>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with politics and joe scarborough, his book is called the right path from ike to reagan, how republicans once mastered politics and can again. >> we have people again who were so obsessed with being ideologically pure and calling out anybody else that they don't think is ideologically pure that we have forgotten how to win races. it is about winning at the end of the day. if you want to make the country more conservative, if you want to shape the world more in your image, you have got to win elections. >> rose: we conclude with adele exarchopoulos, her movie, which is getting a lot of attention is called blue is the warmest colour. >> and so just give me the

script and he told me read it once and after that, for get it, i don't want you to focus on words, on situation, we will make improvisation and get something from you, we don't, in the play, we are going to play like a game. >> joe scarborough and a new film called blue is the warmest colour, next. funding for charlie rose was provided by the following. >> additional funding provided by these funders. >> and my bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose.

>> mark halperin, john heilemann in double down reveal one of mrs. obama's favorite television programs, something that she watches religiously while she is working out and while he is doing it, she e-mails jarrett when she doesn't like what is being said. >> and what is that? >> that is morning joe. oh, mrs. obama, i am so sorry. >> >> rose: so owe scarborough is here he is the host of morning joe on msnbc. he was a republican congressman representing florida's first district from 1995 to 2001. his new book is called the right path from ike to reagan, how republicans once mastered politics and can again again. william crystal has said if you are interest manager the republican future you need to read the right path i am pleased to have joe scarborough back at this table, welcome. >> it is great to be here. >> rose: so tell me why you wrote this.

>> well, we are a party that right now is in trouble. we have for gotten how to win presidential elections. we have won the house of representatives and because of the 2010 redistricting we will probably keep the house for some time but we are losing senate races we should win. we are missing the easy layups. whether you are talking about todd akin in missouri, whether you are talking about kristine o'donnell in delaware. >> rose: by choosing the wrong candidate. >> by choosing the wrong candidate time and time again and again, instead of being in the business of winning, we have been in the business of having ideological witch hunts, and it seeps that if everybody is pointing fingers at everybody else inside the party and what we have to realize is that we have to get people like colin powell and ted cruz voting for the same candidate for president and when that happens, we will start winning elections again. >> rose: what there the steeds of this because the republican

party always had a variety of factions, bob taft. >> right. >> rose: who was sort of mainstream republican from the midwest. there was ike eisenhower who comes in, sort of the eastern command hing commanding figure at rockefeller was as well and you had barry goldwater to be followed by ronald reagan. there have always been divisions in the party. >> and now we can see more clearly that there are two approaches. there is a barry goldwater approach, very conservative, purist approach, which actually is very good in congressional races and you may win some seats in very red states using that approach, and you have got the ronald reagan approach, goldwater, mean 64, absolutely slaughtered, one of the worst land slides in u.s. history, two years later, ronald reagan ran on the same platform, but with a smile on his face, and unlike goldwater in 64, who seemed to

go out of his way to agitate and irritate a lot of the party establishment, ronald reagan brought everybody into the room, and by bringing everybody into the room, he again in mean 66 witwon in california and beat pt brown who was one of the most popular governors, certainly one of the most transform if the governors in the history of california, and they were off not races with a conservative revolution, reagan once said i remember reading this in david stockman's book, the triumph of politics when talking about his problems inside the white house that reagan told his advisors at one point, hey, guys, i don't wear the black hat. we -- i am the white hat guy. his box office never went below 50 percent. we have people again who were so obsessed with being ideologically pure and calling out anybody else that they don't think is ideologically pure that

we have forgotten how to win races. it is about winning at the end of the day. if you want to make the country more conservative, if you want to shape the world more in your image, you have got to win elections. >> rose: the republican party is a conservative party. >> uh-huh. >> rose: is it a moderate party? >> not right now. >> rose: well i mean can you name me five moderates who have elected office in the republican party? >> well,. >> rose: at the state or fall level? >> and here is part of the problem there are a lot of people out there who think chris christie is a moderate. >> rose: but that's now how in defines himself. >> se not a moderate historically those people who have come into the party and redefined who everybody was and think they can rearrange the deck chairs on the party that right now in real estate chul races is the "titanic", they don't understand the history of the republican party or else they wouldn't be calling chris christie a moderate. a lot of this also is a

reaction, it is a reaction to eight years of george w. bush, where i have got to say, a lot of the people today who are kicking and screaming and conducting these ideological witch trials, they kept their mouths shut for eight years when george w. bush was president, and he was engaging in reckless spending spree. >> rose: right that is your indictment of george bush, it is not the wars he fought, it is, in fact -- >> actually,. >> it is the spending. >> i am with peggy noon nab by by the time of the second inaugural address came around and george bush was talking about promoting freedom and wiping out tyranny on all four corners of the globe people like peggy noonan and myself started going uh-oh this is sounding very, very utopian, it is sounding very, very ideological, and. >> rose: but by that time in the second administration dick cheney had less power and connollcondoleezza rice had mor.

>> it took the republicans being beaten and nancy pelosi being the speaker of the house to take the power out of donald rumsfeld's hands but again, it is aggravating to me as a guy who started complaining about big spending republicanism in 2003, 2004, writing a book in 20043 months before george w. bush's reelection saying this party has become the party of big spenders, where reckless, there is not a difference between republicans and democrats, and if we keep this up we are going to wreck the economy and lose the white house. and i was attacked by some of these people of being a rhino, why aren't you standing behind george w. bush and suddenly they act like they are the first people who have found like found jesus. >> my mother told me that once. >> rose: what did she say? >> i grew up in a southern baptist family. >> rose: so did i. >> i went on a trip and these people, you know, like 17 years

old, and my friends were part of this revival movement and i came home and, you know, it was, i was going to sell all of my beetle albums and do all of this stuff and my mom called me and you know, joey, you are not the first person that found jesus. you need to just calm down. so all of these people that are riding an, i am a conservative, no, you know what? go back and hear what people like tomko burn, charles krauthammer and i have been saying since 2003, 2004 before you start lecturing us. >> rose: there are some people that say ronald reagan couldn't get the nomination of the republican party today. >> that's not true. we have two different parties right now we have a congressional party, by the way, that is who i was. i ran in 1994 as a barry goldwater conservative. >> rose: you were part of the new gingrich -- >> yes. i don't know that i would say i was part of the mute gingrich, but. >> it is true. >> let's just say when i came in newt was speaker, how about that? >> rose: let's say when you came in you help make it --

>> listen, there is no doubt about it, i was not one of newt's loyal minions but there is no doubt that newt gingrich had the vision that got us into congress taking control for the first time in a generation, but you have got -- what works at that level, what gets you elected in northwest florida doesn't get you elected president of the united states, and you have to have a bigger vision, again, goldwater, 64, got absolutely trounced, reagan, same exact platform two years later, he was -- he wasn't a moderate, but he was pragmatic, like ike, i talk a lot about ike, i talk a lot about reagan, i talk a lot about richard nixon, richard nixon, you know we went from being a party that won 49 states in elections and a party that from 1968 to 1988 just absolutely bedeviled democrats, drove them crazy

every four years, we were the ones to beat and we are not that anymore. >> rose: let's talk about how the does, what does the republican party have to do. >> rose:. >> you look at the democratic party and they have a different theory of the electorate than the republican party did, the people who advised to the electorate and realized it was changing and not simply middle-aged white men. >> right. >> rose: that were voting and electing presidents it had to do with hispanics and african americans and had to do with the young and had to do with the majority of women, all of that, that became the winning constituency. >> right. >> rose: does the republican party have to figure out a way it can speak to those constituencies in order to win. >> there is no doubt that we do, but unfortunately, we have made the job more difficult over the past several years, not only by seeming to be far more ideologically driven than we need to be, but also by nominating guys who weren't right wing nuts, john mccain in 2008 and mitt romney in 2012, they were just bad presidential

candidates, i liked both of them, i have got respect for both of them, they ran horrible campaigns.> 2008 was a tough erode for mccain -- >> oh it was. >> rose: it was than it was for mitt romney. >> john mccain unfortunately was having to deal with excesses of the bush administration, he was having -- >> rose: and an economy that -- >> yes, exactly. >> rose: and very attractive candidate who did not have a record, in fact. >> no, of course. >> rose: running with a clean slate. >> of course, he didn't help himself with some of the things he said while lehman brothers is melting down on september 15th, mccain did not help himself with that and didn't help with how he responded to it, but, you know, i am not here to criticize john mccain. i am just here to say for all of those people that say you know what? we nominated moderates in 2 thou eight and 2012 and it didn't work. >> rose: so let's have a conservative and test our thesis, america is waiting for a real conservative. >> and that's why people need to rearead this book you don't havo test that thesis. we tried that in 1964.

>> rose: so you are saying they chose the wrong moderates? >> well, it is not that they chose the wrong moderates. the fact of the matter is unfortunately our primary system has been rewarding the establishment candidate, no matter who it is. there has been a line of procession, and if you look at the people that have won the race, you have mitt romney, whose dad ran in detroit, you know, he ran the state of michigan, governor of michigan, also ran -- amc motors. >> rose: after bush power one, bob dole was next in line. >> right. >> rose: so bob dole got the nomination. >> they always go next in line and i have been criticized by some people on the floor saying that i am the establishment wing of the republican party. i am not. i never -- i never have been. the fact is, though, that we have got to start finding candidates who know how to which elections. >> rose: okay. but i mean you keep saying that, we have got to find candidates who with know how to win elections, how d do they win

elections, what ought it to be the kind of profile that you believe will win and election in 2,000 -- >> they need to be a strong leader and i will tell you first of all, chris christie, obviously, when we have got the time magazine article, you are looking at. >> rose: what the party needs and the cover -- >> of chris christie, and that is strong leadership, jeb bush, a really strong leader. you look throughout history, ronald reagan, a strong leader, ike a strong leader, pdr a strong leader, so often we have had republican candidate who have been afraid of the most extreme elements of the base. they have been listening to the conservative entertainment complex, they don't want somebody on talk radio to say nasty,. >> rose: has rush limbaugh been a huge factor in the fact that the republican party is where it is today and in your judgment does not have and doesn't -- it needs to dramatically change in order to win elections. i think rush

limbaugh is responsible for guys like me getting elected in 1994 i think a series of clones, rush clones, sort of like a xerox machine you do the first -- you do the first topping, copy and a copy of a copy of a copy, and then you have a lot of people out there who are screaming that don't actually, that aren't actually talented and don't entertain as much as rush limbaugh does, and it has created this sclerosis in the party where we talked about it, we went to "national review" symposium right after the election and bill crystal, john competent door ritz, richard lowry a lot of us were talking one of the biggest problems is the fact we don't have open debates about where we move forward, about -- >> rose:. >> about reform. you have got to toto a straight, tow or you are a rhinoand you have that happen long enough and all of a sudden the party ends up where we are instead of where

the party was in the 1980s you have people like bill bennett talking about education reform, jack kemp talking about tax reform, you know, a lot of great thinkers, a lot of reformers, same thing in 1994, we got elected, we were put in charge of congress again in 1994, not because of what i was saying on the campaign trail, or these other -- >> rose: campaign with, contract with america. >> not even because of the contract with america, because governor i think her in michigan ingler had great ideas for recorporal, john cass sick had an alternate budget. >> rose: what you are saying today you know what he is saying in ohio he is speaking about we have to have a safety net. >> right. >> rose: i mean he is speaking to issues of compassion. >> right. >> rose: and tolerance. >> right. >> as a republican governor, a conservative economic, most economic issues are conservative, but he is speaking to not only a conservativism and economics but also a sense of tolerance and respect for --

>> rose: well there is no doubt about it. we need a safety -- i'm sorry. >> rose: go ahead. we need a safety net with, we have to have tolerance, we need to have respect for the most disadvantaged, and unfortunately, our focus in congress has been on/ing the 12 percent of the budget, the 13 percent of the budget that disproportion fatly impacts the poor. >> rose: right. >> instead of looking at i am sorry the middle class entitlements, pentagon spending, tax policy, and trying to work with, to get tax reform and also try to get entitlement reform so as we move forward we will actually be able to have that safety net, to invest in education, to invest in transportation, to be like ike, who was not afraid to invest in science and when he invested in science after sput thick went up

in 1957, you know, it was three, four years later kennedy could say we will send a man to the moon and we did, and kennedy did it because not only because we wanted to beat the soviets to the moon because he knew it would create a new generation of engineers and scientists and mathematicians who would transform our economy and they did. >> rose: most people who understand that america has to be competitive in the world understand that. a commitment to science and research and a mitt romney to education they are also those in your party who say, it costs money and the debt is overwhelming issue and we can't do those things until we do something about the deficit and the debt. >> well, and i was on this show. >> yes, you yes you you were. >> you will remember remember with a know bell prize winning economist about debt, the reason i got involved in politics, the reason i went to congress was because i thought that washington was spending too much money and we were driving up reckless deficits and we are, but the biggest rob right now is

run away entitlement spending, medicare and medicaid are going to bankrupt us in the next 20 years, next 25 years and that is coming from joe scarborough, that is coming from jeffrey sacks. >> rose: well, everybody believes unless we have entitlement reform we can't deal with the debt over the long run. >> over the long run so if republicans believe like me we need smaller government and more responsive government we need to take care of long-term debt then we need to take care of sgiems first and then, entitles first and then we have to cut government waste but we have to invest like ike invested because the chinese are doubling down on transportation. >> rose:. >> >> rose:. >> but nothing on education -- >> rose: there is nothing radical or conservative about that, a lot of people in the mainstream of economic understanding argue exactly that. >> well, and by the way, you will have bloggers who will hear me talk about this, that joe scarborough we knew he was a rhino because he is talking about investing in pork barrel projects and transportation.

no. i talk to republicans outside of washington, i talk to republicans all across the country, i have, you know, have given 300, 40 400 speeches overe past three, four years and i say the same exact thing whether talking to a democratic crowd or a republican crowd, and republicans believe like me. if the chinese are doubling down on education, we need to double down on education. if the chinese are doubling down on r&d we need to double down on r&d. >> rose: alternative energy sources? >> right, exactly we have to do the same thing. fortunately, we are blessed because, you know, business mark stayed there, bismarck, that protects drunk cards and the united states of america we have been protected by god because we have an energy revolution coming over the next five to ten years, wall street journal says by 20-20 we are the number one exporter of oil in the world. >> rose: absolutely. natural gas revolution. >> rose: no longer dependent on middle east oil. >> no longer dependent on middle

east oil and no longer have to worry about whether we are going to send our sons and daughters to the war in the middle east to protect our economic interests over there we have a lot of built in opportunities over here but we are going to have to invest. >> is it true from your experience this politics always the more optimistic candidate wins? >> yes. and that is the truth and i will tell you something else i have always said. sips 1994, when i was, you know, 30 years old and in the middle of my campaign, and chris christie proved it again this week, nobody ever stopped you when you are going 90 miles per hour. nobody ever stops you when you know what you want and you are going to do whatever you can get to get that, and you are not sitting there worrying about what they are saying in the peanut gallery, you are not tuned in to talk radio saying oh, my god are they going to say something terrible at me? you are not looking at your twitter feed oh, no they are really coming after me today maybe i need to call back. no the fact of the matter is if you have a vision and you know

where you want to go and you know where you want to take your party and you know where you want to take your country, like ronald reagan, you can also says like chris christie, i am not saying chris christie is ronald reagan but if you have that vision and you are not scared to say exactly what you mean, and you go about it in a smart, tough pragmatic way, you will win. >> rose: who do you think the race for the republican nomination will include in 2016? >> marco rubio? >> no. >> rose: george bush i mean jeb -- >> jeb? you probably heard the same things i have heard. i would love jeb to run. jeb was a tough strong pragmatic leader in florida, i don't know that he is going to do it. >> rose: he did it in 2012. would he have gotten the nomination? >> yes here is the ironic thing. we were all saying in 1994 when jeb first ran, if he last name wasn't bush he would never be there. >> rose: right. >> we were saying in 2012, if

his last name wasn't bush, he would be president of the united states right now. >> rose: that's true. >> i mean, history, you talk about, you talk about a cruel fate, je jeb bush if the last wk of his campaign against walk childs in 1994 had gone differently, and pummelled jeb the last week, just really tough and quite frankly really demagogue academic campaign ads saying he was going to gut social security as governor of the state of florida if jeb responded differently and won that week, jeb would have been president in 2,000 instead of his brother. >> rose: what is the right path on foreign policy for the republican party? a. this is the right path and i, colin powell is more moderate than i am in a lot of areas but when it comes to foreign policy, colin powell's approach is the approach ronald reagan took, it is where george h.w. bush too many and we need to take in the

future. we engage. >> 41 not 43. >> bush 41 we engage military adventurism and we tried to be, you know, the 911 to the world, colin powell believed and the powell doctrine was, you know, a great whether it is a weinberger doctrine or the powell doctrine. >> rose: he built on the weinberger doctrine. >> he built on the weinberger doctrine an he had the idea of overwhelming force, ever we have to fight a war, if we fight a war, it is the last possible option and then when we go in, i love the way you say that we don't want a fair fight, we will show everything at them. >> rose: and with the popular support of the people at home you go in to win and you put everything in and you win it as quickly as you can. >> quickly as you can. >> rose: the support was a central part of it and knowing what your objective was was a central a part and not an endless war. >> the objective was the most important thing there is a trigger point, and when you -- you had a specific goal, you didn't have mission -- colin powell always said when you hit

that goal, that triggering event, all the troops come home, i can't believe looking back in retrospect the extraordinary discipline that george h.w. bush and the buyer white house showed back in 1991 when we did what we said we were going to do and get the iraqis out of kuwait and instead of driving all the way to baghdad they stopped a couple of generals that wanted to go all the way to baghdad, stopped them and brought them home and that is the foreign policy, a restrained, focused realistic foreign policy, that is what we needed to do moving forward. >> rose: when you look at the foreign policy of niko's father, brzezinski, and he has written a series of books about america's role in the world today, how far from that are you? >> we have had some let's just sadie conversations on air about middle east policy. >> rose: so where is the

difference? >> i think middle east probably. >> rose: he thinks we can contain iran. >> he does. >> rose: you don't believe -- >> no, i don't think we can contain iran, i have to say and i talk about middle east policy because that is the one area i disagree with him on. and i am in great agreement with him. i mean he is a tough realist, he was a cold war hawk, i got extraordinary admiration for the man. >> rose: against communism. >> oh, yes, he was -- he was a real fighter, he also showed, i thought, great character in 1979 when the iranians were pushing him hard to bring the is that back, the shah back and he said quite frankly what barack obama did not say at a critical time, during the egypt uprising, he said we don't do that to our friends. he has been our friend, he has been our ally with all of his flaws and he showed great character there. >> rose: the problems with the saudis -- >> right. exactly. >> rose: what obama did.

but. >> but to be really specific we had a couple of debates about middle east policy and called me stungly superficial, and horrified when i suggested the 2,000 -- fell apart because yasser arafat couldn't take yes as an answer and also iran is another a. >> oslo that is what they believe about the negotiations between bill clinton and i can't sar arafat. >> they could not take -- >> right in 2,000 especially that's when he called me stungly super filibuster, stunningly superficial .. i think we have a pretty big difference of opinion on iran and also the israel israeli-palestinian. >> and how about china? >> no. i think his last book especially, i think is extraordinarily important because he looks at a lot of the countries, turkey, who can make a huge difference, india that can make a huge difference, china that can make a huge difference. >> rose: dorchester -- doris kearns goodwin was talking about

wrote a wonderful book you should read and i know you will about teddy roosevelt and william howard taft and their relationship and what happened because they split the republican party and woodrow wilson became president as you may know. >> right. doris is such an extraordinary writer and historian, it remind you of obviously of jefferson and adams. >> rose: yes. >> and that extraordinary story too. >> rose: on, died on the same day. >> and became great friend. >> rose: you hope this book from a from ike to reagan, how republicans once mastered politics and can again, you hope this book served as the right path for a republican nominee to be elected president. >> my focus is on the white house. and that book, i am talking about what we need to do. because, again, i think we are going to have representatives over the next four, six years just 'cos in 2010, the districts are draw drawn i really think we will have a good year next year despite the fact. >> rose: because of healthcare. >> because of healthcare also

because you get a lot of red state democrats that are running for reelection there. so i think we have a good shot. the president's approval ratings are at record lows when it comes to the economy, people, by a two-to-one margin disagree with the way he is running the economy, you have larry summers coming out asking questions whether their policies in 2009 and 2010 actually helped the economy at the end of the day. so i think republicans have a great opportunity to pick up seats. but i am focused on 2016. what do we have to do to bring together a national coalition that could again start winning elections like ike won elections, and like reagan won elections and that's what i talk about, this is a book about the history of the republican party, and it starts with ike in 19 -- >> rose: winning -- >> you elect conservatives who are not only politically conservative but conservative with a small -- people like ike

who weren't afraid to stand down against the most extreme elements of their own party. people like ronald reagan, who would actually, if you held as a conservative champ but he took, pat buchanan always said it drove reagan crazy when he would read human events and trashing him because he was never sufficiently conservative enough. a lot of the neocons were trashing ronald reagan in the early 1980s because here is a great example, reagan was pragmatic, the neocons didn't want reagan to sell grain to the soviets. >> reagan was more interested in how farmers were doing in the midwest than he was on trying to extend a message, a geopolitical message to the soviet union. he was a tough pragmatist, he did deals with tip o'neill when he had to do deals with tip zero meal to save social security he and o'neill were actually, as you know, o'neill and he had a rule at 6:00 o'clock, they

became fast friends, and that, by the way, that is not hollywood glamor more, you know matthews for writing this bookw claiming that they were overly chummy, in fact, richard reeves wrote a great biography where reagan and o'neill always said 6:00 o'clock we become friends. and they did. and a lot of great things happened because of that. >> rose: chris christie. when you talk about him and when you go look at him, what is it that he has that you think makes him, in part, a model for a republican presidential candidate? >> just what i said earlier. like reagan, like ike, he wasn't distracted by the sound from the cheap seats. i loved edwin morris had one of my famous reagan stories going up and interviewing him on the day the la times just completely eviscerated reagan, and iran-contra story on the cover and also had a story about the deficit, they blamed it on reagan, he was one year into

retirement he goes up to the ranch, and nancy meets him at the door and she is grim faced and good morning, he is thinking i am wasted my time i will get nothing from this mess so reagan is looking at the la times as edwin morris walks back and he says good morning, mr. president and reagan said, have you seen the times? and ed morris said yes mr. president, and he points to an article at the bottom, he goes, i can't believe the dodgers would even dream of being bought by murdoch! and reagan was enraged that, you know, the team might -- that murdoch might be able to buy the team. >> it wasn't what they said about him but what is happening to the dodgers. >> he just didn't care what people said. he knew what he believed and he was willing to fight for it. chris christie is the same way, christi city came on our show, 32, 33 percent approval rating and i said, because we had a good relationship immediately, i

said, chris, i am a conservative, i am a tough guy but you keep doing this stuff. you are not going to get reelected, you are at 32, 33 percent you may not -- he said, i don't care because i really don't care, joe, i am going to do this for four years if they want to reelect me, they don't reelect me, and if, if they don't, i don't care. we can read politicians and read people and i thought oh, my god, he really believes it. this man is going to be a force in politics. and sure enough, he was. he kept his head down and -- >> rose: four years ago, you know, when he clearly did not believe it was the right time for him to run. >> right. >> rose: and he showed none of these kind of things. i mean he toyed with the idea because he had a lot of financial people who wanted him to run but you could tell he knew it wasn't the right time to run for him. >> right. and you can tell. >> rose: now is the right time. >> he is thinking this is the right time. >> could not be more perfect. >> exactly. >> rose: do you believe in an

america you can fashion a president to run without coming from government, per se, without being, you know, either of the senate or recently from the senate, of the governorship or recently from the governorship? or vice president? >> oh, sure. >> rose: can you see it happening in other country where celebrity and seriousness of purpose. >> right. >> rose: -- allows one to fashion a political career without having come from a governing class. >> you know the greatest example of that was ike. he had not been in politics. >> rose: he was a military hero right after world war two and he was president of columbia university as well. >> but, you know, macarthur tried his hand in politic, that didn't work out very well. but ike with no political background, came into office in 1953, january of 1953, programs the most prepared man ever to be president of the united states. certainly in the 20th century. and he did a remarkable job.

and now i really think that barack obama model from 2008 has probably disqualified for a lot of people, a lot of these younger republican senators who think all you have to do is get elected to the u.s. senate, serve a year or two and then suddenly you are on the fast-track to winning the nomination. and i will just say it, i am talking about -- >> rose: ted cruz. >> well, about ted cruz, about rand paul, about marco rubio. >> rose: you mean they cannot, should not run now because they do not have enough experience. >> they are just not ready, barack obama was not ready to be president of the united states, i said it nonstop for a year and a half, i said this is a guy -- you have to understand how washington works. you have to -- at least run a large state or been a businessperson and understood some of the challenges and the complexities and what it required to make deals and do the sort of things that, you know, reagan was actually able

to do because he ran the state of california. but i really think that we need to lack for somebody that is not a narcotic, that is, you know, been around for two or three years, and that actually is going to be able to get into office and hit the ground running from the first day. >> rose: the ball is called the right path, the author is joe scarborough. >> appreciate it carlie. >> rose: back in a moment. stay with us. >> > the film blue is the warmest colour was this year's sensation at the cans film festival the

cannes film festival a sexual coming of age story that depicts a relationship between two young woman, headed by steven spielberg made an unusual decision, it awarded the main prize, not just to its director but also its leading actresses, they are adele exarchopoulos and i will a fidou the first women to women the golden palm since jane champion in 1993, here is the trailer for the film. >> ♪ >>

>> rose: i am pleased to have adele exarchopoulos at this table for the first time. welcome. >> thank you. >> how old are you. >> 19. >> this is a remarkable performance and i, at 19 i don't

think you would mind me saying, it is a remarkable performance and what it is for me and i agree with what steven spielberg said it is this fence that you show so often in this face, a sense of curiosity. >> yes. >> yes. >> we have lick two cameras, really close to our face all the time, and we have to be used to this, and i like decided because it was also a movie about skin and how much you can, yes, he was always honest. >> rose: but you were called on to act with your face. >> yes. >> even when you were not speaking. >> yes. >> how much experience had you had before this film? >> i don't know. like seven, but not the main. >> rose: not something of this size. >> not the lead role,, no and this was a huge, a unique experience, because of this is one of the best directors in france and he is really famous, even as an amateur, even in the

role. >> rose: yes, yes, yes. >> and we have to make this patient together and create everything and fully of his own -- to work with improvisation, with like surprise, with a lot of takes, so it was like, yeah, yes, unique. >> rose: i want to talk about the controversy and all of that but just about, this is a story of what in your words? >> for me it is a love story. >> it is a love story, first love almost? >> yes -- >> and fundamental education. >> fundamental education. >> yes, how, one person can change your life even if you will forget this experience, even if you wake up and people can like change you. >> rose: and the attraction beyond the physical was this sense that she is so whatever she is, that it is lake nothing ever happened to me and it is changing my life. >> yes. >> i am going places, seeing

things, feeling things, learning things. >> uh-huh. >> rose: never before the character. >> yes. it is like she discovered this girl and she kind of obsessed her. even in our dreams, and she would come and she makes full oral all of her education, all of her -- and yes, it was -- yes. >> rose: and tell me about the director and his style and how he took the two of you and pushed you to great performances. >> leah was already picked and we had a lot of cast. >> >> rose: audition. >> yes audition we had the blue is the warmest colour and after i meet him, and again and again, he really wants to discover you the first thing in silence just watching you, asked you a

question and after there was a kind of spiritual things that would come out from adele, it is weird, i don't know how to explain and you really want to confess to him, and it is like okay are you able to make this love story? i want to treat the love scene like the other one, like a -- i really want to create a patient and, it was like yes, i want to be in, and so he just give me this script and he told me, read it once, and after that forget it, i don't want you to focus on the words in the situation, we will make improvisation, you will, we will get something from you, in the play, we are going to play like a game and so it is true that, yeah, h he he wants you to put things unconsciously lake you will do this or it comes before a scene, gives you hike a sentence or give you an idea and say forget i it, forget it and just wants it to make it work, the kind of -- i don't know, i

don't know how to explain it. >> rose: but let me inject for a second, i assume that he chose you because he thought you could do it, that you could go with that kind of technique. >> yeah. >> rose: yeah. >> i think watching for instinctive. >> rose: instinctive, intuitive, instinctive. >> yes, he doesn't way i don't zero, i don't, you to think about the scene but be in the moment and in your instant. >> rose: and when you got to the sexual scenes which you knew were coming, i assume or not. >> yes, we knew. he told us, i want you to shoot this scene like the other one, i want to -- i want the people to come in the bedroom of these girls and see how much it is organic and visceral. >> rose: in other words i want the audience to watch this movie to feel like they are in the room. >> yeah. >> rose: and there is some controversy about i mean you felt like you were pushed too far or did you thought this was the way it was on this movie? >> i think now we all accept

that it was like this and i think i learned really a lot on this movie, more than everywhere, it is the best school for me because. >> rose: wow. >> i don't know. it just puts you there, you learn new things, it evoke the fate of this teen. i don't know. for example, one day it was like a tuktuk in bangkok and stopped him and said can we try to make something with your camera, and it was like okay but i have to work, and two hours later he told him okay you want to make the movie with us? let's get on the team, and he was on the team and you are making this during, while making the filming with the bike so everything is new, everything is -- he really doesn't like -- we don't have

hair and make-up, or clothes, okay i love your dress, give it to adele or leah, and he a just wants emotion and sometimes it was odd because he made many, many, many takes, and he wants you to be able to be yourself and that was -- that was what was art. >> rose: that was art. >> yes. >> yes. and i hear you saying that it was a remarkable growing experience for you. >> yes. >> as an actress. >> yes. and as a person. >> and as a person. >> yes. >> what did you learn as a person? >> i discovered people, i see myself from like -- you two are great friends now. >> yes. like she is like my sister. the first thing we make together was a 6 scene, to present yourself naked and to be naked in front of the other people, you know, there is no -- no hi or -- you are just naked.

>> rose: you are just naked. >> you are just yourself, you know and we really have to trust each other and i learned, i see myself from people, from life, from experience like this, where everything is intense when you have to learn to share, i love the fact that an artist takes an actress like i do and people from shadow to the light, like me and the other were in the movie and really helped me to regroup and i think that is cool, to let people out there a chance to express -- >> rose: you came out of this as a better actress when you came in. >> yes of course. >> rose: and as a more interesting human being. >> yes. >> the -- no regrets? >> no. >> none? all good? >> not all good because it is a human experience and it is for me the movie, the shooting was like a patient, with like big ups and big downs because of the subject, because of the -- >> rose: what was big up? >> it was the pleasure to play, the pleasure to meet people, the

pleasure to build something, together. >> rose: now why did -- the movie was based, the movie was based on a novel and the character was called clementine. >> yes. >> and they changed it to adele. >> it is because like three weeks after the beginning of the shoot, we were trying a lot of names that we liked, clementine, zoey, josephine, and we couldn't find like -- i don't know, a good name for her, and i will shoot you even in the train for going to the set, you are eating with your friends, like a canteen. >> rose: right, right. >> so everyone sometimes people were calling me with my real name and one day he filmed me like adele, it means justice in arabic language and i learned that fact and does it bother you if we shoot your own name? and i was like no, no, it doesn't bother me. some people have a bad interpretation of my maim in the

movie like a can, like it is my life but for me it was very clear. >> rose: rotate this is a scene between you and emma played by leah, fidou talking about philosophy.

>> rose: some people raise the question well i don't want so and so, i wouldn't want my children seeing this. do you have any thoughts on that? >> like -- >> the sexuality between these two women that we just saw. >> for me, there is age, people like, my own brothers i. >> rose:. >> rose: they have not seen it. >> no, because they are like 12 and ten. >> rose: oh, yes. >> and i am their sister so they are not fully mature to understand that is just cinema. but after some time, it is too bad because people make a big deal about this scene because there are seven minutes and. >> it is a long seven minutes sexual encounter. >> yes. and they are like sexual things,

like one minute and it is finished, but here it is like real sexual life, two people who will love each other and how we can be special with someone. >> i am surprised that the sexual scenes were shot early, because you would have thought that he might have wanted there to be a relationship. >> yeah. >> rose: before it got to that. >> me too. yeah, it was like, what? we are going to make the dream scene after he lets a special relation, evaluated and we go back from other sex scene. but we were all kind of like disturbed, but. >> kind of like disturbed? >> yes, because you are in front of someone, you are naked, but the first sex scene we make together we are, were really, really funny because we love a lot. >> rose: you laughed a lot. >> yeah and you don't know someone and you are two-minute after you are touching her, making. >> rose: in every way, yes. >> but i think this is just about part of the game for me, you know. >> it is acting. >> yeah.

>> >> yeah. it is a part of the game. that's all, and we were taking pleasure to make this scene, it is more easy to make this scene make this scene than cold scene where you have to be really natural or a breakup scene where you have to be devastating, for me this is more simple and i think that is also the body language, so you have just to let, to abandon yourself, to be conscious there are six people on the stage that everyone is watching you, that you are -- you just have to say, okay -- >> rose: in the moment? >> yes. >> rose: you were totally in the moment? >> like all the -- i am in the moment, in the instant, i love this girl. >> rose: and if in the moment you respond to what she does and she responds to what you do. >> and for me it was more easy because i am not supposed to -- it is my first time with a woman, so she has to drive me in the sex. >> yes. >> and i am supposed to like discover if i like it and it is more easy and she has to dominate the situation and after

all all sexuality is -- >> what has this done for you, this -- what steven spielberg described as a remarkable performance? >> it is so cool for an actress to have to play a young girl who became a woman into all of these experiences and it is true that for me it was really a special year. i never dare to ask such a price, like for me, never in my life, i was hoping for like one day -- but never like a golden -- it was like a dream. i have the chance to travel, to meeting people, to b tobacco th, to discover everything, to be in public, and to see this reaction, to be like at the cannes festival, you are the sensation that you are born in the -- like an actress you see people that you love, like steven spielberg, and my coal kidman, nick nicole kidman you

grew up with their cinema and they tell you how much they like the movie, so it is bringing you directly, direct recognizance and that is special. >> rose: recognition. >> yes. and just to be there and it is like you are this kind of -- there is no job where when you finish, people say like, yeah, good job, that is cool. and i think everyone will be happy to have this. >> rose: yes. >> so i am lucky and it was my lucky year. >> rose: he said, the director said i would say i pushed the actresses toward what i imagined sometimes when encountered resistance you have to figure out a way to break down the barriers to get the result i am looking for and sometimes when you can't get there, you discover something else. >> yes. >> rose: so he is pushing you to go one place he may have discovered something else. >> yes. >> rose: that he did not imagine going in. yes. well, we are working in like the three of us, it is a big

experience, she, she is special in all of her movements, acting, so she would feed me a lot, she would feed the scene a lot. >> rose: how did she do that, feed the scene? >> naturally, naturally. she would come, she had a special face, you know, you can project everything you want to, she was like a phantasm for me, i think. she can be a new lesbian experience girl, she can be a queen in like another world, she can be in the future, in the past, in the present for me. >> rose: she can be good, bad, she can be happy, sad, she was can be inspiring? a. yes.>> depressing all of thoe things. >> so for me, she was a rich girl, i mean, entirely. >> rose: i mean, it is just amazing to me, have you thought about this, all of this is happening when you are 19. >> yes. in five years i am going to be for getting -- >> rose: i don't think so. i don't think so. because people put pressure that you

are, you come are the shadow to the light and it is like, wow, and you say in my next movie if people don't like it may be they put me, there will be more tricks that if i haven't had all of this. >> rose: you will be judged by a high standard. >> thank you. >> rose: i mean they will expect things of you next time. >> wa-la. >> rose: thank you. pleasure to have you here. >> me too. >> rose: thank you. thank you for joining us. see you next time. >> captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org