what's happening on the campus at columbia university. they had a 2:00 p.m. deadline to disburse. that has not happened. they're almost an hour past that. she has it all. "katy tur reports" starts now. we do indeed have it all. good to be with you. i'm katy tur. could this be 1968 all over again. protests on college campuses against the war in vietnam spread to the democratic convention in chicago. and arguably led to the election of richard nixon. it is 2024, and the war is in gaza, and with threats to shut down this year's democratic convention, which believe it or not, is also in chicago this year, will the outcome in november be the same? >> donald trump like nixon is trying to use the protests to paint democrats as lawless and chaotic, we'll get into the politics in a moment. speaker nancy pelosi is with us,

and the debate over campus debates in a moment. but first, here's what's happening right now. columbia university is trying to clear the encampment on its main lawn to prepare for graduation ceremonies. it gave students a 2:00 p.m. deadline to leave or risk suspension. so far they have not left. with columbia's president saying in a statement, one group's rights to express their views cannot come at the expense of another group's right to speak, teach and learn. let us get right to the campus. joining us now is nbc news correspondent guad venegas. no, it's antonia hylton, i'm sorry about that. also nbc news digital senior white house reporter, peter nicholas. sorry. antonia, talk to me about what you have seen. so far it doesn't look like anybody has left? >> reporter: they have not left, and if anything, they're emboldened at this point. as you can see behind me here, the encampment is still very much in tact. i have not seen a single tent

come down. and actually, there aren't that many students in the encampment. there are a couple hanging out in there. there are hundreds marching all around campus right now. this area in front of columbia's butler library has become the central focal point, but they are walking, marching and chanting in every corner o. -- of the campus. what we haven't seen is an administrative response. they sent deputies for minouche shafik. they said the students had to sign certain forms or risk disciplinary action. students thought at 2:00 p.m., we will be here, maybe there will be the nypd or private police officers or maybe administrators will themselves come down and visit the encampment. they haven't said anything yet, and the students are feeling emboldened by it. they feel like the protest is working and sending a message to the administration and the country. every one of the protesters i talked to said they have been heartened and inspired by seeing encampments spread from, you know, here in new york,

massachusetts, tennessee, indiana, california, and so they feel like their voices are now being heard at a national, if not maybe international level at this point, katy, and they are showing no sign of being interested in stopping, katy. >> what is the word from the school? because they're saying if you don't get off the lawn, they're going to start suspending people. does it look like now eventually these protesters are going to get suspended? >> reporter: well, if the school chooses to suspend everyone engaged in the protest right now, they are going to be suspending hundreds, if not maybe a thousand students at columbia because, in order to get into these gates at this point, if you're the no media, you have to be a columbia student, in the undergraduate program or a graduate student or a faculty member, they are identified by bright yellow badges. i don't know if you can see any of them behind me here. there's a couple sprinkled in. the majority are students. that's probably the major question administrators are

asking themselves. what do you do about this because of the numbers, the strength, frankly that the students have behind them here. you could send people into the encampment. there's only maybe 10, 20 kids at the moment, all circling around. the plan i have heard from students, they split themselves into two groups. the students that will stand firm in the encampment, risk arrest, suspension, and expulsion, and the students who are going to stand nearby and observe, take videos, try to protect or at least be able to spread the word of what they see happen to their classmates, and even that hasn't come to that point yet, katy, until the administration takes action and gives an update from what they said early this morning, the students appear to be in control of what's happening on the law. >> i asked you earlier, how many people were protesting and you said about a thousand. there are 36,000 students enrolled at columbia between the graduate programs and under

graduate programs. when you go outside of the encampment, what do you hear from students about how they view this, and whether they feel like they canget on with their lives, study, work on campus, study on campus, and how they were -- how they feel about the upcoming commencement. >> those who aren't involved in the encampment, they say it hasn't gotten in the way, i walk by, go to my classes, there's a virtual option, and they're not bothered by it. then, of course, when you talk to some students, especially jewish students who are involved in jewish organizations, who say that they are visibly jewish here, they say that they have felt very isolated at times by the protests here, and some of them are taking the virtual option and not coming to campus anymore. you have faculty who have been in the thick of it, putting on the vests, getting in the mix with students, trying to offer solutions and support as they engage in protests, and many were on the committee that was actively negotiating with

minouche shafik, the president. there's a mix here. some of the faculty agreeing with the right to protest, what they don't want is a police presence here, and they don't necessarily, in all cases want the encampment to come down. there are a whole number of views. i heard one person say have the commencement and leave the encampment here. they should see the encampment is active and students are having their voices heard. others want a different location to be organized. move the encampment so we can have the classic feel, so people who missed out on their high school graduations can have that feeling, family members coming from all over the world to celebrate. they are trying to protect that. all of that remains to be sorted out. the administration was hoping this would be figured out by 2:00 p.m. today, and kids would voluntarily leave. the evidence is behind me.

that is not how that's going to go down. >> let's talk about the politics of this. we're going to get into it more with speaker emerita nancy pelosi, but let me ask you about president biden, the reaction from the white house because there's got to be memories of 1968 and what happened at the convention in chicago and the election of richard nixon. that's got to be weighing heavily on some people within the white house and the campaign. >> i think the white house is torn. on the one hand, president biden sympathizes with the argument that the israeli military has been too tough in gaza and has exposed civilians to too much dislocation, hardship, suffering and death. there's that. president biden is pro-israel through and through. he's a zionist, and supports the rights of jewish students particularly those on campus who have felt harassed and marginalized. i spoke to some on campus last week, and i saw some flyers with

anti-semitic flyers that have been circulating, students who feel really cheated in the sense that they lost their first semester as freshman to covid, they had to do virtual learning, and now they're doing a hybrid model. they're afraid to come on campus. they're being told they have to take their classes virtually online. it's a difficult dilemma for biden, who of course is in a tough reelection campaign, and can't afford to alienate anybody. the situation is so tense, so volatile, no matter what he does, it's to imagine he's not going to orchd somebody. >> peter nicholas, antonia hylton, i appreciate both of you. last month, a group of pro palestinian protesters interrupted a dinner of the dean of berkeley law school, demanding the university divest from israel. the dinner was one of four for the graduating law class and the

interruption was not welcome. >> millions of muslims around the world fast not only -- >> it's not your house. >> it is my house. >> we have attorneys. we have attorneys. >> you don't have to get aggressive. >> this is our first amendment right. >> national lawyers guild has informed us this is our first amendment rights and they are aware of this. they are not wrong. >> this is my house. >> this is my house and you're no longer welcome here. >> i'll call the police, you are not welcome. >> you can call the police. >> i don't prefer to. >> please stop touching her. >> please leave. if you don't want to be here, leave my house. >> that video of the dean and his wife, uc berkeley law professor katherine fisk went viral, and now writing about the experience for the atlantic, no one has a right to protest in my home. he describes the posters he saw

on campus and online telling law students not to dine with, quote, zionist, will gaza starves. those protesters including a quote, a caricature of him holding a bloody knife and fork with what appeared to be blood around his lips and the poster attacks him for no apparent reason other than he's jewish. dean erwin chemrinski, thank you for being here. i'm sorry you had to go through seeing the protesters and the feeling of anti-semitism. can you explain why specifically that image of you, the caricature of blood around your lips, holding a knife and fork, why that is particularly -- here it is, why that is particularly offensive. >> and the one that you have, i think, is a sanitized version that doesn't still have the blood on the knife and fork. there's a terrible anti-semitic trope of blood libel that jews

killed gentiles to use their blood. it's false and it's awful. to see on all the bulletin boards in the law school the poster that you just put up was deeply offensive, and blatantly anti-semitic. yet i felt as dean they had the right to put the posters on the bulletin board, and in response to requests, i said i could not take them down without violating the first amendment. >> tell me about the tension between the first amendment here, and what you believe. you have argued for the first amendment, you know, in your entire law career. tell me about the tension between the first amendment and the protesters. >> the first amendment protects right to put anti-semitic posters online. to come on the public streets and the sidewalks by my house to bang drums. but when it comes into my backyard, when it's disrupting an event in my home, there is no first amendment right. i think the core of the first

amendment is that all ideas and views can be expressed, even very offensive ones, but under the first amendment, there can always be time, place and manner restrictions with regard to speech. >> we just showed a lot of protests in columbia. one of the questions i have had is do all of the protesters, are they all protesting the same thing. do they all know what they're protesting for or against. what is your sense of where the protests on uc berkeley stand. are they protesting against the war or are they protesting against zionism and the state of israel. do you believe there is -- is it rampant anti-semitism or are there small strains of anti-semitism? what has your experience been? >> i think the protests you described, protesting what israel did in gaza. for some, it's protesting the existence of israel in the jewish state.

many are calling for the end of israel, the end of what they call zionism. i do not think that criticizing israel is anti-semitic. i'm very critical of many of israel's policies. but i do think that it times the rhetoric of being antizionist becomes blatantly anti-semitic and was said by one of your reporters. there were anti-semitic flyers on the columbia campus. there are anti-semitic things said on the berkeley campus, and the flyers put on the bulletin board can't be seen as anything else than anti-semitic. >> was anyone else protested in the same way you were? >> i know of no other instance of any dean on the berkeley campus being protested. of course, part of what felt anti-semitic is the only reason i think they were protesting me is because i was jewish. they weren't protesting anything that i had said or done. their only request was that the university of california, which

isn't in control of the law school or the campus, that's to the regions, that really heightened the sense that was a protest against me because i was jewish. >> george packer also writing for "the atlantic" today and he was on "morning joe" argues there's only one correct school of thought. students are taught there's a clear right, clear wrong, and in this instance, oppressors and oppressed. critical debate is no longer seen as acceptable on college campuses across the country. has that been your experience? >> not at all. i strongly disagree. critical debate goes on on so many issues in my law school and campus, but all the schools that i have been part of. i think what makes this issue different from what i have seen is how deeply divided the students are. i was in college during the vietnam war and the students were largely unified against the war. now there's a deep division

among the students, unlike anything i have seen before. >> uc berkeley, thank you very much for joining us, and again, i am sorry you had to experience those protesters. i think they were awful to have to see. thank you for your time. >> thank you so much. and still ahead, secretary of state, antony blinken is back in the middle east. what he's urging of hamas in a bid to end the conflict. and speaker emerita nancy pelosi is here. congress sup for grabs, and polls are showing a tight race. what she thinks is most at stake with the elections months away. and what's happening in court with donald trump's criminal hush money trial. we're back in 90 seconds. l. we're back in 90 seconds now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up, i've got symptom relief. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief

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secretary blinken is in saudi arabia today reviving talks for a cease fire deal between israel and hamas. he said the current proposal given to hamas is quote, extraordinarily generous. a hamas leader tells nbc news it is quote, a positive development but too early to be optimistic. this is secretary blinken's 7th trip to the region since october 7th. u.s. and arab leaders say this could be their last chance to reach an agreement before israel moves on rafah. joining us now, nbc news pentagon correspondent courtney kube. talk to us a little bit more about what secretary blinken is doing and what it could mean. >> it's more shuttle diplomacy,

which we have seen him do a number of times as you mentioned, multiple trips to the region since october 7th and it feels like every time he does one of these trips, we talk about the urgency of the situation, and that's not any different this time. the urgency of the situation is surrounding the fact that there are still dozens of hostages held by hamas in gaza. their condition in many cases is not even known, what kind of condition they are in health wise, but also we are at the point where israel is getting closer and closer to a possible large scale ground invasion of rafah. that's been a large part of the conversation going back and forth between u.s. officials and israeli officials including president biden and bibi netanyahu over the weekend. the potential for a ground incursion in rafah, president biden like many u.s. officials telling the israelis that the u.s. disagrees with the idea of a large scale invasion of rafah. because of the tremendous toll it could take on the more than 1

million civilians who are there right now without any kind of a real concrete plan for israel to get the civilians to safety. now, because of this potential -- the concern here is that if israel goes forward with this invasion of rafah, it could spell disaster for any kind of chance for hamas to agree to a cease fire and agree to release any of those hostages left there. again, katy, the situation is urgent, and there's a lot of concern that there may only be a matter of days before it could get to a place where they can't agree to any kind of a cease fire and hostage deal. >> and blinken calling this proposal, the offer by israel extraordinarily generous, saying it would be a sustained piece, a sustained period of calm while this hostage deal comes through. only 33 hostages that they're asking for, humanitarian hostages freed for that sustained period of calm, along with palestinian prisoners released. courtney kube, thank you very

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starting this wednesday, almost any woman seeking an portion in the state of florida will have to travel as far north as virginia to get one or north carolina if she can afford to miss days of work, nights in a hotel, and accommodate a mandatory waiting period. president biden blamed all of that on donald trump for what he called a women's health care crisis. joining us now, california congresswoman and the 52nd speaker of the house, speaker emerita, nancy pelosi. thank you very much for joining us, madame speaker, it's good to have you. >> my pleasure. thank you. >> i want you to react to that, abortion now basically illegal in florida. it's illegal in a number of states. we can put up a map. we saw what happened in arizona. the travel that women need to endure to get an abortion, even in emergencies, what do you make of that? >> well, people have to view abortion as a democracy issue. this is about freedom to make your own decisions for a woman. it's a personal decision.

it's an economic decision. at the kitchen table of america's families, if and when they could expand their families or even start their families. so this thing in florida, i mean, in six weeks you practically don't know you're pregnant, much less be able to intervene as difficult as it is there. virginia is the only state in the south that does not have a ban on a woman making her own choice about her reproductive health. that's a distance for them -- people to come. so it is -- people said during the last election that i was going to owe an apology to everyone when we lost 30 or 40 seats because i kept advocating for women's freedom and this issue was important in the election. we lost five in new york. not 30 or 40. and people saw the power of women coming forth and their families for their freedom. it's a freedom issue. >> do you think it's going to be

a more powerful issue at the ballot box this time around? >> well, it is because the fact is that no matter what he says, there will be a national abortion ban, and that would be horrible for our country. >> why do you say that, no matter what donald trump says? >> do you believe him? have you ever believed anything he said? >> tell me how it would get enacted. a federal abortion ban would need a majority in the house and senate and the president to sign it. >> that's right. and that's why we have to win it all. we have to win the white house, with our great president of the united states, joe biden, who has a vision for america that is in keeping with the vision of our founders, the sacrifice of our men and women in uniform, the aspirations of our children and their families. a person who because of his experience, his age, he knows the issues so well. and he's strategic and has proven in two years when we had the majority that he can get the job done. he knows how to do it. and in his heart, he cares so

much about the people of america. so we're very proud of him and what he will put forth and the contrast between him and a possible alternative. >> just sticking on the issue of abortion, what can he do with another term if he has a democratic house and maybe a democratic senate. what can he do on the issue of abortion to protect it even perhaps in states that it's not currently protected? >> you have to forgive me. i cannot subscribe to the fact that he would be the president of the united states. but if he were -- >> no, i'm talking about president biden. if president biden gets reelected and there's a democratic house and a democratic senate, what can president biden do to protect abortion nationwide. >> we can enshrine into the law roe v. wade. >> takes 2/3 in the senate. >> 60 votes is the senate now. if we win 50 plus 1 in the

senate, 50 plus the vice president, we can overturn the 60 vote rule. >> the filibuster. >> the filibuster and pass it with a 51-vote margin. that's what we need to do. >> why do you think the democrats have been so hesitant to overturn the filibuster until now? >> you have to ask the senators because i think it's -- first of all, we had a compromise to put our country together, and they gave small states, we're a state of 40 million people in california, tens of millions in new york, and we have two senators, and states that have one member of congress have two senators. so, okay, that's the compromise. we respect that, it's in our constitution. but to put on top of that a 60-vote requirement is to empower 40% of the population. >> you're saying tyranny of the minority. >> i'm not saying tyranny, it's

gun violence protection, women's right to choose, voting rights act. issues that relate to equity, many that relate to the constitution that we can do that we can't do under reconciliation. >> let me ask you about what we're seeing on college campuses across the country. we started the show with what we're seeing on columbia, the university wants the protesters to move. they're not moving. there are plans to disrupt the convention, which happens to be in chicago this year, and people are saying this could feel like 1968. on the back of this idea that the democrats were chaotic and lawless. he used those protests to see his advantages. do you worry about what the protests could do to the democrats' chances for reelection. >> we respect the great tradition in the country of protests, freedom of speech and

advocacy, and on college campuses, this has been a strong force. we also reject anti-semitism, and antiislamophobia. we remember trump's muslim ban of people coming into the country and what that provoked in the country. it's about freedom of expression. it's about order. people have a right to protest, but we have to do it in a way that is safe. and each of these campuses has their own rules. and people should respect the rules as they enjoy the freedom to participate. in terms of the convention in chicago, i was at that convention. in 1968, my brother was the mayor of baltimore at the time, and we all went with him to the convention. he was a big supporter of bobby kennedy, the real bobby kennedy, and he was heartbroken because bobby had just been assassinated. and i had two roles. i mean, i was there be a delegation, but i was also in

the park with the protesters. and you could see the provocation on both sides of it. again, for chicago, if they think that it's persuasive to come and disrupt the convention, i don't know who they're persuading. and again, as you said so clearly, richard nixon won, and then when there was protests over the iraq war, george bush won. not as violent as what happened in chicago. so we just have to respect the dissension and also respect order and safety for our people. >> how does president biden address it to calm things down, to make sure that there isn't a melee outside of the convention, something that could hurt his chances for reelection? can the white house do that? is there a way to reach the protesters who are demanding the war in israel stop? they're demanding the u.s. stop funding israel.

>> there are different elements of the protests. >> that's true. >> i keep saying, what do you think about hamas as a terrorist organization. that's how our country regards them. what do you think about the protesters. you don't hear too much about that. they have a legitimate concern about the humanitarian disaster that is happening in gaza. president biden is a strong supporter as am i of israel. but he also has been, for a long time, as many of us have been, a strong supporter of two state solution. a two-state solution, respectful of the needs and aspirations of the palestinian people. he has been the strongest advocate for humanitarian assistance to palestinians which was resisted by many in the house of representatives on the republican side. he has been their champion, but for some reason, and i don't know what the motivation is, they decided this or that.

so that makes me question some of the motivation of some of them. it's spontaneous, organic, sincere, and to be respected. it also has to not be anti-semitic or anti-israel, which could be interpreted that way. they have a right to criticize israel as we all do. we also have a right to be safe as we do so. >> i want to ask you about former president donald trump. running for reelection again, mitch mcconnell was on "meet the press" over the weekend saying he stood by what he said about january 6th. stood by his vote for acquittal in the senate on the trial. he believes donald trump's responsible for january 6th, but he also says he's going to support the nominee for president, which is going to be donald trump. he thinks joe biden is too dangerous. bill barr is doing the same thing. he was on cnn, asked about the immunity argument that donald trump's lawyers are making that anything he does can be considered or a president does

can be considered an official act, even if that means assassinating an opponent. let me play a little bit about what bill barr believes donald trump would not do if he were elected again. >> i remember him being very mad about that. i don't remember him saying executing, but i wouldn't dispute it, you know. the president would lose his temper and say things like that. i doubt he would have actually carried it out. that's my feeling having worked for him and seeing him in action. i don't think he would go kill political rivals and things like that. >> he says he would hear donald trump say, you know, have someone executed, more than once in the interview. he doesn't believe he would ever do that. from your experience with donald trump, it's obviously different from his experience, rational? >> what do we care about what bill barr says. what we care about is what the candidate of the president of the united states says, and he says it with great bravado, he

says if you beat up the press, i will pay for your legal fees. so, again, those who care about the constitution and who have studied all of this have said how can you say that a president can commit an illegal act and not be accountable for it because he's no longer president. a person could do whatever he wants to do and resign. and then he's free off the hook. so this is really, i mean, if this court doesn't rule in the right way, we have real concerns about our democracy and the three branches of government. and we have to take a look at the courts. that's neither here nor their. it's not what bill barr's interpretation is, what's important is what donald trump has said. donald trump is a great threat to our democracy. what is a democracy, what are

the pillars, a free and independent press to tell the story. to keep everybody informed of what people are saying and doing. that transparency is essentially. independent judiciary. an independent judiciary when they're practically threatening on tv exposure of skroors in a -- jurors in the trial of a president. independent judiciary is about free and fair elections. what do they do but suppress the vote? there's nothing in his performance, if that's the word we'll use that would indicate he ever valued or did anything to support a democracy, and now on the ballot saying he should have immunity from whatever he might do, i mean, really, i have sympathy and respect for everybody who votes. i'm just glad people vote. i know some of them will always

reject those of us who might look different to them in leadership and the rest, and that's that. but there are those who have real legitimate concerns about immigration, globalization, innovation. and what does that mean for their job and their family's future, and we have to address those concerns. and joe biden is doing that. created 9 million jobs in his term in office. donald trump has the worst record of job loss of any president. we just have to make sure people know. >> that was a global pandemic. >> he had the worst record of any president. we've had other concerns in our country. if you want to be an apologist for donald trump, that may be your role, but it ain't mine. >> i don't think anybody can accuse me of that. >> no, but let me just say, as a speaker of the house, we put forth a $3 trillion bill, $3 trillion of investment in communities and the rest, and that stimulates the economy.

>> i want to ask one more question on speaker mike johnson, there's talk about a motion to vacate, if there is one, would you vote to help him save his seat. >> i'll take my lead from hakeem jeffries a great leader, he was so masterful in how he did what he had to do in order for us to get this vote for ukraine, israel, taiwan, all the elements of that legislation. so he's our leader, and he will make a determination. question is, how does the speaker, in addition to passing the bill, and i have given him credit, and i have gotten criticized for giving him credit, how does he honor the commitments that are involved there. but i'll leave that up to hakeem jeffries, a magnificent new leader in our party. he will give us our guidance on that. >> represents brooklyn. madame speaker, thank you. >> i was in brooklyn with him last night. >> thank you very much for joining us. it's really wonderful to see you in person. i appreciate it. >> thank you. donald trump goes back to court tomorrow.

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donald trump is back in court for his hush money trial, and back on the stand will be banker, gary farro. joining us now is lisa rubin. gary farro, he's not a grain.

he's a banker. tell us about gary farro and what we should expect tomorrow. >> he was michael cohen's banker at first republic bank. it was a private bank, meaning they don't deal with normal individuals, gary farro was careful to say you didn't have to be high net worth to be there. but it's a high touch surface which serves someone like michael cohen well. he had four or five accounts there in fall of 2015, october specifically. and contacted gary farro and said i need to open an llc account immediately. that is the account through which he paid stormy daniels. >> the alert that was put on the transaction. >> i don't know if i do. clearly you and i have read some of that same reporting. i don't believe that the person at first republic who notified the treasury department that there was something suspicious about that transaction has ever been named. whether it's gary farro or not, we don't know. i think he's there to authenticate documents and

records, including the application that michael cohen put in to open this account which contained a number of misrepresentations itself. >> why is it important to have him and rhona graff right before him authenticate particulars? >> well, usually you'd have attorneys agree upon certain documents that can be authenticated. it doesn't look like we've had that kind of agreement or meeting of the minds between the two sides. but these are documents that the prosecution's going to use to connect the dots. it might seem disjointed or not particularly narrative at this point in the trial, but some of those documents are going to come back and we'll see them tucked through with other witnesses as they tell their own version of events of the story. >> you have david pecker who details the catch and kill scheme as it's called. the agreement they came to to protect donald trump during the campaign. gets up to stormy daniels, says he wasn't going to pay this. michael cohen steps in to pay it. you have rhona graff come in and say donald trump signs invoices

personally. the invoices are attached to the checked. and then you have gary farro come in and say i was the one who did the wire transfer from michael cohen, this $130,000 payment. so eventually we're going to get to michael cohen who's going to say we did the catch and kill scheme. yeah, donald trump knew about it. yeah, i sent this money. yeah, donald trump signed my check. there was an invoice attached, and he knew what he was signing. >> there were going to be a bunch of people in between. for example, the checks went from the trump organization to the white house for donald trump to sign. they got attached to other business records. that may sound boring to many people, but that is part of the bread and butter of the d.a.'s case here in proving that trump falsified business records in service of the conspiracy na david pecker helped to establish last week. >> they're moving fast, does it seem like they're moving faster for six week? >> i think we're on track for six weeks or potentially longer. jury selection itself moved

fast. however, none of us know the full breadth of the witness list here and that's because prosecutors aren't being forthcoming with the press about it. to be fair, that's not usually what they do either. right? they usually tell defendants a couple of days before, here, again, we don't have that kind of cooperation. why? because donald trump has a history of endangering witnesses and therefore prosecutors have said on the record, we don't want to give him information if all he's going to do is torment people via social media. >> lisa rubin, thank you very much. coming up an alleged fake elector wins a national role with the rnc, what the arizona state senator was just tapped to do despite being indicted. ng in. okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete,

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just days after he was indicted for his alleged role in the 2020 fake elector scene. joining us now kpnx, brahm resnik. who is this guy? >> jake hoffman is a state senator. he is on the far right of the republican party. coincidentally, he will be replacing another indicted fake elector from arizona on the rnc, on the national committee, tyler bowyer. he was pretty closely involved in the fake elector scheme here and been a persistent storn in the side of governor katie hobbs holding up her appointees but the succession is interesting. he's replacing another indicted senator. and in this case, a lot of

connections there and one last thing i would add is that tyler bowyer and his time on the rnc tried to get the rnc to pay the defense costs, the looming defense costs of the fake electors before they were indicted last week. >> how representative of the republican party in arizona is the arizona rnc? >> well you have -- jake hoffman is a soon to be national committee man and the national committee woman is former representative liz harris, she was expelled by the republican controlled house over some weird shenanigans she tried to pull at an election hearing last year inviting someone as a witness who spoke about housing defraud involving mexican cartels falsely implicated the mormon church and the governor. it was just bizarre. so bizarre that her republican colleagues turned on her. so both are the extreme of the party here.

i think it is safe to say they're the kind of republicans who turn off the mainstream republicans that, kari lake, the candidate believes she will need to win her senate race. so it is an odd choice. i point out liz harris won by just 12 votes, and jake hoffman won by 99 votes out of 1200 cast. so pretty close races there. >> with the abortion front and center in arizona after the civil war era ban went back into effect, or was allowed to go back into the effect, there was a repeal in the house, how much of that is affecting arizona voters and do you see it potentially peeling off what would have otherwise been republican voters in arizona? >> it has the potential to peel off republican voters, specifically women, independent voters, specifically women. it is become a huge issue here right now. and i'll point out the repeal isn't done yet. our state senate, jake hoffman,

a member, is scheduled to vote on wednesday to give its approval or disapproval to the repeal. they need to vote for it in order for the repeal to go to governor katie hobbs for her signature. that might be in doubt, given what happened in the house last week. a very rank orrous section with republicans in the minority, against the repeal, turning on republican colleagues. and punishing one of them for his vote. for the appeal. so wednesday should be very interesting. i keep an eye on that. >> we'll watch out for that. everybody in the arizona state house is up for re-election come november. thank you for joining us today. and back with me on the campus of columbia, is correspondent antonia hilton. i see tents behind you. it looks like no movement at all. >> reporter: no movement at all. these students are still here in

the encampment and they are all over this campus right now. there are a couple different protests going on. there is one pro-palestinian protest to my left that is for student workers, people involved in a union here on campus. there is a group of students gathering over there. there is also a pro-israeli student engaged with students over there and then a core group of activists behind me in the encampment who has been chanting now for hours. this is showing no signs of stopping any time soon. we're two hours past the dead line set by the president, the students and faculty that i've been texting with, say that this shows that there wasn't much teeth in what she sent out. they not only sent the letter to the entire community, but distributed flyers and asks them to put their signatures promising they would be out by 2 or risk suspension.

and for them not to come by to engage in a dialogue with the students. there are no columbia university police. there are no nypd here. it is sending the signal to the tunds that they are -- they are winning and their movement is growing. and part of the students don't sleep here and they have come and be marching in a circle around the central part of the campus to show their classmates solidarity, to show support and they're going to watch and see what might have happened to them this afternoon. and so, from what i'm hearing, students are planning to sleep her overnight again in this encampment and we'll see what home brings. >> when is commencement. >> may 15th. a lot could change between now and then but i get the feeling from staff and students that i speak to, that there is a desire for the encampment to make it to that point. one student even raised the possibility of why can't they just do commencement and deal

with our encampment being here on the lawn. let the people who come and visit columbia see we have this protest that is ongoing and hear our message. that is clearly not what the administration wants. they made very clear this morning in the notice they sent out that commencement is going forward and in particular because this is a community of kids, who didn't get their typical graduation in 2020, for most of them they were virtual or had sort of strange outdoor graduations that were more than six feet apart from friends and classmates. that is not what they want to do here. they want to have the typical commencement here at columbia, one way or another. >> the covid class doesn't want to have a virtual graduation again. thank you very much. and that is going to do it for me today. "deadline: white house" starts right now. hi there, everyone. welcome to monday. it is allap