilled, then they shouldn't they should or shouldn't go outside household. it outside the household. and it should no, shouldn't get should be, no, you shouldn't get married. want to sleep married. if you want to sleep with people, you shouldn't with other people, you shouldn't get want to get get married if you want to get divorced, get divorced, and you should get married in order to have kids and home. and have a home. >> i think actually >> i think i did actually mention children when i used my example country house, example in the country house, and i was, was you and what i said was, was you really? would you really give all couple all of that up if the couple simply go simply wanted you shouldn't go and someone else. and sleep with someone else. >> do benjamin. >> you should do benjamin. >> you should do benjamin. >> is it best for the kids for a divorce to happen in there? that's a hobson's choice. >> neither. with >> do neither. don't sleep with other divorced. >> in that situation, >> no, but in that situation, that specific situation that very specific situation that very specific situation that mentioned, debate that i mentioned, that debate is the marriage, you the purpose of marriage, if you do either of them. >> not accepting. i'm >> so i'm not accepting. i'm giving the option. giving you the option. >> is better?

>> which one is better? >> which one is better? >> i'm saying neither is it better to get divorced or not. in situation, i will not in that situation, i will not choose between circles hell. choose between circles of hell. thank benjamin didn't >> oh, right. benjamin didn't we? a very hypothetical question, would up question, but would you give up your country manor ? if you're if your country manor? if you're if you're significant other was was playing away. well, i do i would i do intend to marry for money so i probably wouldn't look for me. >> you know the idea of meeting derek and big linda in the back of a ford fiesta is not my idea of a ford fiesta is not my idea of a ford fiesta is not my idea of a happy relationship. >> okay ? >> okay? >> okay? >> keys in a bowl. >> keys in a bowl. >> that won't do it for me. >> that won't do it for me. >> is that not a. >> is that not a. >> it doesn't suit. it doesn't suit my personality. i really i, derek and linda have a country manor. >> i'm. >> i'm. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> it's done. well if it's a mercedes, maybe. >> but. look, you know that just wouldn't work for me. i think i'm probably a bit insecure for me, the idea of a relationship is about being able to have that complete commitment. it's that direct channel another direct to channel another person. that is why i value the

hypothetical concept of me having a relationship. but i think that is quite different to the idea that you should have some kind of moral objection to this. and i'd say one thing i think often, particularly in this country where we're a pretty prudish society, you know, the french probably think we're incredibly lame. the fact is most people can be is that most people can be deadly in love with somebody, but that doesn't mean it's ridiculous to think that. that doesn't they won't doesn't mean they won't be attracted to other people at points in their life, and that that detracts from the fact that they love somebody. and i think i a couple they met when i know a couple they met when they 17, the same two sex, they were 17, the same two sex, men 17, they're men they met at 17, they're now 50. they've the whole 50. they've been open the whole time. a wonderful time. and they're a wonderful couple. clearly it works for couple. so clearly it works for some people. >> say something about, >> i would say something about, being attracted attracted to being attracted to attracted to other people. i think you have to accept that other people exist occasionally exist and occasionally you'll go, you look but but at go, you look healthy, but but at the same time, there's then the what high standards you have , what high standards you have, diane, the second step of acting on but also i find that, on it, but also i find that, because i'm committed to my

husband, i try to make the best of myself , and he tries to make of myself, and he tries to make the best of himself. so we're always still looking and flirting with each other, and it sort of keeps everything all fresh lovely , and. and fresh and lovely, and. and i think that's part of the commitment the love and the monogamy. >> you do, monogamy. >> what would you do, though, if you, you home you, you know, you get home tonight husband says, tonight and your husband says, well, afraid to tell well, diane, i'm afraid to tell you, i want to play away. linda and are coming round . and derek are coming round. >> i like, big linda, big linda. >> i think we'd all go out for a gin. i think we'd have to discuss. >> would you be like, right, get me the phone. divorce me on the phone. divorce lawyers. it. lawyers. that's it. >> yeah. mean, we >> oh my gosh. yeah. i mean, we would a definite serious would have a definite serious chat . i'm sorry, but who chat about. i'm sorry, but who are you? my husband? are you? where is my husband? which parallel universe have you come from? are you actually a robot from the future? that's where would be. it's out of where i would be. it's so out of the for me. the world for me. >> and i'll be. well. we're >> and then i'll be. well. we're going a break now. going to a break now. sadly, i was break the ford was about to break the ford fiestas ask about . i fiestas here to ask you about. i would just like to let you know that there are other couples available. it's not just linda and so still ahead in a

and derek. so still ahead in a bunch of five a labour seat sexism row, a new mcdonald's marketing campaign, and a record breaking day for taylor swift resident swifty conner, tomlinson will be all over that . tomlinson will be all over that. you're with the saturday five live

gb news. welcome back to the saturday five. as always. thank you very much for all of your emails about tonight's topics on the so—called shoplifters charter. dawn says police brass wanted to prioritise non crimes like hate and internet tiffs over shoplifting. and police brass told us about their choice to no longer attend shoplifting over two months ago. and we all knew what would happen and discussed it at the time. priorities maybe. yeah

>> no, i mean she is right now though, it's time for this. >> what have we got? who's going to start us off? >> so i'm going to start us off with the bunch of five drones. so i was having a scroll through on twitter earlier on, and i saw this brilliantly hilarious meme of a labour policy where basically labour talking basically labour are talking about housing policy. about their housing policy. i don't know if we can get this, this meme up, but labour are talking about housing policy and they've a woman lying next they've got a woman lying next to what looks like her partner boyfriend husband who knows it's she's looking the she's looking out into the distance. derek and linda, distance. it's derek and linda, and is saying , distance. it's derek and linda, and is saying, well, i bet and linda is saying, well, i bet he's thinking about other women. and derek is saying some of the land. i'm not going to read that because it's boring. but basically he talks about his he talks about labour's green belt policy and their housing policy. and party have and now the labour party have got a little bit got themselves into a little bit of a as party of of a tiff as the party of equality, because people are saying a this is saying that this is a this is sexist. apparently, diane and i

know that you feel very strongly about think is about this. you think it is sexist? why >> it's lazy writing. >> i think it's lazy writing. it's to be quite . i it's supposed to be quite. i think it's supposed to be funny, but find it really lazy but i find it really lazy because although you've got the picture, could put so many picture, you could put so many great captions of what she is thinking before and the fact before. you know, you reveal it's about the green belt, like, oh my god, is that him or me? i mean, i know we ate broccoli, you know, something like that , you know, something like that, something a bit more cheeky, but instead it just sort of shows this woman whose only concern is what he's thinking about her. it's just tiresome. do you know, as a woman, i just find it a bit tiresome. and i expect more from the late. well, i would say i expect more from the labour party, but it took them a while to admit what a lady was. so maybe i should lower the bar. >> benjamin, not ashamed >> benjamin, are you not ashamed of party's rampant sexism? of your party's rampant sexism? are >> i mean, look, the thing is about political parties and these is that are these things is that there are thousands of people between staff all the rest

staff and mps and all the rest of it. and so you know, it's of it. and so it you know, it's such a it's not really representative. does representative. whoever does it, you serious you know, nobody serious will likely that. but likely have looked at that. but i think it's interesting that i do think it's interesting that labour using loads these labour is using loads of these memes they're memes and they're quite effective. slightly effective. it's a slightly different but we've different point, but we've obviously had obviously we've never had political this political advertising in this country way america country in the way that america does, now we basically do does, but now we basically do because all online. and because it's all online. and i think transforming our think that's transforming our political landscape. think that's transforming our political landtoape. think that's transforming our political landto work for the iea, >> you used to work for the iea, and i would say the institute of economic affairs , and then also economic affairs, and then also the adam smith institute is something which you're probably quite closely aligned to, as am i. think tanks are i. these think tanks are actually. and the taxpayers alliance, these think tanks, are actually ones who came up actually the ones who came up with that with this labour policy that they've with, where they've come up with, where they're designate areas they're going to designate areas of bay belt, of the green bay belt, grey belt, they're going belt, which they're then going to build upon. so the labour party taking on free market party is taking on free market ideas more than the conservative party. do feel about that? >> well, yeah, i imagine that's probably enough. but if it probably fair enough. but if it was representative of the nation, that meme i imagine she'd be turning around herself and saying, your off and saying, get your mitts off

the green belt, because there are awful lot of people are an awful lot of people vehemently to any kind vehemently opposed to any kind of even say you of reform. even if you say you know, which i do, that there are disused car washes in this country that are declared green belt land. that's not my idea of a green rolling vista . you know, a green rolling vista. you know, i don't sing jerusalem thinking about a disused car wash. so that's where i'm at on this. about a disused car wash. so that's where i'm at on this . but that's where i'm at on this. but i'm not offended, and i don't think anyone ought to be offended by the meme if you are. >> it'sjust offended by the meme if you are. >> it's just tiresome. yeah, right. like like , as a woman right. i like like, as a woman and you see yourself represented in , you can just in a certain way, you can just 90, in a certain way, you can just go, yeah. it just makes you go, oh, yeah. it just makes you roll your eyes. >> well, as a woman, you're always welcome. >> as our diane, i am going next. >> so, the thing i saw, which i think is, fascinating, mcdonalds have got a billboard. and the netherlands, people who own this mcdonald's have decided to advertise haptically by pumping the smell of fries out of the billboards . so you walk past billboards. so you walk past this mcdonald's billboard and you can smell the fries. and i

think it's an absolutely revolting idea, but it's very clever because mcdonald's all smells the same. you know, if somebody's eating on a train , somebody's eating on a train, you can smell it. three carriages off. but i, i just don't like it because it's this is a this is a such a big corporate entity. if they did this at every single mcdonald's my god holy counties would smell of it. i think it's horrible. >> wouldn't it be wonderful ? oh, >> wouldn't it be wonderful? oh, i do love the smell of a mcdonald's. it does lure me in. >> oh, that's what you're wearing . wearing. >> how did you know it's ultimate chicken sandwich. >> do you know i've got bad news for you, diane? >> because every subway you go past pumps out a smell that, famously was one of their marketing tactics . and i think marketing tactics. and i think it works. i noticed the other day it was a women's clothes shop.i day it was a women's clothes shop. i was walking past, not for myself and, they i noticed they were pumping out a sort of perfume smell and it immediately drew attention. so it's a drew my attention. so it's a very effective technique. >> i say, though, but

>> well, i will say, though, but you're a subway. was it you're but a subway. was it pumping out the premises? pumping out of the premises? because this particular, smelling board is a distance away from the actual restaurant. so you sort of you drive past the billboard, you get the smell of mcdonald's , and then you of mcdonald's, and then you drive forward and then you finally see the sign. i mean, do you not think that's. >> and how did they get the smell of mcdonald's? not at mcdonald's. you know, i get it. when subway's. so they when it's a subway's. so they put fries and then like a fan or something. yeah. >> blowing out fries into the into a chute and it blows the smell out . gosh. smell out. gosh. >> what if the bird goes in and just eats them? >> well, i hope that bird be you, bird . you, bird. >> or is that bird called alby? yes. >> okey dokey . right. next. i'm >> okey dokey. right. next. i'm going next. and. well, it's sadiq khan . and if your blood sadiq khan. and if your blood pressure is high already, you want to turn off the telly right now because it's about to be even higher. advice. are please don't. am sadiq khan. don't. i am sadiq khan. apparently his climate ambitions

can only be met. his carbon emission reduction plans can only be met if he brings about a charge. it's basically attaching onto his ulez scheme to make you pay onto his ulez scheme to make you pay mile per mile , for, well, pay mile per mile, for, well, basically funding his green agenda. and this has come from an official report within the office of the mayor of london and i just think, what more can he possibly do to those who are struggling, to those who can't afford to get a new, trendy, new car and all these other things? you know, we're not all elon musk. it doesn't come naturally to all of us having all of this cash. so i'm worried about this. and i think a lot of people will be deeply angry if this goes ahead. and it's not admitting to it, it's not admitting to it. >> this is what the scam >> this is this is what the scam is of sadiq khan's election coming up the of london coming up as the mayor of london on 2nd of may, he is saying on the 2nd of may, he is saying two people's no, no, two people's faces. no, no, we're going to bring pay we're not going to bring in pay per then we know that

per mile. but then we know that this is what's up back. yeah, this is what's up is back. yeah, yeah, it is. yeah, we know it is. >> which is what you were going to there. >> which is what you were going to baxley. a. >> which is what you were going to baxley. baxley >> baxley. baxley >> baxley. baxley >> yes, is what i meant to >> yes, it is what i meant to say. and actually, that's why it's on it's so important that on the 2nd may, even i know 2nd of may, even though i know it's very advertised, it's not been very advertised, that we've got to get it's not been very advertised, that hall we've got to get it's not been very advertised, that hall intoe got to get it's not been very advertised, that hall into cityt to get it's not been very advertised, that hall into city hall. et susan hall into city hall. >> oh, well, well, well, she's gonna no electioneering gonna have no electioneering here. we'll have no electioneering here. benjamin butterworth, electioneering here. benjamin butteinow,1, electioneering here. benjamin butteinow, please . thing now, please. >> well, i mean, it's just a lie. it's a complete lie . sadiq lie. it's a complete lie. sadiq khan has been explicit on every single occasion that this won't happen. and there's a great irony in this because there was a man who suggested a similar thing not long ago, and he is the minister. and so it's the prime minister. and so it's not as though the only not as though he's the only person, know, the only offer person, you know, the only offer pay person, you know, the only offer pay mile. yeah. it about pay per mile. yeah. it was about a ago. there was a year ago. there was a suggestion that the government looked because when looked at. right, because when electric the electric cars come in, the amount road and the amount of road tax and the benefits from that and the petrol everything is going benefits from that and the pefall everything is going benefits from that and the pefall significantly.ig is going benefits from that and the pefall significantly. so; going benefits from that and the pefall significantly. so they1g to fall significantly. so they looked at replacing it with that. no. right. but that's what's happening here. you say there was a report from a

department that won't be a political department of the mayor of london, and sadiq khan has exactly has said, no, that's exactly what else is he what rishi sunak how else is he going afford his green plans going to afford his green plans in? i mean, don't know in? well, i mean, i don't know what plans you're what the what plans you're referring saying referring to that you're saying will it a will cost money, but it is a complete lie by this horrible, desperate tory woman. >> but, well, i'm not a woman. >> but, well, i'm not a woman. >> but, well, i'm not a woman. >> but let's remember that the science said that there were barely any results from this, that the ulez actually that the ulez doesn't actually contribute much sadiq khan contribute as much as sadiq khan said it would, and he went through with it, even though it's undemocratic , it's completely undemocratic, like was against it. like everybody was against it. >> connor next. >> all right. it's connor next. connon >> all right. it's connor next. connor, what have you got? >> well, it's time to incriminate myself as having the music taste of a teenage girl. so, taylor swift noted pop star around the world released her newest album yesterday. the tortured poets department. now in esteem, it doesn't come in my esteem, it doesn't come close 1989, some the close to 1989, as some of the singles from midnights, but that's not the she's that's not the reason she's actually the headlines actually been in the headlines for last few months. for the last few months. instead, anticipation instead, in anticipation of the american quite few american election, quite a few trump conservatives trump supporting conservatives are lift that

are fearing a swift lift that a swift endorsement of biden will help his ailing in the polls. so do conservatives risk alienating young women ? scaremongering young women? scaremongering about the influence taylor swift will have over the next election. >> i'm so sorry. i'm going to bnng >> i'm so sorry. i'm going to bring down the tone and ask you to sing your favourite taylor swift song. >> favourite all. i don't know if lavender haze is in my is in my but it's me, i doubt my range, but it's me, i doubt it. hi, i'm the problem. >> me i got very well done >> it's me i got very well done that's going to get clipped. it's live in infamy. that's going to get clipped. it's well, live in infamy. that's going to get clipped. it's well, i live in infamy. that's going to get clipped. it's well, i think] infamy. that's going to get clipped. it's well, i think allfamy. that's going to get clipped. it's well, i think all the r. that's going to get clipped. it's well, i think all the people >> well, i think all the people that took darren's advice to turn will be turn the telly off will be making the right decision. >> that's fine, i mean, >> that's fine, look, i mean, you know, should be no you know, it should be no surprise men in the surprise that old men in the republican the us right republican party, the us right wing terrified of wing party, are terrified of young women being able to speak for themselves. that's probably why they've rolled back abortion rights from rights to the 1800s. from a bloke married a 12 year old bloke that married a 12 year old in arizona, you know, and so it actually, i think it's quite revealing that they are so scared and they're sort of an element of sort of media bullying and trying to threaten her, you know, fox news presenters you mustn't do presenters saying you mustn't do

this. she incredibly this. look, she is incredibly influential. no doubt influential. there's no doubt about that. and i think she probably will endorse joe biden when it gets to it. but that's her decision. like any her decision. just like any other pop do you mind other pop star, do you mind naming those exact fox news presenters you of presenters that you accused of bullying no. presenters that you accused of bul i'm; no. presenters that you accused of buli'm sure no. presenters that you accused of buli'm sure you can. >> i'm sure you can. unsubstantiated. it's not. >> you know, there's loads of clips. there's a massive ferrari about why. you know, because obviously this obviously she's got this southern country and they southern country roots and they were saying, going to were saying, oh, she's going to alienate because at one alienate them all because at one point used to say, point she, she did used to say, you she won't get involved you know, she won't get involved in that. >> p- p— e feels that she has to >> now she feels that she has to . i daresay that's because . and i daresay that's because people i think i think people like you, i think i think 2018, came out against 2018, she came out against marsha because of roe marsha blackburn because of roe v i think that's because v wade. i think that's because of people like actually of people like you actually saying a duty to saying that she's got a duty to do. use her platform to do. so use her platform to spread about your woke agenda. >> as much as i wish they talk about abortion, stella creasy wants decriminalise it all wants to decriminalise it all together . together. >> infanticide. that's what you want about? want to bring about? >> yeah , just the idea that >> yeah, just the idea that women aren't criminalised for decisions body. decisions about their own body. i think is a theme that most,

most british people agree with, that , let north most british people agree with, that, let north american. that, let alone north american. >> true. >> that's even remotely true. it's baby's body. it's it's also a baby's body. it's independent from the woman. >> well, i'm just >> so that's well, i'm just glad you debate without you did one debate without talking race, you talking about race, but, you know, swift an know, i think taylor swift is an icon of millions of people. >> all right. benjamin you're going well, next i going now, well, next up, i don't know we're sentient don't know if we're sentient beings, fish it turns beings, but fish are. it turns out, so there's been a massive study, 38 experts from around the world have confirmed research that says that animals like fish are sentient. they have the kind of feelings and emotional reactions that we human beings have. so they found that if you put a tiny ball in front of a bee, it will play with it, they found that crayfish benefit from antidepressants and also that, oh, fish , if you put a mirror in oh, fish, if you put a mirror in front of a fish, it will eventually recognise itself, though i assume it will then promptly that that's a promptly forget that that's a self. yes. now, do you think we're a bit out of touch? you know, we've come a long way on the fact that of how we treat animals and we understand

animals and how we understand their, quite their, you know, they're quite similar just news though. >> thought we knew this >> i always thought we knew this in the times. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> was it. well, i always thought animals thought we knew that animals were sentient but were sentient beings, but i don't think we thought a fish like that. >> but was going to say, >> yeah, but i was going to say, does this more sort of say more about because, mean, does this more sort of say more ab0|look because, mean, does this more sort of say more ab0|look instagram se, mean, does this more sort of say more ab0|look instagram se, the an, you look at instagram and the cats of typing things cats are kind of typing things on keyboards , you know, you on keyboards, you know, are you just baby? just had a baby? >> isn't person. are we >> isn't the person. why are we even debating this? >> right, all right, all right. >> still ahead it's the >> still ahead though, it's the part where you part of the show where you wonderful viewers . if wonderful viewers. if you haven't off after haven't turned off after my request, charge . no request, you take charge. no topics are off limits as you get topics are off limits as you get to ask the five you're with the saturday five live on gb

welcome back to the saturday five, folks. it's now time for this . oh, the scariest part of this. oh, the scariest part of the show. let's see what you've

got for us this week. this is from tj. tj says diane, since this country is a laughing stock , we might as well elect a comedian as prime minister, which of your fellow comics might be up to the job? >> oh, i mean, like, i'm a little bit upset that you didn't think i would be like, that's where it was going. >> but i, i mean, diane spencer for world president . for world president. >> oh, yes. >> oh, yes. >> wondrous. i look great in crown. >> well, if i had to pick from my esteemed colleagues surrounding me, i think i'd go with darren. >> oh, well, there we are. >> oh, well, there we are. >> well, that is comical, no, i think diane , the problem is, if think diane, the problem is, if you were prime minister, everyone would think it's angela rayner that's become pm. >> oh, centre of britain . i did >> oh, centre of britain. i did not . not lie. >> there is an ongoing police investigation. yes, i, thomas de . all right. this is from daphne. daphne says hi five. you look like fine athletes. not. oh, well, daphne , are any of you

oh, well, daphne, are any of you fat? >> five yeah. >> five yeah. >> are any of the mcdonald's five. are any of you doing the london marathon tomorrow morning? no, i will be smelling mcdonald's latest billboard, which is made of fries. is anyone doing the london? >> absolutely not. >> absolutely not. >> i have a bad knee, i like to do yoga though , and i find that do yoga though, and i find that walking is just as good for you andifs walking is just as good for you and it's less pressure on your joints. >> well, connor, you're not fat. are you doing the you couldn't catch me dead. >> i do actually have a bad knee. and need to take my nan knee. and i need to take my nan to church in morning, it to church in the morning, so it kind conflicts with are kind of conflicts with that are on does the marathon kick off? i >> does the marathon kick off? i don't know. >> does the marathon kick off? i dori: know. >> does the marathon kick off? i dori don't know. >> does the marathon kick off? i dori don't think. >> does the marathon kick off? i dori don't think i don't think >> i don't think i don't think it will affect you. >> look, the only time i run is when wine are about to close. >> so yes, we can shove champagne down his trousers. >> and right is in >> and right now, this is in from duncan. duncan says , oh, from duncan. duncan says, oh, great tonight. there's great show tonight. but there's a but you chumps have not a but but you chumps have not mentioned the biggest story of the week. the end of the fa cup replays . no. are you happy to

replays. no. are you happy to see the ruin of the greatest football tournament in the world? wait a minute, butterworth . butterworth. >> no, wait, i haven't heard about this. what are they doing? >> i love the sports ball community, you know, i think straight people should have rights, but, i have no idea what an fa replay is. >> you see, i do know what an fa replay is. and i do think for people that follow football, it is a really big deal for them . is a really big deal for them. connor i'm going to imagine that you follow football. how do you feel about this as the only straight panel? straight man on the panel? >> no, don't follow football, >> no, i don't follow football, mate. afraid you've let mate. i'm afraid you've let yourself connor, yourself down, connor, i probably i was more of probably have. i was more of a rugby boy, and even then i couldn't gumshields rugby boy, and even then i cou mud. gumshields the mud. >> diane, he has just >> i mean, diane, he has just assumed ender. assumed george ender. >> well, i identify as a yeovil town football fan, so we're not technically football sometimes. >> all right . >> all right. >> all right. >> we've got a final one in from janet. she says hi five. love the show and great to see diane and connor tonight. who would be your dream guest to have on the

show ? anyone but this for, it's show? anyone but this for, it's my answer, who would be your dream guest? who would you like to appear on site alongside? >> i think catherine tate would be hilarious , wouldn't she? oh, be hilarious, wouldn't she? oh, yeah.i be hilarious, wouldn't she? oh, yeah. i love catherine tate. >> doctor diane morgan. >> i like doctor diane morgan. >> i like doctor diane morgan. >> yeah. oh, yeah. everyone's favourite diane ginger women. >> yeah, yeah, i like doctor maggie aderin—pocock. she's always been my favourite. or, that lady suzi perry who presents moto gp and she used to do the formula one. love her. >> i think doing it with someone like kenneth williams would have been hilarious. if i'm allowed to people , the or to say dead people, the show or the yes. this show. the show. yes. doing this show. >> . keeping with alby's >> yeah. keeping with alby's orange president trump orange theme, president trump giving minutes would be hysterical. >> that be very good, >> that would be very good, benjamin, i mean, it'd be nice to have one of our, our best known colleague, boris johnson, be pretty good to have him on the panel. it'd be good for him to finally explain some of the mess he made. >> all right. and i'd quite like to linda on to invite derek and linda on since about so since spoken about so vociferously tonight. thank you

very tonight, very much to our guests tonight, though, wonderful diane though, the wonderful diane spencer tomlinson. spencer and connor tomlinson. next , the brilliant leo next up, the brilliant leo kearse with the saturday night showdown. cheers very much for watching. we'll see you again next . next week. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news. >> good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather from the met office. high pressure is sticking around through the rest of the weekend, but we will start to see some rain arriving in the north. it is that in the north. but it is that area high pressure that will area of high pressure that will be weather, so be dominating our weather, so bringing more settled bringing us some more settled conditions. these conditions. however, these weather to the north weather fronts out to the north will a bit in the will bring us a bit more in the way of rain as we head through sunday the new week. sunday and into the new week. plenty around through plenty of cloud around through the rest of this evening, spilling way southwards spilling its way southwards across much of england and into parts of wales into the early hours morning. but hours of the morning. but southeastern of england, southeastern parts of england, northern ireland, western scotland to scotland probably holding on to some turning some clearer skies and turning chilly some frost chilly here, perhaps some frost in under all that

in places. but under all that cloud as cloud generally not quite as cold. the single cold. although the high single figures possible. so a bit figures are possible. so a bit of a cloudier start, particularly eastern parts particularly for eastern parts of scotland, some outbreaks of rain their way rain spilling their way southwards through sunday morning. but eastern parts of england, northern ireland, western scotland still holding on some of that sunshine, on to some of that sunshine, perhaps showers across perhaps 1 or 2 showers across the southeast, but it the very far southeast, but it should staying most should be staying dry for most places away that cloud, and places away from that cloud, and rain that cloud and rain rain under that cloud and rain still feeling chilly. still feeling quite chilly. we're into we're struggling to reach into the double figures across some nonh the double figures across some north further north sea coast, but further south, or 15 south, highs of 14 or 15 degrees. does start degrees. monday does start a little bit cloudier for most of us. outbreaks of rain spreading their way southwards across much of through monday, of the uk through monday, perhaps parts of perhaps southeastern parts of england, on to bit of england, holding on to a bit of sunshine through afternoon sunshine through the afternoon and in that and feeling warm in that sunshine, much chillier sunshine, but much chillier elsewhere . further showers elsewhere. further showers through tuesday wednesday, elsewhere. further showers throthose jesday wednesday, elsewhere. further showers throthose temperaturesadnesday, elsewhere. further showers throthose temperatures slowly ay, but those temperatures slowly starting to return closer to average as we head through the second week . second half of the week. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> good evening. i'm sophia wenzler in the gb newsroom. your top story this hour? ukraine president volodymyr zelenskyy is grateful after the us house of representatives approved £49 billion in foreign aid for ukraine. democrat s and republicans joined together after months of deadlock over renewed american support to help ukraine fend off russia's invasion. meanwhile, moscow says the passage of the bill would further ruin ukraine and result in more deaths . the campaign in more deaths. the campaign against antisemitism is calling for the met police chief to resign or be sacked over the force's handling of pro—palestinian demonstrations, after an officer used the terms openly jewish to describe an anti—semitism. activist. gideon

falter was