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i'm jose diaz-balart. we're awaiting remarks from president biden at the white house any minute now. he's expected to speak about the campus protests across the country. we're going to take you as soon as the president starts to speak. you will see it right here along with us. first, we begin with former president donald trump's hush money trial. keith davidson who arranged hush money payments is back on the stand. he is testifying about a payment he negotiated on behalf of adult film actress stormy daniels, which is at the heart of this case. now, trump denies the women's claims in all of the charges against him. davidson's testimony follows nearly 45 minute hearing on four more alleged violations of the gag order, imposed on him by the judge. earlier this week, trump was held in contempt of court and fined $9,000 for nine violations of the order banning him from speaking publicly about witnesses, jurors and others connected to the case. with us now to talk more about

this, msnbc national correspondent yasmin vossoughian, outside the courthouse, in manhattan, jeffrey sluman, timothy heefy and christie greenburg. so, yasmin, take us into the courtroom, what is happening right now? >> yeah, let's take a step back and i'll go forward, jose, for a moment, as we talk quickly about the gag order hearing that happened earlier today. there were four potential violations made, it seemed as if judge juan merchan was not as concerned with potentially this gag order violation in which the former president talked about david pecker saying he was a nice guy, more concerned with the attacks on michael cohen and especially concerned with the attacks and/or comments made i should say about the jury saying 95% of the jury was made up of democrats. and, again, i want to warn folks, we're likely not to get a decision on potential violations of this gag order immediately. the last one took about seven

days or so, we're expecting the same sort of timeline now. they're now in direct, once again, the people's attorney when it comes to keith davidson on the stand now, offering testimony, honing in on this november of 2018 article that was published in "the wall street journal," when it comes to stormy daniels, and the title of the piece, just to kind of bring folks up to date as to what they're talking about was "donald trump played a central role in hush money payoffs to stormy daniels and karen mcdougal." that was the title of the piece. they're talking with keith davidson about that piece that was published in "the wall street journal." there was a back and forth between steinglass and davidson, when it came to this piece, saying this, and this is a text from davidson to michael cohen. "wall street journal" called stormy, she didn't answer, they say they're running the story and have a deadline of tonight for her to comment. a strong denial comment for her like you did before.

and steinglass asks, a denial of what. and davidson saying, everything, steinglass goes on to say, did you send a denial to stormy to sign? davidson says, i don't recall. that is what they're talking about now. there is also the issue that they went over a little bit earlier, when it came to the agreement made between the shell company, michael cohen, dylan howard, who is acting as the mediator because it seems as if keith davidson didn't have trust in michael cohen at the time and stormy daniels and karen mcdougal and the money that was eventually paid off. and david dennison, who is the pseudonym name used for donald trump, they talked about who actually signed, jose this agreement, and they honed in on whether or not david dennison signed this agreement, the pseudonym for donald trump, in which they said he did not sign the agreement. michael cohen signed on behalf of david dennison, so they're

focusing in on the timeline, leading up to the november 11 election and what took place after the election as keith davidson continued to serve as stormy daniels' attorney. >> there is so much here. let me start with you, christie, what is the importance of this? they're going line by line on as yasmin was telling us what the people were supposed to say, now talking about davidson's actually saying, i think you have to hone in on the definition of romantic, sexual and affair. they're really going detailed word for word. what is this leading towards? >> well, so, this agreement, where you have the david dennison who is this pseudonym for donald trump and peggy peterson, the pseudonym for stormy daniels, the prosecutors are wanting to show that donald trump knew about this, and so the defense will say, well, look, there is a signature line for david dennison and his

signature isn't there. so, maybe they will try to use this as plausible deniability that he wasn't involved, that cohen was negotiating this really without involving the president. but michael cohen is presumably going to say, i showed this to him, or i spoke to him about this document, he was well aware of what these payments were for, we were in communication, and so, you know, this -- the fact that he didn't sign it doesn't mean that donald trump did not know about it. but i assume that is why they're focused on the signature lines in particular. >> so, jeffrey, let's talk a little bit about what davidson is bringing to the prosecution's side. it has been interesting because there was a period here just about five minutes ago when davidson was talking about how michael cohen called him, and essentially was very upset that he had not been called to serve with trump in washington. it is interesting, because that's not a positive for cohen. what is the prosecution's theory

here? >> i think they're going into granular detail about michael cohen is not doing this for michael cohen. michael cohen is doing this for donald trump. so they're going through the granular detail of the signatures, of pseudonyms, of michael cohen signing on behalf of david dennison. and so this didn't happen because michael cohen was trying to do this for himself. he took out $130,000 loan on his house, transferred it on october 26th, the week or around a week before the election. this was all happening, according to the prosecution, to squash this information, which played into the whole videotape of trump talking about grabbing, you know, women by their private parts.

so, this was explosive and donald trump and michael cohen and the whole white house apparatus is trying to squash this story. >> so, jeffrey, what is it that -- how does the prosecutor team deal with a witness, who they haven't brought up yet, but has already been mentioned over and over again, that has, well, credibility issues, how does the prosecution prepare for that? >> well, that's what they're doing. they are laying the foundation for the star witness michael cohen. >> i hate to interrupt you. president biden is about to speak. let's go to the white house. >> -- on our college campuses here. we have all seen images and they put to the test two fundamental american principles. excuse me. the first is the right to free speech. and for people to peacefully assemble and make their voices heard. the second is the rule of law. both must be upheld.

we are not an authoritarian nation where we silence people or squash dissent. the american people are heard. in fact, peaceful protests is in the best tradition of how americans respond to controversial issues, but neither are we a lawless country. we are a civil society. and order must prevail. throughout our history we often faced moments like this because we are a big diverse free thinking and freedom loving nation. and in moments like this, they're there are always those who rush in to score political points. this isn't a moment for politics. this is a moment for clarity. so let me be clear. peaceful protests in america, violent protest is not protected. peaceful protest is. it is against the law when violence occurs. destroying property is not a peaceful protest. it is against the law. vandalism, trespassing, breaking

windows, shutting down campuses, forcing the cancellation of classes and graduations, none of this is a peaceful protest. threatening people, intimidating people, instilling fear in people is not peaceful protest. it is against the law. dissent must never lead to disorder or denying the rights of others so students can finish the semester and their college education. look, basically a matter of fairness. it is a matter of what's right. it is the right to protest, but not the right to cause chaos. people have the right to get an education. the right to get a degree. the right to walk across the campus safely without fear of being attacked. let's be clear about this as well. there should be no place in any campus, no place in america, for antisemitism, threats of violence against jewish students. there is no place for hate speech or violence of any kind, whether it is antisemitism,

islamophobia, discrimination against arab-americans or palestinian-americans. it is simply wrong. there is no place for racism in america. it is all wrong. it is un-american. i understand people have strong feelings and deep convictions. in america, we respect the right and protect the right for them to express that. but it doesn't mean anything goes. it needs to be done without violence, without destruction, without hate, within the law. i'll make no mistake, as president i will always defend free speech. i will always be just as strong in standing up for the rule of law. that's my responsibility to you, the american people. my obligation to the constitution. thank you very much. >> mr. president, has the protests forced you to reconsider any of the policies with regard to the region? >> no. thank you. >> mr. president, do you think the national guard should intervene?

>> no. >> mr. president -- >> well, there you saw, president biden from the roosevelt room, very short but very concrete speech. want to bring in nbc's mike memoli, nbc's steve patterson live at the ucla campus and hagar chemali. tell us about when this decision was taken to have the president speak. >> well, jose, these remarks were not on the public schedule when we began the day. the president will be traveling later today to the state of north carolina to deliver remarks about his administration's infrastructure plan. but this is a moment that has been building for some time and there have been growing calls from some of the president's allies to take more of a public stand here, to speak out about these growing demonstrations, growing violent demonstrations. this is a difficult moment in any environment, but particularly in the political

environment that we're in now, just months before a presidential election. you saw the president address that head on, saying this is not a time to score political points. but this is also a moment that really biden allies have been calling for him to do just what he did, which is try to bridge these divides, to talk, yes, about the fact that we are a country that is not an authoritarian nation, as he put it, we respect the right for protests, the right to free speech, but neither are we a lawless country as the president put it. i think also it is important, jose in this moment, to remember where we were four years ago at this time, also at a presidential election. we saw protests across the country in the aftermath of the murder of george floyd, the black lives matter protests, some of those clashes between law enforcement and protesters, including right behind me in lafayette park, we remember when donald trump was the president, that dramatic scene when he stormed through those protests to speak in front of st. john's church. then candidate joe biden was strongly denouncing donald trump for that posture. and it was a moment when he

pointed to the lawlessness, the chaos, under donald trump. what did we see yesterday, candidate donald trump out speaking in michigan and wisconsin, criticizing the biden administration for not doing enough to crack down on these protests. so, this was really an important moment for the president, not just to address these pictures leading the newscasts all over the country, but also to reinforce the principles of democracy, in his view, that, yes, we're seeing a lot of the loud noise, but we also need to respect those who are just students trying to go to school, trying to finish their classes, want to have their graduation, and we also expect to hear the president continue on this theme next week. the white house announcing he'll deliver major speech on the rise of antisemitism, which is of particular concern. >> paint a picture us for what is occurring and what occurred overnight at ucla. >> we just have been pushed out of the encampment, the

encampment has been disassembled by police who swept through overnight, starting in the early morning hours, with riot gear, obviously, with flashbangs, using nonlethal weaponry to push their way into barricades that have now been pushed down. now being reconstructed as now you see all that is left is sort of a mess behind me after the protesters were forcibly removed, many of them arrested. we're hearing over 130 arrests right now. you can see them erecting this barricade, they're going to clean this entire area. they just pushed all the media out, they're putting up the barriers again so they can sweep through here and make this sanitized and safe again. and that was really the mission of this. they wanted to push protesters out, to give students their safe space back. this is the library and royce hall, two iconic buildings on the campus of ucla. and their mission was to do it in a manner in which not only to

protect themselves as far as the police force, and the students on campus, but the protesters as well. i think that fits with the president's message. this was always about students being able to feel safe. ucla was one of the places where they wanted to keep the protesters here. they didn't mind having a place for free speech. i think it just became, according to the university, an obstacle to feeling that sense of safety, especially after the counterprotesters clashed with the protesters, just a few nights ago, leading to where we are now, which is police, again, coming in, very, very heavily, doing what they had to do efficiently to peel down the barriers here, to remove everybody from this space. and to bring it back to what it was, which is a quad. jose? >> so, steve, i'd like to take advantage that you're there and the camera person is there. just zoom in, let me see what is left behind there, and as -- if

you don't mind, while you're doing that, i want an idea of -- these people had been here for days and this is what is left behind. how many people were taken out? >> well, first of all, you would not have been able to see inside this. from our vantage point right now, there would be boards lining this entire essentially barrier between regular student life and this protest which had grown into an encampment, which had grown into a sprawling, you know, sense of protesting. and one that had been constructed over the course of the week or so. one that had been then fortified when protesters had learned that police were going to come in. so, i mean, there would have been huge sort of plywood over the entirety, almost forming a wall, over this entire thing. i can't tell you how many protesters there were in total because i think the number fluctuated.

i also can't tell you how many protesters were students or faculty, only that we know that a few of them were and a few of them weren't. what i can tell you is the reason why the university felt what they did what they had to do, which is that sense of safety and ease on campus, and for students to be able to do their work, essentially. we were to the point where students couldn't have class, class was canceled. it is now remote at this point due to the action that had to be taken by police, but i think the university just became concerned that this became about more than learning and that should never be on a college campus. yes, what you saw is what is left of this and before it was a complete tent city there was nothing but tents and people and obviously the signs of protest that we saw throughout this week. and it is just reduced to essentially the rubble of protests. looks like a tornado has hit here, but eventually it won't as

police are moving back in to try to get this all sanitized, jose. >> yeah. steve, thank you very much. hagar, your thoughts on this, just 24 hours ago it was columbia university, and the college, you know, new york college, college of new york, in new york, and now we're talking about ucla. the president was very clear on that there is a difference between peaceful protest and violent protest. and having classes canceled, the president said, is not peaceful protest. and yet that's what we're seeing over and over again. we're seeing graduation ceremonies being affected. commencement affected. what is it that you think, hagar, is it too little too late to be talking about this? >> no, jose, you know, because my view is that these universities, including my own columbia university was really trying -- they were trying to work every which angle, they

were trying to support academic freedom and free speech, to a point, really, where it made many students feel uncomfortable and unsafe and to the point where classes were canceled or taken virtually or whatever, and at the same time, trying to figure out how they could support that goal of academing freedom and free speech while maintaining order and also creating an environment that supports what students are there to do, which is really to study and learn. and i'm really happy the president came out. i wish it would have been a bit earlier to be honest with you, but he came out at a good time where -- he has the bully pulpit of the world, and this is important because when you're talking about somebody like me, one adjunct professor or a pundit or whoever, it is not the same as having the white house come out and say, this is what's right, and this is what's wrong. i feel a significant generational divide on this one. i've spoken out about it, and that's very clear, but it is our job, as educators, to guide

these students and that's the thing that kills me the most in this whole thing is that there is a proper way to protest and, by the way, an effective way of protesting, and when you get violent, when you invite outside agitators, when you include violence or you include language that incites or calls for violence, and that's antisemitic or hateful in general, automatically your protest loses credibility and the professors could have guided this, rather than land themselves in the place where the students themselves are getting arrested, now they'll have a criminal record, some of them are expelled, it is just not the right way to have guided these students from the beginning. >> mike memoli, steve patterson, hagar chemali, thank you very much. we're back in 60 seconds. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. ds you're watching "jose

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22 past the hour. right now in donald trump's hush money trial, keith davidson, a lawyer who used to represent stormy daniels and karen mcdougal, is back on the stand. and back with us, msnbc national correspondent yasmin vossoughian, outside the courthouse, in lower manhattan, and back with us, jeffrey sloman, timothy heefy and christie greenburg. what is happening in the courtroom in this time that we were listening to the president? >> reporter: they're talking about exchanges between keith davidson, michael cohen. this timeline is important. it was august of 2018 in which michael cohen pled guilty and then subsequently alleged that donald trump directed him to make the payments to stormy daniels and karen mcdougal which set everything really in motion in the investigations put into place by the manhattan d.a. here. and let me read for you some of the back and forth we got from the courtroom when it came to this testimony from keith davidson starting with this.

in january of 2018, this is michael cohen saying i have her scheduled, call me after the trial. this is michael cohen saying this to keith davidson and steinglass said, the attorney for the people, your client appeared on hannity? and davidson said, yes, but she is did not appear on hannity. this is davidson to cohen, this is michael cohen's pants on fire stages, trying to frantically address stormy's story being public. he was frantic. this is a text from michael cohen to keith davidson, the wise men all believe the story is dying and don't think it is smart for her to do any interviews. let her do her thing, but no interviews at all with anyone. and to be clear, 100% davidson, she never appeared on hannity to my knowledge. this is a text from cohen to davidson, thanks, pal. i think this is important because it is kind of also the prosecution setting up the fact that michael cohen was actively working for donald trump all the

way up until his guilty plea in august of 2018. talk about the timeline of what we heard so far from keith davidson, this shell company, this pseudonym used for donald trump, signing on behalf of donald trump, working frantically for and on behalf of donald trump to make sure this story did not get out. and he worked on behalf of the former president, his former employer, up until august of 2018 in which he pled guilty. i think it is important, considering the fact that part of the cross examination, both by the former president's attorneys, along with when they cross on michael cohen, when he subsequently takes the stand, is going to chip away at michael cohen's credibility. here, the prosecution is setting up this idea that michael cohen was working very hard and frantically for the former president throughout to his time as his attorney, jose. >> again, you know, it is interesting, jeffrey, it seems as though there is a lot of effort under way to talk about

and even describe michael cohen, what he did do, what he didn't do, his access to the president, former president. and not. he's not a witness yet. and yet there are a lot of contradictions in cohen and his testimony, so, what is steinglass and others attempting to do in preparation for cohen? >> well, documents don't lie. so, i think up to this point the documents, the text messages are all setting the stage for michael cohen's testimony, so michael cohen does get cross-examined, the jury is going to be left with, okay, so what? he's only -- he's only reiterating what the documents say, what he was doing, according to the bank witnesses, what keith davidson said, what everybody else said, so, unless michael cohen takes a right turn

and goes some place else, the prosecution is just going to have the narrator, michael cohen, and, you know, his credibility is, you know, he's going to be impeached about why he's doing this. about his prior conviction. but he pled guilty to the same thing and he wasn't doing this, again, for his own benefit, he was doing this because clearly the timing of october 26th, october 27th, the election was a week away. this was pretty, pretty clear that this was being done for -- to influence the election. >> it is documents don't lie, but sometimes documents reflect other realities, i guess, i could put it. i'm looking at one of the conversations that is going on now between the prosecution and davidson is the document that

stormy daniels' statement to the jury, quote, i am not denying this affair because i was paid hush money, i am denying this affair because it never happened. and then steinglass asked davidson, how would you characterize the truthfulness of this statement and davidson says it is technically true, i don't think anyone had ever alleged there was a relationship between stormy and trump, a relationship is an ongoing interaction. once again, to try and define words and actions, but what do you see here as being the most important part of this, i guess, logical structure, sentence structure going forward? >> yeah, jose, just as jeffrey said, anytime you have a witness in a criminal case who has credibility issues, who will be impeached with prior conviction for being untruthful, you have to corroborate him. the whole ball game for the district attorney is to be able to say to the jury, you can believe michael cohen, because

you plug his testimony in to all these text messages, the testimony of other witnesses, and it is all consistent. in other words, they don't have to rely on his word alone, when they plug his word into the other evidence, it bolsters his credibility. all of these text messages, even though they are well after the allegations of the hush money payment demonstrate that michael cohen had a continuing professional relationship with the former president, was actively working to prevent these salacious stories from coming out, and that really goes to underlying motive for the falsification of business records. it is all contextual. it sets up the more central evidence which will be the testimony of cohen himself. >> interesting. so, back to the gag order hearing the judge held earlier today. the prosecution said they were not seeking for trump to be put in jail for it.

what is the judge considering here? >> well, the prosecutors are not asking for jail. the other penalty under the statute is a $1,000 maximum fine per violation. in other words, a slap on the wrist for donald trump. we're looking at four potential violations here. so $4,000 max. but, again, i do take a step back, the judge said at the last hearing in his decision that these fines really aren't getting the job done. this is not enough to really deter this defendant, who is wealthy. and so, if this continues, and i don't necessarily mean these violations, but any future violations, the judge has made clear he will impose jail time if it is necessary and appropriate under the circumstances. so, even though they're not asking for it here, i expect that is still something that is going to be in consideration if he keeps it up. >> yeah, i mean, jeffrey, prosecutors used some striking language when talking about the

validations saying that trump is, quote, creating an air of menace and his statements are corrosive to any fair administration of justice. what is the significance of using these phrases? >> well, never having had this situation before, i think it is the judge is laying a foundation for what he does -- apparently does not want to do and that is to hold him in contempt and put him in jail. it seems that the judge also feels, it seems, that this is what trump wants him to do. i get the sense that mr. trump is baiting him into doing this, and i don't know whether the judge is going to take the bait. so, what can the judge do? i don't know. you know, he lays this foundation that he uses this descriptive language for i don't know whether it is appellate purposes or the public's

consumption, but it also has to be a foundation for the contempt order that he's considering and he's imposing, progressive punishment, he hasn't jumped right to you're going to jail, it is a thousand dollars per fine, and i don't know how many more messages there are, but it looks like he's going to get a thousand dollars for each one at least at this point. >> and what does the judge have as possible cards in this? it is just the thousand per or jail? >> yeah, it is both. there are limited tools that the judge has to impose sanctions when there is a violation of a court order, financial penalty or incarceration. i think there are different audiences here that the former president is mindful of, one is judge merchan in the courtroom and the jury, but the other is the broader public and it may be that these continual statements out of court are putting some

pressure on the judge to escalate the sanction, which would play into some narrative that he is being persecut edper this is part of a deep state conspiracy. doesn't seem like everything he says, which may be in his view helpful to audience two, the broader public, is helpful to audience one, judge merchan. we may be coming at some point to a conflict where the financial penalties aren't working, the conduct continues, really the only other sanction at that point is some period of incarceration. >> christie, what would that look like? >> it can be done. i trust that law enforcement is up to this task. i mean, there are any number of defendants that have security concerns. not as unique as this one, but where there are separate housing areas, where, you know, he could be separated from the general population. where secret service could be

there to, you know, continue to protect him, even within a facility. we have witness protection, we have protections within facilities. this can be done if the judge determines that it is necessary and appropriate under the circumstances. and i've got to tell you, as a former prosecutor, this is not normal. it is not normal for a defendant to be speaking about the jury at all. to be speaking about witnesses that are testifying. it is dangerous. you're putting a target on the backs of those jurors and those witnesses when you are speaking about them. in particular, when you're saying negative things, like this jury is 95% democrat, and they're against me and, you know, that kind of thing is completely unacceptable and the judge really does need to make clear that that cannot continue and he will not tolerate it and he will put him in jail if he keeps it up. >> and meanwhile, yasmin, in the courtroom, davidson and steinglass are going back and

forth about just the nature of michael cohen and how he reacted to what stormy daniels was about to do or about to say. >> reporter: they are. and really kind of showing the loyalty that michael cohen had, the difference that michael cohen had to donald trump, his client at the time who he worked for, for a very long time. i want to read for you that exchange. one thing i want to double back to is just the statement from stormy daniels that they submitted as an exhibit, saying, for instance, in the statement, davidson reading stormy daniels' statement to the jury saying i'm not denying this affair because i was paid hush money, i'm denying this affair because it never happened. steinglass asks how would you characterize the truthfulness of the statement, and davidson says it is technically true, i don't think anyone had ever alleged there was a relationship between stormy and trump, a relationship is an ongoing interaction, just to remind folks, jose, stormy alleges, stormy daniels also

known as stephanie clifford had a one night stand with donald trump, they met at a celebrity golf tournament, he said he could get her on celebrity apprentice, why they had an ongoing relationship, but the sexual encounter they had only lasted one evening, back in 2006. hence why words here are so important. and why it seems the prosecution is honing in on this very moment, to double back to what you asked me about earlier, talking about when it comes to threats made by michael cohen, showing his loyalty and deference to donald trump, steinglass asking, did cohen threaten lawsuits against stormy daniels? davidson saying, many times. he can be a very aggressive guy. this is davidson speaking, jose, aggressive in his pursuit to protect his clients, saying he would bankrupt her and rain legal hell down upon her. don't blank with us, you can guess what would word was, you don't know who you're blanking

with. regarding the story, did you have an understanding of what michael cohen wanted to do and davidson saying he wanted her to deny her story to protect, jose, his client. >> yeah. and just, jeffrey, all of this, it seems so salacious and so, you know, looks like a telenovela, but what is the purpose of all of this? >> well, sometimes what doesn't get publicized is the testimony of the banker, the testimony of the cnn records custodian. when you read that transcript, and you see the granular detail of what was going on, it was clear, just from those documents alone, and the timing, and the chronology, that this was being done, forget all the salacious stuff, that this was being done for one purpose and one purpose only. the november election was a week away, and this had to get done,

and they felt the purpose of this was to protect donald trump in his election chances. >> and, timothy, it is important for the prosecution to tie trump directly in some way to all of this? >> yeah, absolutely. he's the defendant. he's the one who is being charged with falsification of business records, and the falsification has to essentially forward another criminal scheme, which is the campaign finance or tax violations. so, yes, his state of mind, his involvement, his personal supervision of all this is central to the d.a.'s case. >> yasmin vossoughian, jeffrey sloman, timothy heefy, christine greenburg, thank you. we're going to bring you more from inside the courtroom, plus we'll go to israel for late developments and negotiations of the israel-hamas cease-fire prop proposal. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. and with higher stroke risk from afib not caused

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u.s. opposes an israeli operation in rafah. joining us now from tel aviv is nbc's raf sanchez. it seems as though in this world where it is so difficult to read the tea leaves on what is or is not progress, there could be some progress? >> reporter: that's right, jose. these are difficult leads to read. the whole world has been waiting for days now for hamas to give its formal response to the cease-fire proposal that is on the table. i spoke to an israeli official this morning, they said israel believed that it was likely hamas' response would come today, and as we speak, just about 15 minutes ago, israel's war cabinet began a meeting in anticipation of that response and to start preparing for potential next steps. now, in the last two hours or so, hamas has put out a series of public statements and in one of them, they say the political leader of hamas spoke to a

senior official in the egyptian government, remember, one of the key mediators in these talks, and told the egyptians that hamas negotiators would come to egypt as soon as possible to complete the ongoing discussions with the aim of maturing an agreement. now, jose, i read a lot of hamas statements since october 7th, that does sound positive, in the sense that hamas feels it is worth going back to cairo, once again, to continue these negotiations and that they are talking with the possibility of completing an agreement, but it does also potentially indicate that hamas is not planning to give a definitive answer, one way or another, today. but we will see what comes in the hours from now. it is 6:45 here in israel. we did hear from prime minister benjamin netanyahu earlier on today, before he went into that war cabinet meeting and he acknowledged, jose, there are divisions inside of the israeli government about the way forward

here. some on the far right of his cabinet are saying israel's top priority needs to be going into rafah, destroying the hamas battalions there and more moderate voices inside the israeli government are saying rafah can wait, the priority right now is to get those remaining hostages out alive. there is some new polling out here in israel, jose, that shows that a majority, 54% of israelis support the current deal on the table, and around the same number, 53% say prime minister netanyahu is not doing enough to get that deal over the line. >> so, raf, very quickly, this deal apparently includes, you know, this 40-day cease-fire and the release of 33 hostages. still no proof of life for any of the hostages. still, no evidence how many are alive, and is this deal -- does this mean you release 33 and there is a 40-day cease-fire,

more are released? >> that's right, jose. so the terms you just played on the screen there, that would be in the first stage of a deal. and the hope would be that that can be a building block towards one, a longer cease-fire, but, two, the release of more hostages. exactly as you say, jose, an earlier iteration of this deal called for the release of 40 hostages from this so-called humanitarian category, women, children, the elderly, people with serious medical conditions, and the reason that number is down to 33 is that hamas has indicated it does not have 40 living hostages. we did have proof of life from a couple of hostages including two americans over the last week, but the vast majority we know nothing about their condition. >> raf sanchez in tel aviv, thank you very much. appreciate it. up next, we're going to go back to new york city, where the trial trump is right there, you see, these are live pictures

from right outside the courthouse. trump, of course, on this hush money trial. it is in morning recess, and we'll tell you what is expected to happen when the jury comes back next. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. back next. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. with nurtec odt, i found relief. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis held me back... now with skyrizi, i'm all in with clearer skin. ♪ things are getting clearer...♪ ( ♪♪ ) ♪ i feel free... ♪ ♪ to bear my skin, yeah that's all me. ♪ ♪ nothing is everything ♪

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davidson was on the stand. he will be cross-examined after the break. yesterday, trump held rallies in two major battleground states, invoking his ongoing criminal trial. >> i have come here today from new york city, where i'm being forced to sit for days on end in a kangaroo courtroom with a corrupt and conflicted judge, enduring a biden-side trial, at the hands of a marxist district attorney who is taking orders from the biden administration. >> joining us now, former florida congresswoman stephanie murphy. she served on the house january 6 committee. and susan del percio, msnbc political analyst. susan, this morning, trump's campaign sent a fund-raising note saying he has been, quote, fully gagged.

how do you think he is doing on this effort to capitalize on this trial? >> to date, it hasn't hurt him. you could argue that the early legal woes helped trump through the primary process. if there's a way to fund-raise, donald trump will do it. here is the thing. as i listen to that clip, his shtick is getting old. this is just more and more of the same. i think as different headlines start coming out of the trial, donald trump's going to have some explaining to do to independent swing voters. that's what we really need to talk about. the more he talks to his base, the more he turns off those swing voters. >> yeah, stephanie, the swing voters are saying this day in and day out. what do you think they will say? can people's perception of this change or evolve with the

passing of time? >> you know, i used to represent a district considered a swing part of the swing state. swing voters in districts like mine really aren't tuned into the election at this point in time. i know that we in washington breathlessly watch every minute of this trial and all of the proceedings. the average independent voter, especially in florida, as you know, really don't pick their head up and pay attention to the presidential until it gets closer to the november election date. i think the folks who are base voters, they already either have bought his message that this is a political persecution, or they are going to vote for biden. i'm not sure that these trials really will have that big of an impact other than to affect his money and his cash on hand. he has to fund-raise in order to help pay for these legal cases. >> stephanie, yesterday trump discussed the january 6

insurrection and said he told secret service he wanted to join the protesters at the capitol. listen to this. >> i said, i'd like to go down there. they said, it's better if you don't. i said, i would like to. better if you don't. whatever you think. that was the tone of the conversation. instead, i want to go down. these people are crazy. >> you were part of the january 6 committee. i'm thinking, what was your reaction when you heard that? >> i had always said that it didn't really matter how he expressed his desire to come down to the capitol, it was the fact that he wanted to come down to the capitol to disrupt the proceedings at the capitol. that was the important fact. we had many people testify to the fact that he wanted to do what they call an otr, off the record movement, and come down to the capitol but was advised otherwise. focusing on how he communicated that misses the fact he wanted to come down and disrupt the

proceedings of congress to certify the election. >> by the way, i understand that the former president is heading into the courtroom. these are pictures from literally just two minutes ago. we see the former president getting back into the courtroom. susan, interesting in what you were talking about, about the fact that the story can get old and repeating over and over again something. is there something that the former president could do when the fact is that he has to be in that courtroom every day, and he cannot be campaigning outside, and the reason he was in those two states yesterday is because there was a break in the courtroom? >> but he has the weekends, jose. one of his rallies in north carolina a couple of weeks ago was canceled.

the fact is, donald trump can't afford do that many big rallies. he has a cash on hand problem. these rallies are expensive. i wouldn't expect more than once a week. they are now serving just to feed donald trump's ego. i have seen campaigns do this before. it's not uncommon. keep the boss up, keep him among people who love him. he is not making any real headway as far as when it counts in november. what i will say, his behavior, if it gets worse in the courtroom, could really be interesting in how it plays out. >> the former congresswoman, stephanie murphy, and susan del percio, thank you. we will take a break. in the next hour, we will bring you breaking developments from the trump hush money trial. plus the latest out of ucla after protesters clashed with police this morning. what president biden had to say a short while ago. you are watching "jose diaz-balart reports request the

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